Mental illness and the soul

[get the red out]

I have been pondering a question for a few days. How does the human soul react with, relate to, interact with ect... a mentally ill host body/mind while incarnated? Does it sometimes exert enough of it's own momentum to trigger the person to seek help? Could it also in some cases retreat from the incarnated life and leave the mental illness to rule the roost? Or does it have nothing to do with this and the person came into this life without a choice whether to get help or not, that which ever was to be done was decided prior to incarnation with the soul having nothing to do with any kind of choice?

I have been pondering this a great deal, and I don't know if there is an answer and I don't know enough to guess well (maybe no one does). I will tell you though, guesses are quite welcome! I had a situation arise that got me to wondering if we ARE actually more than dumb animals, and if someone is flawed then those are the breaks, they are like an abused animal that can't be rehabilitated, damaged goods without anything to fall back on. But then I have seen cases where that is not at all the outcome. I really doubted the existence of the soul or higher existence for a few minutes on Monday morning though, and I haven't been truly agnostic for 17 years. I have suffered from depression myself, among other problems, so I do hold onto the fact that I was directed toward help (I believe by spirit, which I didn't even believe in at the time), but was that "simply meant to be" in my case or did I, my soul, actually have a choice and tapped into that. But acknowledging a problem or seeking help has never been on this person's radar screen, and now their being is like a sad broken record that can hardly be reached.

[Celebration]

1. some of it is just brain damage

But I feel that an exorcism of sorts would help a lot of mentally ill people out there. Yes, I am talking about casting out demons, if only in a metaphorical sense. But why this has to be done in the first place, I don't know, unless this plane of existence is a bit like Purgatory.

There, I said it (realizing this might be controversial???)

[get the red out]

2. I don't mind controversial

My mind is pretty open to entertaining various points of view on this.

Thanks Celebration for responding.

GTRO

[Oak2004]

7. Not with me, or with my friend with whom I've often discussed this

I "taste" or "smell" things, she "sees" them, and both of us have observed that a lot of psychosis, in particular, amounts to people being shot full of holes and having all sorts of lower entities (and the occasional human apparently aspiring to become a low entity) exploiting those holes. In particular what we've seen is something unlike when someone who is otherwise normally intact is attacked (although such people can certainly get diagnosed as "psychotic" given modern psychiatry's propensities) -- it's as if these hole-filled people lack the ability to form an intact aura. The two of us think that people like this would be much better served by people helping them rid themselves of crud and improve their natural defenses.

Other "mental illness" we've observed is no illness at all, but simply a stressful period of spiritual growth. Psychiatry, on paper, recognizes this (there's a category for it in the DSM), but doesn't recognize this very often in practice (especially since the individual experiencing it often doesn't recognize what it's all about, initially at least, and psychiatry, as the field of medicine with, proportionately, the most atheists, is ill equipped to recognize it for them). Such people are often misdiagnosed with a mental illness.

That said, there seem to be people out there with organic brain disorders. Neither of us argue that "all" mental illness is psychic or spiritual, just that mental illness is far more complex than psychiatry assumes, or knows what to do. But then psychiatry is the one field of medicine that historically is not based in science (even the "mental illness is caused by neurotransmitter imbalances" hypothesis is more a belief than proven science), and if the field, generally speaking, can't come to grips with reason, how on earth could it come to grips with the post-rational?

[Celebration]

9. LOL

the "post-rational"

Now there is a label for me.

:rofl:

PS--agree with everything you said, though I don't see holes and attacks. But I sure do test them with kinesiology, and it rather freaks me out. Oh well.

[MagickMuffin]

3. Early Development, Imprinting and Influences

This would be my first inclination as why some people go over board so to speak. Our earliest influences affect how we deal with situations in life. Perhaps the illness comes from not being recognized for their whole worth and they were imprinted with despair and worthlessness. Early imprints have a huge impact our who we turn out to be. If someone has the imprint that they are not worthy of existence then they will believe this and probably live with this imprint the rest of their life, as they don't think they are worthy of being helped.


This is my impression on the topic.


ETA: another word

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Since I am the token mentally ill person on this board...dual diagnosis and such...

If you want to know my perspective and truth, just ask, directly. :hi:

[I Have A Dream]

5. Dr. Michael Newton's book "Journey of Souls" discusses this.

I don't have the book with me right now. If you don't have it, I'll try to find the section that discusses it and post it. (I think that I recall you saying before that you read this book.)

[get the red out]

6. It's been a while but I found a quote in Michael Newton's "Life between Lives"

It had been a while since I read Michael Newton's books, but I googled and found a pertinent passage:

"Another consideration about mental illness is the fact that certain bodies have a predisposition to abnormal brain chemistry and hormonal imbalances. Combine this with physical and emotional abuse as a child and you have a formula for a disturbed mind. I feel that if such a mind has a younger, inexperienced should they are less able to cope and thus become contaminated and even trapped inside a sick biological mind. Thus the soul is unable to function properly."

I believe this passage could be applicable in this case. I can't come up with why, but I have felt for quite a while that the person in question is a younger, less experienced soul.

