Anybody have any experience with bee venom therapy for arthritis?

[havocmom]

Mine is getting a lot worse in a big hurry. I can't take a lot of pain meds, and I don't think that is good as total treatment anyway. Sleep is getting to be a rare thing and am getting so my hands, wrists won't do much. Lots of pain and not much strength.

Anyway, I was looking into bee venom and wondered if anyone had any input. Got my first sting yesterday, not planned, just a gentle bee got under my gardening glove and panicked. No bad reaction which was a relief as my brother and sister are both VERY allergic. But that hand does seem to feel a bit better today. Got me thinking more seriously about this particular tactic against RH.

I am only 51 and will not suffer like this for 20 or so years. Getting to where I cannot rely on my joints/body to do things I need to do, which is very minimal anyway.

Thanks for any input, experiences, first or second hand. Would really like to hear your tales on this subject.

[Nancy Waterman]

1. I have heard of using bee venom shots but never tried it

nor do I know anyone who has. If your arthritis is hot, painful and very swollen, you might try apis, the homeopathic remedy made from bee venom. Contact me if you want the details on how to use it. There are many other homeopathic remedies for arthritis, one of which is made from poison ivy. There is a story of some great Duke (of York?) who had very bad arthritis and then got a very bad case of poison ivy all over his body during some military camapign. After he recovered, his arthritis was all gone. I wouldn't try this, however. You could use the remedy if it came to that!!

[havocmom]

3. Thanks, I sent you a PM

Poison ivy? Not much of that where I live. LOL The pain is bad enogh that I might try it though. Will look into your suggestion and find some reading. Thanks for responding.

[Maine-ah]

2. that's really weird, I saw this today...

http://www.villagesoup.com/classifieds/Search.cfm?AdCat=19

[havocmom]

4. LOL Sadly, not in my area, but yeah, sorta weird.

Wonder if you are supposed to be a guide to me at this time. ;)

It's strange but yesterday was the first time I got a bee sting and I am no spring chicken. They hover near me all the time, but are never hostile. This poor little girl just got confused in my work golve and panicked. It is weird cz my husband just mentioned the day before that he wondered if there was a safe way to find out if I was allergic to them or not (like my siblings). He comes from a line of people who all had it bad and he doesn't suffer with it at all. He thinks it might be because he got so many stings when he was young and then in college, as he worked with fire crews in summer.

Odd the bee came along to show me I wouldn't end up suffocating from a stink like my siblings. I do think I want a bee shot kit before I get serious about trying to get stung, jst in case. I realize you can develope an allergy to it at any time. I think my husband would be able to give me a qick shot if things went bad. He's pretty fair giving shots to stock animals, cats & dogs. I coldn't be too much tougher than that. :)

[davsand]

5. I knew a man who swore by it.

I lived with his son for several years.

Cy was a high school science teacher, bee keeper and outdoors man. He'd seen a lot in his life--he'd even been in the Pacific for WW2. He was diagnosed with ALS and lived for over 30 years after that diagnosis was made--which was a huge surprise to the researchers.

The ALS Foundation was talking to the family after he passed away (from Prostate Cancer discovered too late) and the Foundation said they wanted to investigate the possible link between bee venom and a treatment for ALS. (I have no idea what became of that study, BTW.)

Anyhow, Cy used to swear that it helped his Arthritis to go out to his hives and get stung a few times. He'd do that every few days and never seemed to complain of any pain the rest of the time. As a beekeeper, he got stung a lot of times in his life so maybe it was a kind of cumulative thing--I honestly have no idea...

Sorry I can't be more help.


Laura

[havocmom]

6. Lot of help. Thank you

Feedback on use is what I am interested in. If he deoibertly set about getting stung, he must've been helped by it. Thanks again for the story.

[Quakerfriend]

7. I have read that people "swear by it"

I believe I read this in Alternative MD, several yrs ago.

You may want to look at their archives to find the article.

BTW, Rhus Tox is the homeopathic Rx (made from poison ivy) that is used to treate Arthritis (as mentioned above).

[LiberalEsto]

8. I've read that bee venom is sometimes used to treat MS

but can't say whether it really works.

[hvn_nbr_2]

9. Here's something that sounds completely strange to me...

A couple people on this thread over in the lounge are saying that raisins soaked in gin (or was it rum?) are good for arthritis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2952122

They sound serious. I, shall we say, have my doubts.

[havocmom]

10. I am actually working on a modified version of that, for experimental

purposes ;) I hate gin. Well, frankly, I am just not much of a drinker period. But I have some white raisins soaking in a mason jar with some vodka. Am taking a few each say.

Just started this week. Can't say there is improvement as of yet, but then, I am such a lightweight drinker, seven raisins pretty much make me not care that I can barely walk some days.

Havocdad said the alcohol likely would increase the naturally occuring sulfides in the raisins. Figured it was worth a try. I am just not crazy with traditional medicine as practiced in the US. Also, I live very far from real medical care.

The more natural approaches work best for me for other things.

Wish I could get fresh cold water fish. That is a help too.

I do thank you all for dropping in with ideas and input. I have to do something cuz this is getting very bad and I really don't want to be confined and immobile at my age.

