I need some good vibes for my kitty Benny.

[Cleita]

About a year ago, Benny started attacking me shredding my skin on my arms and legs with his teeth and claws. This wounds often would get infected. I took him to the vet to figure out what to do and they discovered that he had a thyroid problem so they put him on medication to correct it. He is really hard to give medicine to and impossible to give pills to, so they gave me a gel that I put in his ears. So far, so good. The attacks stopped for about a year until last Sunday and he viciously attacked me in the garden while I was weeding. I don't know if the motion of me pulling with the trowel set him off. My employer is a doctor and told me that I really needed to take care of him because as an elderly person, my immune system isn't as strong as a younger person's. I took him to the vet who recommended putting him down, but I just couldn't bring myself to cut his life short. He just turned eight years old this April. So they put him on anti-depressants. I have given him two days worth so far and it has been a trial. The medication is a syrup that I deliver orally and it must be very nasty tasting because he smacks his mouth and foams at the mouth when I give it to him. He goes berserker for about a minute or two. The medication starts working in about an hour and then I have a zoned out kitty who doesn't have enough sense to come out of the rain or even seems to recognize me. I'm really at my wits end with this. I just don't know what to do.

[Sanity Claws]

1. Oh my!

I'll send vibes to both you and Benny.
Please post this over in the Pets section; maybe someone there will have some idea of what is going on with Benny.
I wonder if anyone in this section is or knows a pet psychic who could help.

[Cleita]

6. Thanks, I didn't even know that we had a pet's section.

I revised this a bit and post it over there.

[Dover]

2. Oh Cleita, what a dilemma.

Perhaps you can find him a new home and inform the new owner why you can't keep him.
There are also cat rescue groups who take problem pets off people's hands. Do a google
or kitty rescue places in your area.

[Cleita]

7. Thanks Dover. Excellent idea if I'm at last resort with this. n/t

[Dover]

12. It sounded like your doc felt you were there..."last resort"

I'm glad you are looking into alternatives to putting him down. Sometimes solutions
present themselves we hadn't thought of. But please do take care of yourself as well.

Having just lost my own "Benny" these sorts of heartbreaking and difficult decisions are very near the surface and raw for me.

:hug: and love to the both of you.

[Why Syzygy]

3. Oh, gosh, Cleita..

How sad. I remember your earlier posts about this. I can't imagine how traumatic that is.
Is he still taking the thyroid medication? Have you spoken to the vet about the current side effects?
It doesn't sound like it agrees with him. Are there any natural herbs he can be given?

For yourself, I can recommend Bactine spray. In all my years at flower shops, I found that it relieves the pain from cuts, stings from thorns, and aids healing faster than any other product (and fights infection).
http://www.bactine.com/

Also, GSE is always an excellent immune booster.

I hope he recovers.

[Cleita]

9. I use various medications to fight the infections and fortunately working

for a doctor he's good about giving me prescriptions for anti-biotics.

[MorningGlow]

4. I'm so sorry to hear this, Cleita

I wish I had a suggestion for you. But I will be watching this thread closely, because one of our fuzzies may have the same problem: she's been peeing and pooping everywhere but in the litter box (thank goodness for hardwood floors), and she has no physical ailments. We just had her tested for hyperthyroidism--still waiting for the results. If she doesn't have a thyroid problem, then it's psychological (she's always been a nervous wreck), and anti-depressants are in her future too.

One thing I may recommend--as a thyroid sufferer myself, I am aware that people's (and I'd assume kitties') bodies change, and the thyroid dose may have to be adjusted. Humans with thyroid problems are usually checked every six months. Perhaps, instead of anti-depressants, your vet could retest Benny for his thyroid levels, and if he needs more, increase his dose of thyroid meds?

Sending light to you and Benny in the meantime... :hug:

[Cleita]

8. The problem behavior in your kitty seems to stem from something she

is trying to get your attention about. I have had kitties who did that to me and I had to figure out what the problem was. When I did the problem behavior stopped. Benny does get his thyroid checked regularly and his dosage seems to be right for him. They took his blood work when I went in to the vets.

[MorningGlow]

11. Oh, then I hate to venture a suggestion

that it might be something more serious with Benny. My cousin's cat had a brain aneurysm and it attacked her and her children. I do hope that's not the case with Benny.