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. Add in empathic capability and the non-linear nature of soul awareness

and being in a body can be a fantastically traumatizing experience. At least in my experience.

Others, such as myself, may simply be going through a massive clearing which to others resembles something personally threatening...to interfere with the clearing process would be very bad, from all perspectives. Sometimes when someone wants to be left alone, it is good for everyone concerned to simply respect that request :hi:

[Cleita]

10. My boss is bi-polar and I have witnessed some of his

bizarre moods swings personally, but he's such a good person. I believe that part of him emanates from his soul not his damaged brain. My husband's doctor, who committed suicide, was also one of those really good and kind persons but he also was bi-polar and shot himself when in one of his down moods. I'm always try to keep tabs on the guy I work with, like his mental temperature, because I believe he could be suicidal if the right circumstances presented. I'm happy he doesn't keep guns around.

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. Negative encoding.

How many Seers are there on this forum, yet no one can tell how much =I= can see?

Polite requests to be left alone go ignored...please just find something else to do instead of worrying about me. Try doing something positive.

:shrug:

[Kind of Blue]

11. I'll have to find it too, IHAD. That is where my thoughts

went after reading GTRO's OP.

But I'm thinking of the section where he speaks of basically we, as souls, invading bodies that I interpret have - I don't know how else to put it - but primitive consciousness that basically forms with the body in utero that is aware.

My recall my be incorrect. But I've often wondered if some or many mental illnesses are not from this conflict of consciousness. Creepy.

[I Have A Dream]

12. I remember that section, Blue. Yes, I think that is certainly applicable.

The section that I was referring to was about displaced souls. You can see what I mean on page 37 of this electronic copy of "Journey of Souls":

http://wendang.baidu.com/view/593c8f5f804d2b160b4ec011.html

(This starts at page 45 in the book.)

[Kind of Blue]

18. Fantastic site. I see exactly what you mean.

I'm going to look to it to find which of Newton's books my thoughts are referring to. Glad to have this site so handy. Thanks. :)

[I Have A Dream]

20. Blue, what you mentioned is also in "Journey of Souls".

I think that your original point about the soul taking over the native consciousness/personality is a very good point as well. I think that he is even discussing this in the section that I referenced. He seems to be saying that our soul is held responsible if it's not able to tame a difficult, malicious native consciousness/personality. :(

[Kind of Blue]

22. What? I must not have read it through

but checked the point you were making. Thanks for clearing that up. Such a hard concept to reconcile though it oddly resonates in me. But I've kind of been thinking - hoping - it just might be the another way of referring to the limbic brain and all its built-in precepts that can be tamed. That's a little more comforting :)

[I Have A Dream]

27. I think that the section of the book that you were referencing is...

chapter 13 entitled "Choosing a New Body". This is page 221 in the book. (Page 185 in the on-line version.)

This is at least the part that I thought you meant. :)

[Kind of Blue]

28. Thank you, Dream. I dare say

you just might be our Newton expert.

[I Have A Dream]

29. Blue, are you aware that we had a group read of this book a few years ago?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=18569&mesg_id=18569

[Kind of Blue]

31. Oh, wow. That was 2years before I joined DU.

Thanks so much for this link. It's a great reference point and I see that discussions went on for well over a year! I'm Really going to enjoy that. This is a good idea, especially for the authors we have in this group who have books out or about to be published.

Thank you, IHAD! You really are a Dream :hug:

[I Have A Dream]

32. We had at least one other group read with one of Matthew's books.

There may have been others as well. :)

[Lindsey]

13. It's very confusing to me. On one hand, I think it's

chemical imbalances in the brain (my family has mental disorders all over the place- family suicides, shock treatments being done to more family members than I can even count, in essence genetic reasons; and too many other issues I can even go into). On the other hand, I wonder if we incarnate w/our soul issues due to previous lives. For example, I believe I've killed myself in many past lives and have now come back with the realization this time (thank God)that if I do it again I'll have to incarnate and live this same life (or even worse)over again(and the life I'm living now for the most part has been pretty horrible and coming back in this situation is something that's unimaginable). I suffer from some depression myself but suicide is not an option for me. Equally as important, I have an adult son and siblings that I adore and I absolutely would not do that to them. So, maybe I have learned some things - I hope so anyway....

[Kind of Blue]

19. Given what you've gone through

I'd say you've learned a lot! :hug:
But wonder no more, Newton's books are the very essence of what you're thinking. Nice that IHAD has provided a link up thread.

[Shallah Kali]

21. I believe my problems are a combination of genetics, environment, & past life history

mental problems run in my genetic family. I have experienced events of varying levels of trauma. I believe both of these opened up past life wounds which exacerbated the whole mess. I have done enough regressions and had enough spontaneous memories to see this. Add in empathy... not a fun combo.

[Shallah Kali]

14. I am not sure

I think it would make sense if it was like dealing with a non-mental disorder of the physical form - sometimes it is chosen sometimes it is chosen not comprehending how hard it would be, and sometimes accidents happen.