[loudsue]

11. Something that may help immediately, and requires no study...

Rub Castor Oil on your hands, and put on some of those cotton cosmetic gloves you get at the pharmacy. It really helps reduce inflammation (and pain). You can get Castor Oil at the pharmacy, too. Sleep with the gloves over your hands coated in Castor Oil, and in the morning, you should find a modicum of relief.

This is something to do while you're studying the homeopathic remedies. The homeopathic remedies work great!

:kick:

[hvn_nbr_2]

12. Here's something else that actually isn't strange...

but you should ask a doctor or pharmacist about it. In this case, that's not just a standard disclaimer; you really should ask someone knowledgeable.

Hyaluronic acid.

It's naturally present in all sorts of connective tissue, but particularly in joints, because it holds a lot of water. So it keeps synovial fluid in joints to lubricate them. Doctors have been injecting it (directly into joints, I think, but not sure of that) for a long time, after joint surgery. However, they thought that it couldn't get through the stomach so they never tried oral doses of it, until very recently. Recently, they changed their thinking on that and decided that a reasonable amount of it does in fact get thru the stomach and into the bloodstream. So now there are supplements available in health food stores.

Recently I had a torso x-ray (for completely unrelated reasons) and the radiologist noted "degenerative changes in the spine." Since I'd been starting to have back pain and stiffness that seemed to be lasting quite awhile, I asked my doc about it, and he said "arthritis," kind of dismissively like I should expect that at my age.

I read somewhere about hyaluronic acid, and one day while picking up a prescription at the pharmacy, I noticed some on display by the pick-up counter, so I decided to try it. Within two or three days, I felt significant improvement, in a week my back felt almost normal, and in several weeks my mobility and comfort felt virtually completely normal. (I've also been taking glucosamine/chondroitin for awhile and also doing yoga and stretching. I'd been experiencing very, very slow improvement, but when I started the HA, the improvement was quick and dramatic.)

The stuff is apparently becoming quite popular because there are numerous makers of it and health food stores still can't keep it on the shelf. I normally have to go two or three times before they have it in stock, so apparently people are buying it a lot.

Okay, now here's why I say, really do ask someone who knows about it. You mentioned "RH" and I took that to mean rheumatoid arthritis, as opposed to osteoarthritis, although I don't really know if that's what you meant. After you started this thread, I googled hyaluronic acid and arthritis and found medical journal articles about hyaluronic acid levels and rheumatoid arthritis that frankly had so many words whose meaning I didn't know, that I couldn't tell if they were saying that high levels of it seemed to be good or bad for rheumatoid arthritis, or even if they were saying either.

I will also suggest that, if you do try it and it doesn't help, try one more brand. I got immediate improvement on the first try, but when I tried a different brand, I regressed. Back to the original brand, good again. Tried a third brand, still good. Fourth brand, still good. I don't know if I got one bad batch, or if it's a different form, or a different source or what, but one just didn't work.

Oral usage of it is so new that it's not even in any of my supplements and natural medicine books.

[havocmom]

13. Thanks for the info. Will do a bit of reading on that one.

Problem is the 'check with a doctor' part. As stated before, we don't have one anywhere near here. I mean within HOURS and HOURS of here.
But with the help of a foreign trained nurse friend and the internet to ask her some questions, I might make it through all those mysterious words about the stuff and rheumatoid arthritis.

Thank you for sharing this info and your personal experiences. I know there are ways of dealing with this without letting a pharmaceutical company poison me. I don't mind sing myself for experimental purposes, so long as I am the one running the experiments! I know I am honest and looking for real results and not profit$ ;)

[loudsue]

14. Which brands did you find most helpful?

I might try this with my husband! He has similar problems to yours.

:kick:

[Nancy Waterman]

15. I'd be interested in the better brands too for my hubby!

I had never heard of this product.

[hvn_nbr_2]

16. I'll check the brands at home

I'm at work right now and don't remember the brands. I hope to get time tonight but no promises. I have some things to do on the way home. (I've kept empty containers so I'd be able to remember which ones worked and which didn't.)

If you look for it in a health food store, it's sometimes with joint products and sometimes with skin products. Apparently there's a fair amount of it in skin too and binding with water is good for skin. Read labels--some of the skin products are specifically for external usage only.

[hvn_nbr_2]

17. Here are the brands I've used successfully

Glucoflex--got it at Walgreens. It's described on the "supplement facts" part of the label as "hyaluronic acid sodium salt." They claim it's "the most bioavailable form of HA." It also includes glucosamine, so if you're taking that, you'll probably want to adjust.

Source Naturals brand Skin Eternal (TM)--it's really designed for skin and it contains collagen and chondroitin too. I've gotten it at Whole Foods Market and seen it at Vitamin Shoppe. Both stores are usually out of stock.

Vitamin World's house brand. It's described as "sodium hyaluronate," which I suspect is the same as the "HA sodium salt" in the first one, but I don't remember enough chemistry to know.

I won't name the one that didn't work for me, mainly because I just don't want to get into that on a public message board, but partly because I've used other products from that company and never had problems. The label describes it as from "microbial fermentation" or something like that; it might just be a different form that doesn't work for me.