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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 03:16 PM
Original message
I'm posting this thread about impeachment for another DUer who doesn't
have a star, Independent_Liberal

Hey there Cleita,

I wanted to know if you've seen the new impeachment ad that's to run in California. It was put together by the National Impeachment Network and you can view the video at www.impeachtime.org The group is looking for donations. I'm encouraging folks to spread it around and donate to them. I liked the fact that they used video of Vincent Bugliosi's testimony before the House Judiciary Committee in it. That was very dramatic.

Right now, I'm trying to direct my good energy into the restoration of the rule of law and accountability. I recommended the start of an astrology forum thread related to this. I would post it myself, but I can't because I haven't donated yet. I suggest everyone focus their energy on accountability and envision the start of impeachment hearings this month to prevent pardons and lead the way for eventual prosecution of Bush officials for war crimes, torture, etc.

Focusing on this as a group would be helpful.

Yours truly, for impeachment, peace and accountability,

Independent_Liberal


I'm all for it. Whatever it takes to bring this present administration to JUSTICE. That's all we are asking for, not revenge, but justice for all who have died, and become impoverished by this administration. What do you say ASAHG group?
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. karma
Karma will deal with this in any case. At this point I think I would just wait until next year to have hearings on all the crap that has gone on. I really doubt that Obama wants to go the route of impeaching Bush now. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, but I think this would cause lot of trouble for the incoming Obama administration. Like Obama, I tend toward being pragmatic.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree on karma but I see nothing wrong with helping it along.
These are criminals who have done irreparable damage to innocents and justice is the only thing that will start to make things right. I believe that the universe may be waiting for us to ask.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think it's important that we, as a nation, bring ourselves into the process of
repudiating what the Bush/Cheney cabal stood for, and that we be seen repudiating that cabal and their actions. I think that "helping karma" is a good way to do that. I think there should be a conscious repudiation of their evil as part of our healing process.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. we don't have time for impeachment now
I hope there are a whole lot of hearings on the torture issue soon after Obama takes office (as well as other things).
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. If we don't have time for it right now, we never will have time for it.
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 01:30 PM by Cleita
It has to happen sooner rather than later or we will be back to square one in 2012. The neo-cons are already working behind the scenes with their chess pieces moving their people into place to take over again. This forced retirement of Mel Martinez with Jeb Bush announcing that he will run for his senate seat is no coincidence. My guides are telling me so. Although I have said it on the GD forum, you know I can't say how I got the information there so people are not registering the importance of the knight being moved into place after allowing one of their pawns to be killed to open that space up. It's time to discredit the Bushes and any that will come after them like the next generation by putting George W. Bush on trial for his crimes. It will bring out the fact that the whole family is corrupt and should never be allowed into politics again.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I suggest you let it go
Mainly because this is not going to happen.

I know that there is no such thing as time, but there is such a thing as a calendar. I agree with your guides about Jeb Bush, but that doesn't change that fact that we are practically in the middle of December, and there is no possible feasible way to have impeachment hearings at this late date.

Obama does not want to go that route anyway. And if the Democrats tried to impeach Bush now, it would be like mass political suicide. You might as well say hello to Jeb Bush in four years.

But no, we do need to face the truth, as soon as practically possible. For me, torture is at the top of the list.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. For your information, any impeachment introduced at this late date
will be to the new session of Congress, since the old Congress is pretty much cleaning up old business and will be leaving soon. Whatever will be done before the inauguration will only be the initials steps, most likely subpoenas to a hearing that may not convene for months. Obama will be President then, but most likely not involved because hearings take months and even years, so not to worry. It just has to begin sooner and not later or it won't happen at all. We as a nation need the cleansing or there will be that festering wound that won't go away making us weaker and weaker as the wound's infection gains power.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Post # 9 was in response to itsjustme. I agree with you 1000% Cleita, that we need
the cleansing you speak of. We need, as citizens and as a nation, to repudiate the actions of this criminal administration, both for our souls, and for the future health of the nation. We need to show the world that many Americans (most, I hope) do not support the criminal and repugnant actions of the Bush/Cheney cabal and the neocons.