The reason the vet is checking Clover's thyroid is because she has lost a little weight but eats nonstop, has intestinal distress (I won't go into the gory details), etc. But I strongly suspect her behavior is solely psychological.

[Shallah Kali]

14. lost weight but eats nonstop w/intestinal distress - was she checked for parasites?

and/or given a worming just in case? One of my cats when we first got her had the most horrendous gaseous emissions along with almost-diarrhea. First check up was automatic worm medicine which helped alot. Vet didn't think she needed it but agreed on next set of kitten shots to give her another dose after which no more D and no more rumbling tummy and gaseous emissions.

another thought - these days it seems everyone including some pets get food allergies. My ex=neighbor would buy special food for her dog that was ostrich and sweet potato or else it was uncontrolable D. I wonder do cats get celiac like humans? ....

[MorningGlow]

15. You know, I don't know if they checked for worms

I would guess that they didn't, because she's an indoor cat and we've had her for many years. She doesn't even WANT to go outside.

The vet did say we should probably switch to a non-grain dry food to see if that makes a difference, although she didn't mention celiac specifically. I think she's had intestinal problems since we started on a new dry (it doesn't bother the other two cats), and the vet said that the new conventional wisdom in the vet community is to accept that cats are solely carnivores and don't get on as well with grains as they do a meat-based dry. So that's also on the list of things to try to help her out.

[Dover]

5. Has it been determined with certainty that this is a physical rather than psychological/emotional

personality issue? I know it's difficult to know the answer to that queston, and very often it's
both.

[Cleita]

10. The physical thyroid problem does cause personality changes and the therapy seemed

to be working up to now, but the vet thinks it's also a personality problem because of his genes.

[Shallah Kali]

13. Does Benny attack after seeing other cats?

My family had a cat who would attack when he couldn't get at another cat he saw when outside on his leash. This cat wasn't allowed to run free because he would go and sun himself in the middle of the road and almost got hit a couple of times. After he shredded my Mother a few times when she went to bring him inside for the evening we kept him inside. I think they call this behavior displaced aggression.

I am and will continue to send vibes to both you and Benny :grouphug:

[Cleita]

16. No, his attacks are totally out of the blue. Sometimes I think it might be

motion, like pulling on a trowel, or even walking. But sometimes when sleeping by my side on the couch, he has suddenly turned around and sunk his teeth into me.

[Why Syzygy]

17. Do your roommates

have interactions with him?

Every once in awhile, Boogie gets a little aggressive with his teeth. I figure he is upset with me about something. I wouldn't call it "vicious", though. Last time, I did have to give a little shout, which got him right off of that.

[Cleita]

18. I live alone, although I live on the same property as family.

They have the big house and I have the MIL trailer on the back of their property. He does interact with them, their dogs and my neighbors. So far he hasn't done anything anti-social with them, however, he has a really bad reputation at the vets because he's so hard to handle.

[Ino]

28. A suggestion about the biting...

Don't pull away from the bite. That's what prey does, and will make him just clamp down harder. Rather, push TOWARDS his mouth. It doesn't hurt the cat, just surprises him into letting go. If you do that consistently, he may think twice before he bites.

I have a problem cat like yours. She would claw/bite me for no reason. I decided she HAD to let me trim her very sharp, hooked claws or she was going to the Humane Society. She won't take treats, so I had to use her regular food to train her. My plan was to hold her paw briefly and give her one piece of kibble afterwards. If she let me hold each paw 3 times, she would get her whole meal. I wore heavy leather gloves to protect myself. If she hissed, spit, swatted, bit, or ran away, I simply put her food away and tried again in a few hours. Well, it was 2 days before she let me hold each paw 3 times! I know... she was tamed with hunger. But better to go hungry a couple of days than to surely be euthanized at the Humane Society. I held her paws 3x at every meal for a couple days, then moved on to squeezing a toe to unsheath the claw, then doing that while holding the clippers near her paw, then finally actually cutting it. I still trim her claws when needed before she eats, and she never puts up a fuss. I don't use the gloves any more.

