The Tony Snow/Tar Baby Controversy

[AspenRose]

Poll question: The Tony Snow/Tar Baby Controversy

OK...I have seen a few black DUers express offense at the term. I think what is more bothersome to me is the white outrage and protestations that anyone should consider offense at a term that originally didn't have racist connotations (but certainly does now).

What do you think of all this....(and I'm directing this mainly at black folks). Would you take equal offense if you knew of a black person who used the term as well (in its original context, not directed towards another black person)?

And for those who care, I am of mixed heritage. I find it offensive.

[Connie_Corleone]

1. It depends on the context. At the same time...

I'm offended by some of the white members on DU who feel it's their duty to give black people a history lesson on where the term came from because we're too "ignorant" to understand it's historical context and we're just being irrational for thinking it's racist.

I don't know how many times I have to write that white racists changed the meaning of the term into something derogatory to black people before they get it through their thick skulls.

As far as Tony Snow is concerned, I don't think the term was used in a racist way. That doesn't mean I think Tony Snow isn't racist.

[Karenina]

3. Hear, Hear!!!

In ALL the HUNDREDS of posts on this topic du jour I have YET to see ONE POST offer a transcript of the exchange.

Tony Snow IS a racist and his use of the term, in his position and on camera, was at best IDIOTIC and at worst a "wink, wink" to the *base.

[AspenRose]

4. I agree.

This whole exercise was a good illustration of why some blacks grow very tired of white democrats and their attitudes.

[qanda]

2. Being a dark-skinned black person

And having my own people call me tar baby was enough to have me despise the term. People can call me ignorant or whatever, I don't like to hear that term used and I really don't care about the context.

[AspenRose]

5. I am really sorry.

It pains me that colorism still needs to be overcome in the black community. We infamously tear down our own.

Have you read "The Color Complex?" Good read.

(Should be required reading for white liberals who need to get a clue WHY a good percentage of blacks find 'tar baby' offensive, regardless of context.)

I can say that I spoke to some ladies who are members of a Divine Nine sorority about this topic and THEY were offended, too.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. I am offended by it.

I also understand that Snow probably meant no harm when he used it. He shouldn't have said it in a public setting like that. I cringed when Ross Perot blurted that out during the presidential debates back in 1991. It's not used that often except every now and then. I was really surprised at Tony Snow for using those words knowing that there are people out there sensitive to it. I hear he also teared up at that press conference after talking about beating his cancer (which is a very good thing). Let's hope he doesn't continue to talk about his beaten cancer each time since it will be sensitive to those out there that haven't beaten it.

As far those DUers outraged that some of us black folks are offended by it, they can kiss off.

[Karenina]

7. I have a contrary view

in my belief that Snow was playing code word games. He also said, "Let's try to segregate the stories here." Again technically correct but hardly common usage. His associations and writings peg him as a racist. He's just trying to be "cute."

[Connie_Corleone]

8. Yeah. I thought about that earlier today.

You might be right. Even though there are white DU members on here who say they heard the term all the time meaning a sticky situation, I've ALWAYS heard the term used in a derogatory way.

It's certainly not something that's used a lot in this day and age. And I did catch that "segregate" comment too after hearing the press conference.

[kitkatrose]

9. ....

Even though there are white DU members on here who say they heard the term all the time meaning a sticky situation, I've ALWAYS heard the term used in a derogatory way.

I find that hard to believe. I mean, I'm only 20 and grew up in Memphis, and I know that the term is racist. Sheesh, when I listened to Sade's song Tar Baby, I had to ask my mother what it meant and got the full explanation then. I personally haven't heard the term used amongst my peers (thankfully) but if you were a Boomer in the South, I find it difficult that you'd escape hearing tar baby used as a perjorative.

[Connie_Corleone]

10. I found it hard to believe too.

[bliss_eternal]

18. ...as they can about most of what

they don't "understand" of what is offensive to people of color. :mad:

[ismnotwasm]

11. I saw your poll yesterday

So I asked a Black friend who does not frequent this board what the first thing that popped into his head was when I said "Tarbaby"
His response? "hanging black folks"
He then went into a rant similar to what I've seen here about whites telling minorities what they should think and how they should feel about things. So mad he used words he doesn't normally use. So I didn't vote in your poll but you could add one more "finds it offensive"

I'm still stunned about the whole issue. I-who grew up in the Northwest--Seattle to be exact, If I, I who grew up in so-called liberal land have heard this used as a racial slur and was well aware that it is used as a racial slur, I just can't fathom those who say that they're unaware of it's use in that manner. To me, it was common knowledge. Just as common as knowledge about other well known but more often used ones.

And If one was unaware, why is defending an word with the obnoxious and hurtful history that one has have any kind of priority?

[Brewman_Jax]

12. It's always been meant to be offensive

and I saw the thread, and the usual excuses were put forth. :eyes: It's too bad defending racists is...defended on the board.

[Karenina]

13. What absolutely boggles the mind

is that the racist Duers are defending so vehemently is the one whose JOB it is to blow smoke up their asses. It's kind like poor whites' unshakeable loyalty to wealthy repukes. :crazy:

Frankly, I think they are ALL trying to preserve "plausible deniability" for their own closeted racism.

[Meldread]

14. I'm white, and I...

...can't believe how many people actually are taking this bastards side. I grew up in the south, and I've heard the term used many times - and never once was it NOT used in a racist context. I didn't vote in the poll because I am not black, but I found it offensive all the same, and I find it even more offensive that people on these boards would defend it.

I didn't realize that the black community here on the boards was more or less in the same boat as the LGBT community. I am sorry to see it, but I send everyone around here a hug from the LGBT forum. :hug:

[AspenRose]

15. And a hug back to you too....thank you

:hug:

We need to focus, stay strong and united.

[fortyfeetunder]

16. Tony Snow is allegedly an intelligent man

Guess he lacks cultural sensitivity, and that is scary because of his journalism career (but then, WH hired him away from Faux News). So I wouldn't defend him for not one nanosecond, he should have known better, even in the context of the transcript.

[itzamirakul]

17. I, too, am of mixed heritage...

as I believe that most African Americans whose history traces back to slavery in America are. Although I can identify in appearance with either of my backgrounds, I deliberately CHOOSE to identify myself as African American and I have to say that I have LOVED every minute of my black experience, even during the hardest times, including segregation and Jim Crow. Just growing up and living in the vibrant culture of African Americans has been exciting and rewarding as I look back over the decades. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I don't think we can count in black people with heritages in the Caribbean or other countries because their cultural backgrounds are quite different and the Tar Baby story would probably not have the same sting for them. I think you have to understand the cruelties of the American south in order to understand the impact of the Tar Baby reference.

I really don't think we will find large numbers of pure blooded Africans among us...but interestingly enough, just a few weeks ago, Dr. Gates did a study on Oprah and a few other celebrities to see if any traces of race other than African could be found in their DNA.(This was on PBS, if I remember correctly). Only a few of them had what seems to be pure African blood lines. Most in the study had European heritage in their DNA.