I was making the point, to itsjustme, that while impeachment ain't gonna happen at this point, there is surely legal standing to sue large numbers of individuals from this criminal regime, no matter how it drags out in court(s).
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't mean impeachment, I mean pursuing lawsuits. There must be MANY charges
that could be brought against individuals in the Bush/Cheney cabal, and many areas in which lawsuits could be brought.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. this I agree with n/t
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sending for Truth & Justice ASAP in form serves the highest good of all
Whether it is impeachment, the Hague or some other form I don't care as long as the truth is known and justice is served.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. That's the outcome to work for! Truth being known and justice served. May it be so. nt
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Callie McAllie Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. I would so like to see them impeached
But I'm afraid there just really isn't physically enough days left in the lame duck session to accomplish this.

Articles of impeachment have already been introduced by Dennis Kucinich, I believe. Congress just has to act on them, but they have to do it before the end of this session. They won't.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Apparently he can still be impeached after he leaves office.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:31 PM by Cleita
Dennis can reintroduce the articles to the new Congress. It's never been done but there is no statute that says it can't be done. Read this.

http://impeachforpeace.org/impeach_bush_blog/?p=4628

They recommend that it be done in the first 20 days of the new Congress before he leaves office but I also read some place else that it can be done after he leaves office.


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Naomi Wolf
states that a coup took place in October this year, and that we are technically a "police state" this very moment. She said the only remedy is to arrest the coup cabal, and calls on district attorneys to do so, as they, and citizens, are the only ones with that authority. Congress will do nothing. They are complicit. She quotes Brad Sherman (D) who states Congress was blackmailed into signing the bailout, effectively a "private bank" for the president (unrestricted funds), with threat of martial law. Of course the special squadron was deployed in the US. I'm still fuzzy on the date details.

This is gripping stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XgkeTanCGI&NR=1
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks votes.
You always have the right information at your fingertips. It's becoming apparent to me that Congress is very complicit in this wholesale robbery and commissions of treason by this cabal. The only thing we have left is any ability we have to manifest this happening of their being brought to justice and made accountable.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hey Cleita, I have a star now.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 11:55 PM by Independent_Liberal
Don't know who gave it to me. Anyway, I'm glad I'm now able to post in this forum and in some other groups I wasn't able to before.

Thanks for posting this thread. And yes, I believe we should focus on various forms of accountability, including impeachment, prosecution, civil suits, the Hague, etc. Focusing on any or all is a good thing.

I suggest focusing on directing your good energy towards people like Dennis Kucinich, Robert Wexler, and other Congress members who have supported accountability. You can also direct this energy towards prosecutors like Patrick Fitzgerald, Juan Guerra, Vincent Bugliosi, etc. Like me, I'm trying to envision a scenario in which Kucinich and other Congress members introduce more impeachment resolutions, the Supreme Court makes a significant ruling against the cabal, more officials are charged, contempt citations are enforced, and perhaps Bush and Cheney are forced to resign and Pelosi takes over to oversee the transition for the final couple weeks.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hey there congratulations and
I'm happy you can participate now.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks and yes...
I'm glad I can participate now. I just wanted to revive this thread because there was something I needed to get off my chest. I wanted to know what anyone is sensing in regards to the Blagojevich investigation. DUer autorank sent me some articles and it's making me think about Rove's Illinois connections and BushCo's targeting of Fitzgerald.

I'd like you to have a look at this:

Archive for Thursday, April 24, 2008
No one should be shocked that Fitzgerald was targeted
By John Kass
April 24, 2008


http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/apr/24/news/chi...



Some of you may be shocked with Wednesday?s news out of the Tony Rezko corruption trial that frightened boss hog Illinois Republicans reportedly reached out to Bush White House political guru Karl Rove, asking Rove to rid them of troublesome federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.