Still, she would try to claw/bite me when I reached to pick something up next to her, or suddenly while I was petting her, or sometimes just walking by her. I was very afraid of this cat! Then one day I thought, "For a cat who acts like she hates me, she sure spends a lot of time around me. I think she likes me more than she wants to let on." The thought completely changed my attitude towards her. I started talking to her and treating her like a cat who likes me, being matter-of-fact about petting her or picking up something next to her, rather than hesitant and fearful. It was amazing to see the transformation in her after my change of attitude! Now she cuddles with me on the sofa, and I can pick things up that are next to her, pet her without fear.

She still has her "moments" but they're half-hearted rather than vicious. I know the signs (whipping tail, etc.) and just leave her be. I never use my hand to shoo her away from something or off the table -- always hold something (remote control, book) to gently push her away.

I don't know why she became this way. She was sweet as a kitten. I try to make her feel secure and loved. I try to project an attitude of "I accept that you don't want to (insert whatever), but sometimes you have to do such-and-such if we are going to live together." I assume she wants to be friends but just doesn't know how or she's afraid. It has helped a great deal.

Have you ever tried playing with your cat with a laser pointer or a cat tease (a pole with a string that has a little piece of material or feathers attached at the end)? It may satisfy his hunting instinct... tracking & attacking moving "prey" rather than your hand/foot motions... or at least tire him out so he's less aggressive to you.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. One thing to try

might be Rescue Remedy. You could put it on his food or even spray it around him. My co-worker uses it on all her animals.

[Kookaburra]

21. Rescue Remedy Works!

And it doesn't make them drunk and disoriented. Just one drop will do it for a cat -- don't give too much because it has alcohol in it. Amazing the difference it makes.

[Cleita]

22. Hi ayesha. Where do you get the rescue remedy, the pet store or the vet?

[Why Syzygy]

25. Rescue Remedy

is purchased at the health food store. It's a Bach Remedy.

http://www.bachflower.com/

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

It's a homeopathic preparation. You can just put a few drops in Benny's water dish.
I used a different Hom. Rx with a kitty, and have used RR for lots of animals.
The Bach remedies were discovered by Dr. Bach.

Several years ago, 'Bonnie' was very clingy, always wanting to be right up on me. Not normal for cats.
I used Pulsatilla in her water, and she normalized.

(sorry Ayesha . I was here, so I answered)

I have a couple of great RR stories. One involves a friend of mine who had come back to the state to go to court to terminate her daughter's biological father's parental rights. He was in prison for the third time for a very bad crime. When we got to the courtroom, she was shaking and crying. He had asked for a jury trial. I thought to give her RR in her cup of water. In a few minutes she calmed down, and said, "I don't know what that was you gave me, but I feel completely calm". The case turned out well because the criminal bargained with the attorney before entering the court room, and we didn't have to even see him.

Another time a friend and I were in Vegas and had driven out to Hoover damn. I was driving, and I HATE mountain roads. I had urged her to hurry during the day so our trip could be completed before darkness fell. She had done some things to deliberately delay us, and I was ticked off and nervous about the drive. When we got to the road down to the damn, I 'remembered' the RR in my purse and just dropped some in my mouth. I became completely calm, and was able to drive and enjoy her and the trip.

[Why Syzygy]

26. .

dupe

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. A health food store

It is a Bach Flower Remedy and can be used by humans as well as pets.

[northernlights]

20. oh, no...

I hope you find a fix for Benny soon. :hug: for you and :hug: for Benny.

[MagickMuffin]

23. I'm sorry your Benny is having aggression problems

:hug:

I haven't ever experienced this type of behavior. Although I have always had that concern since ALL of my cats over the years have been brought home from me finding them. I worried about their breeding and whether they might be inbred kitties. But I guess they always considered that they had a pretty good home and have never attacked me, and I'm not implying that you haven't given Benny a good home.

It seems the ASHA group has some good suggestions. I myself am at a loss as to what could be wrong with Benny. :shrug:

I hope you find a solution soon for both you and Benny.

[MorningGlow]

24. Cleita--just talked to my vet about our problem kitty

Turns out there's nothing physically wrong with Clover, so we have to focus on her psychological issues. But anyway the reason I'm posting again is because the vet also recommended Rescue Remedy. I mentioned you were having problem with Benny and she asked if your vet has tried lessening the dose of antidepressant so he's not a zombie...?