That is, if you get your news elsewhere, you?d be shocked.


But if you?re a loyal reader of this column, you knew about the Illinois Combine-Rove connection years ago, and their seething antipathy toward Fitzgerald.


You readers knew all about the Combine, and that Republican bosses Big Bob Kjellander (pronounced $hell-and-der) and Big Bill Cellini did not appreciate the feds poking around, especially in the Democratic administration of Gov. Rod ?The Unreformer? Blagojevich.


Neither Cellini nor Kjellander have been charged with a federal crime ?yet.
In the meantime, Cellini has been named as ?Co-schemer A? and Kjellander as" Individual K? in Rezko court documents. These Springfield Republicans made millions with the Chicago machine Democratic governor.


In federal court Wednesday, prosecutors told Judge Amy St. Eve that they wished to call another admittedly corrupt political fixer, Ali Ata, to the witness stand to tell the jury a fascinating tale.


Ata ?had conversations with Mr. Rezko about the fact that Mr. Kjellander was working with Karl Rove to have Mr. Fitzgerald removed,? Assistant U.S. Atty Carrie Hamilton told the court.


Kjellander ? the former treasurer of the Republican National Committee who is helping plan the Republican National Convention in Minnesota ? is a friend of Cellini.
Kjellander has made $4.5 million in questionable fees through investments of state pension funds so he can afford to place Democratic chocolate truffles on the pillows of every Republican delegate.


Kjellander denies he ever talked to Rove about Fitzgerald. And Rove?s lawyer, Robert Luskin, denies it too.


?Karl has known Kjellander for many years,? Luskin told the Tribune?s Mark Silva, ?but does not recall him or anyone else arguing for Fitzgerald's removal. And is very certain that he didn?t take any steps to do that, or have any conversations with anyone in the White House ? or in the Justice Department ? about doing anything like that.?


St. Eve has not yet ruled on whether Ata may testify about the Kjellander lobbying effort.
However, she has ruled that another witness, Steven Loren, may not testify that Big Bill Cellini told him ?Bob Kjellander?s job is to take care of the U.S. attorney.?


Take care of the U.S. attorney? That?s so Illinois Combine isn?t it?


What that means is open to interpretation, so we called Mr. Cellini and got no response. I called his friends to see what they thought about Cellini drawing federal heat.


Naturally, I called Michael Marchese, Mayor Richard Daley?s favorite developer outside of the 11th Ward. Marchese is Cellini?s close business partner in so many gigantic

government backed deals that they?re impossible to count, and I valued Marchese?s input. Sadly, Marchese wasn?t around.


I even called the reservations desk at Gibson's on Rush, on the good chance Marchese and Cellini were having a quiet lunch together, but no Marchese.


You?re welcome to believe that Rove and Kjellander had no conversations about Fitzgerald.


You?re also welcome to believe that the Bush White House really didn?t try to get rid of other federal prosecutors who dared investigate Republicans for corruption, although the record declares otherwise.


You?re also welcome to believe that the White House never encouraged former aide ?Scooter? Libby to commit perjury to shield his superiors from Fitzgerald's investigation into who leaked the identity of a CIA officer.


Or that by commuting Libby?s sentence, President Bush didn?t make a fool out of every Republican who ever said the phrase ?rule of law? in criticizing the perjury of President Bill Clinton.


You?re also welcome to believe that it was pure coincidence that Edward McNally, the former criminal lawyer to George Ryan, was installed by the Bush Justice Department as acting U.S. attorney of the Southern District of Illinois, in time to testify at Ryan?s trial.
McNally testified that Ryan was badly treated by the FBI. But he forgot to mention something. He had a whopping financial conflict of interest, owing thousands of dollars to Ryan?s law firm, which was collecting the debt from another business failure.


You could believe all of this, and if so, you?re also welcome to believe that if Kjellander and Rove and Cellini sprouted wings, they would fly happily across the sea, into the setting sun.