[SheilaT]

29. I have never had problems with

my cats behaving aggressively, so I can't address that. But I can make a suggestion about medicine.

One of my cats is something of a druggie: she really likes her catnip. Recently I've had to give her medication, which she's not too crazy about, so I IMMEDIATELY give her some catnip. She very quickly associated the medicine with catnip and was somewhat more cooperative about taking the medicine.

I do hope you are able to solve this problem.

[Cleita]

30. Update. Thanks everyone for their helpful suggestions and kind words.

However, we are still in limbo. Once he realized that he was going to get this medication every day, he fought it with all his little furry might. I had to stop it because it was delivered orally and I have to admit finally that oral medication is impossible to give to him. My neighbor and I had to hold him down and it actually scared him. He hid from me all day yesterday and wouldn't come out and wouldn't eat so that treatment is off the table. The vets suggestion to wrap him in a towel like a burrito just isn't working with Benny. There is no way anyone is making him into a burrito and neighbor and I have the wounds to prove it. I'm not complaining because this time I was asking for it. I'm going to go to a different vet that specializes in cats when I get an appointment. He's coming around today but still looks at me with suspicion. I guess people this is going to take time. I'm definitely trying that Rescue Remedy as soon as I can drive into the city where the nearest health food store is located.

[demgrrrll]

31. Hi Cleita, you are such a good soul for taking care of a kitty that has

some issues. Many people would not go to the lengths you have gone to providing care for Benny. I have a cat that can become aggressive, he used to run at us from across the room and would bite our legs and urinate on us. He still urinates on us when he is not on his meds, unpleasant but I digress. He was very hard to med until we dropped him in a pillow case with just his little head poking out. The burrito thing is fine, tried that with towels but they can fight their way out of the wrap. The vet gave our cat xanax or some xanax derivative which works like a charm to quell his anxiety. Just a thought. Might not work for you. I also like the rescue remedy idea.

[Why Syzygy]

32. Cleita ..

Glad you're going to take him to a special vet, and try the Rescue Remedy. I feel that he will get over this.

Out of curiosity and to see if it reminds you of anything, I dug up your original post on this.
(I sure like talking about my cat! :blush: ) (I was drinking a lot in those days.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=30931

[Sanity Claws]

33. Oh, Cleita

This sounds like a real long-lasting problem and that it started even before his hyperthyroidism was diagnosed. You have done a lot for this cat. Is he a good hunter? Maybe he would be better off as a barn cat.

[Cleita]

35. He is a hunter, but not so much lately. He's getting old.

Actually, he's too tame for that and there is the risk of coyotes when they are running lose like barn cats do. The girl who used to keep horses in the pasture behind my house used to get barn cats to catch the mice that were eating her horses' feed and she was always losing them to coyotes.

[Callie McAllie]

37. There is something to this idea, though

I heard a well known author/instructor once talk about his sick kitty. The vet gave him a very sad prognosis, with not long to live. The author decided to put his cat on a health regimen.

What would be health food for a cat, he wondered. Mice! So he went to the pet store and bought some mice, the kind you would feed to snakes. He gave one to the cat every day, and that animal perked up and lived many happy months after that. He got more exercise, chasing the mice, and even though he still died eventually, he was very happy in his last months.

So, mice may be the answer for your kitty too. Just in the same way that some children get hyperactive when they eat too much sweets or refined flour. Maybe what your cat needs to help him settle down is some health food and the additional exercise of chasing the mouse each day.

[Cleita]

34. LOL!

Wow, was it that far back? I think that this is when they discovered his thyroid problem and he was pretty okay as long as he got his thyroid medicine, which he doesn't object to because I rub it in his ears while giving him treats. If only they made the medication to taste like treats, he would take them with no problem but he hates anything administered to him orally.

[Why Syzygy]

36. Cleita, here is an article someone posted in the Pets group

http://www.startribune.com/pet_central/11269221.html?elr=KArks8Da_3D:ayE7UeDa0D:ayE7Ueyc+D3aUUr

Don't know if it applies to Benny.