You don?t have to be a cynic to see what?s going on. Cynics by their nature don't care. They use their cynicism to shield themselves from painful truths.


But you?re a taxpayer. The truth is that this was your state once. The Combine has taken it away from you. And they want to keep it.


????


And this...

chicagotribune.com
Man behind curtain is wizard of Rod, Rahm
John Kass

December 12, 2008


When it comes to being the guy behind the guy, there is no one more conspicuous than Rahm Emanuel.

As chief of staff for President-elect Barack Obama, he's usually at Obama's news conferences, standing off to the side, glowering like some fiercely loyal mini-me.

But Emanuel wasn't there Thursday when Obama faced reporters to answer questions about federal charges against Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich (D-Dead Meat), accused of trying to sell Obama's Senate seat to the highest bidder.

"I have never spoken to the governor on this subject," Obama said. "I am confident that no representatives of mine would have any part of any deals related to this seat."

Wow. No staffers tried to make a deal for his Senate seat?

"I've asked my team to gather the facts of any contacts with the governor's office about this vacant seat, so that we can share them with you over the next few days," Obama said.

He could have just asked Emanuel, but he wasn't there, and reporters kept wondering, "Where's Rahm? Where's Rahm?" What they should have been asking is, "Where's Jimmy?"

As in state Sen. James DeLeo (D-How You Doin?)

DeLeo is an extremely powerful politician. You know this because he's hardly ever quoted in newspaper stories.

Emanuel and DeLeo have a relationship. Emanuel is the congressman from the 5th Congressional District, where DeLeo is the Democratic state central committeeman. What hasn't been reported on much is that Emanuel has not yet resigned from the House. And if you want to play politics in Jimmy's sandbox, you need his OK.

DeLeo is also considered by some to be the real governor of Illinois. Blagojevich is the nutty guy who makes the speeches and gets the federal slap. They're so close that if Jimmy suddenly stopped walking, Rod would chip his teeth on the back of Jimmy's head.

It's reasonable to assume that if there's one fellow Rod would talk to about the Senate seat, it's Jimmy. And given their relationship, Jimmy could talk to Rahm. I'm not suggesting money was offered. There is nothing illegal about politicians horse-trading to fill seats. Only when such deals are monetized?as the governor is alleged to have done?is it illegal.

I'm just talking about putting political pieces on the board the Chicago Way. A vacant Senate seat and a soon-to-be vacant House seat in Illinois would be a package deal. Consider this mathematical equation: Jimmy/Rod + Jimmy/Rahm = Happy Rod, Jimmy and Rahm. Get it?

Before he became so powerful, Jimmy was a lowly traffic court bailiff making a measly $20,000 a year. Yet he was able to own shiny new Cadillacs, Jaguars and Mercedes, astounding federal agents, who in 1989 charged him with taking bribes to fix tickets in the Operation Greylord probe of judicial corruption. (I'll bet that the mob boosted this guy up all the way and that he's no power broker at all, he's a very cooperative guy who fronts for them.)

Later, his former roommate told a federal grand jury that there was $35,000 in cash in their freezer, carefully wrapped in butcher paper so the bills wouldn't get freezer burn. But the roommate came to Jimmy's defense, saying the money was his, not Jimmy's, and that it came from the roommate's stolen-car business.

At Jimmy's trial, Outfit gambling boss Ken "Tokyo Joe" Eto emerged from the witness protection program to testify that he passed cash to Jimmy via handshakes. Eto had been hiding since Outfit hit men tried to kill him. They used cheap bullets, and three slugs failed to fully penetrate Eto's diamond-hard cranium.

The jury didn't believe the feds. They believed Jimmy and acquitted him, so he rose to political prominence, and now Obama's chief of staff is the congressman in the district Jimmy controls.

Jimmy didn't return my call to his office, so we checked other joints. "DeLeo?" said Glenn, the manager at Carmine's. "I've never heard of the name. Who?"

At Tavern on Rush, a hostess said, "I haven't seen him today." A woman at Cafe Bionda simply said, "No, he's not here."

So I phoned the Excelsior Casino in Aruba, where Jimmy takes politicians to gamble, including Illinois Secretary of State Jesse White. I figured Jimmy might be there.

"Who's calling please?" asked a secretary in the office of Michael Posner, the casino boss who has Chicago connections.

Tell him John from Chicago is calling, I said. Posner picked up and was quite chirpy, for about three seconds, until he realized I was a newspaper guy.

"If you want to find him, call him yourself," Posner said. Click.

Later, Jimmy's attorney phoned, upset that I'd called all over looking for him. She told me that Jimmy had nothing to do with any deal for Rahm's seat or Obama's seat.

"The answer is no," said Jimmy's attorney. "No."

OK, but I'm still waiting to hear from Jimmy, so I can ask him about Rod and Rahm. I won't hold my breath.

You never hear from the real guy behind the guy.

That's how they remain the guy behind the guy.



Plus, I also started to thinking about those predictions from a few years back that a woman would bring * down. I read some of the threads where you guys talked about different tarot readings and the "Queen of Cups." I'm wondering if Blago's wife, whose under scrutiny herself, is a possible candidate for this woman.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. About the Queen of Cups.
I believe it's Valerie Plame and we haven't seen the last of her yet. She and her husband are pursuing every legal avenue they can and remember there is a connection between her and Fitzgerald as well.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, Plame-Wilson.
Those two are taking their case to the Supreme Court. I wish them the best of luck.

Say, what have you been sensing with regards to the plane crash death of Mike Connell, that GOP IT guru and partner of Rove's who was involved in election rigging? Cliff Arnebeck and the other attorneys pursuing that RICO investigation into election rigging by Rove and other GOP operatives deposed him and got him to testify a day before the election. Rove threatened him and his wife. He even said he was afraid of being thrown under the bus. Arnebeck tried to get witness protection for him and his wife. I hope his wife is okay.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I get the feeling
that Connell DID take the fall, as was reported as part of the threats. Literally. I think it was suicide.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I strongly feel Mike Connell was
assasinated. The M/O is too similar to other small plane crashes that have the shade of Karl Rove hovering over them. Hopefully Larisa Alexandrova and other investigative reporters will uncover the truth.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
24.  didn't know there is a connection between Plame and between Fitzgerald.
Can you take a moment and post it??

And thanks for bringing up this important topic. My father-in-law was a guard in the US Army who served at Nuremberg during the Trials there.

Wrong is wrong, and being a hgh falutin' American official does not make torture or mass murder legal.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Here's a couple.
the MSNBC story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679 /

At the risk of posting from a conservative post, here's Bob Novak's personal explanation for outing Valerie Plame. I thought his reasoning interesting.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15988


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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Much appreciation for these, Cleita. Can you offer
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 01:26 PM by truedelphi
Your take on this gem of a paragraph written by Novak:

For nearly the entire time of his investigation, Fitzgerald knew -- independent of me -- the identity of the sources I used in my column of July 14, 2003. A federal investigation was triggered when I reported that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, was employed by the CIA and helped initiate his 2002 mission to Niger. That Fitzgerald did not indict any of these sources may indicate his conclusion that none of them violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

IS this true or just another diseased wandering of Novak's brain??
(A brain, which in all fairness, has been proven to not work correctly because of the psyche meds he's been on.)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. He's lying. Maybe his disease makes him do it but I really think it's
because of the right wing belief that the ends justifies the means. I really think he thinks he's on a crusade of righteousness and when he was fed the information about Valerie Plame, it was intended to hurt Joe Wilson, her husband, for not being in lockstep with the Republican/BFEE. Also, this column was written long before his disease was diagnosed.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I tend to want to try and take certain things into consideration
But Novak has always had that brand of offensive righteousness, wherein he would probably let himself do any crazy things he wanted to, for the sake of his ego and his beliefs.
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