I figure people come into a lifetime with an outline but that things can change and change drastically from the first breath of incarnation master plan or not.

[NJCher]

15. my current thinking on this topic

Graham Hancock has some ideas that seem interesting to me.

One is to think of the brain as a tuner, much like a radio, that is set for a certain frequency. Since most of our brains are set for a degree of range, we function similarly.

However, a mentally ill person's brain is set for a frequency which is not in the range of most of the other people in a given society. This person behaves or sees the world in an entirely different way from the rest of us. We discriminate against these people (mental health stigma) based on the fact that their brain is set to a different frequency.

The experience of being "out of tune" might be a valuable one, if one believes in reincarnation and that we learn from each lifetime. While it can be ugly and not something I would wish on anyone, it nevertheless could be a learning experience.


Cher

[MoralSyncretism]

16. That's just a metaphor

"Tuned like a radio" -- that's just a metaphor, not what's really going on. Have you ever seen a real human brain - either in a surgical setting or splattered on the pavement? There are chemical and physical structures at work there. The "incarnated" person isn't a radio, or their brain a tuner, and doesn't develop "like" one.

Re mental illness, or differences: "based on the fact that their brain is set to a different frequency."  -- Uh, I don't think so. Even taking into account electrical impulses, brains aren't like radio tubes. Except that "radio tubes" and light bulbs can all be made of different components, some have filament made with strontium, some with tungsten, some are filled with a gas, some a vacuum, some with diodes or triodes, etc. They're composed differently and therefore work differently. So who decides the composition? Why do some combinations work one way and others another? Do they change over time? Why? - And yes, where does "the soul" come in to play? Is it just metaphor as you've presented it? - (Reincarnation -- is that a form of recycling materials, chemicals, components? And how does a soul jump from one combination of materials to another?)

How do you know your own brain is or isn't "out of tune"? How WOULD you know? :shrug: "the rest of us" assumes a norm. Who defines the norm? You mention societies. Why would different groups of people, physically speaking, be tuned to a "range of frequencies" (fit to a bell-shaped curve mathematically, therein defining a "norm")?

Philosophy and metaphor, not based on science, do not really explain the chemical, biological, and structural changes that take place in a person (aka, the brain).

[Kookaburra]

17. NJCher wasn't being literal

She was using the radio/frequencies metaphor to explain why she believes some people are considered mentally ill.

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. I have shown on this board that I am capable of detecting earthquakes two months away.

I no longer look for them, but I wonder if anyone would call it mental illness, because it is presented in an empiric manner.

My issues are from more than spiritual ability and its collision with the horrific 3rd dimension.

[MoralSyncretism]

25. But how does that explain anything, really?

You could use the same metaphor to justify prejudice. "I think all red-heads are tuned to a different frequency." (Substitute "Republicans" "Freepers" or "RightWingers" for red-heads -- or Southerners, or Gen X'ers, or engineers, or athletes, or...)

All the popular books on differences between men and women, how they think or communicate differently -- you could use the same metaphor there: they're on different frequencies, tuned differently.

But what's the biological basis for the differences, or cultural/developmental reasons? Now think about mental illness. If it's genetic, or environmental, or chemical, why? and what can be done about it? Is it just destiny? How do you explain medications that alter mental and emotional states? Is that just changing the frequency people are tuned to?

-- It's a simplistic metaphor, the radio frequency thing, that just doesn't help realistically, IMHO.

[get the red out]

24. This has helped me

Every answer here has helped me get some kind of perspective on this issue. Mental illness has caused trauma in my family for many generations, and is always the elephant in the living room with people walking into lamps and across couches to avoid actually touching the real issue. I feel like the soul does do battle in such instances. I am grateful that IHAD and Kind of Blue reminded me of Michael Newton's books. That helps me also since I put a lot of stock in his research. And I am also glad to get other perspectives, like the potential for other entities causing problems.

I truly believe that mental illness in the brain and mind is a product of genetics and possibly a trigger in the environment, like abuse. But I also feel that the soul exists outside these things, timeless, but that doesn't mean it can always handle them. If the soul could never fail to fully accomplish what it intends then there would be no point to this existence any more than if it always accomplished all the good there was to do. Live and learn in this life and across lives. I am glad I posted this topic because it is helping me get back to my spiritual sense, which was struck a bit of a temporary blow over the weekend.

Still thinking on this, but I am processing things better.

:grouphug:

[Kind of Blue]

26. That's so good.

I love it when I can ask the questions that can lead to answers that helps to process effectively.

[eilen]

30. I am not a mental health professional or an expert

I have done nursing clinicals on psychiatric floors and encounter a wide continuum of people with mental health issues so I will communicate my theory. You will find a real mix.

1. There are some I almost immediately recognize as being what I call in my mind "soul sick". Their souls are ill. We really have no treatment for this yet. So doctors drug the hell out of them causing them to be even more vulnerable.

2. There are others I see as being worked on by lower or mendacious beings. They appear to be very manipulative and can be very cruel. This can come in concert with physical manifestations as well. They feed off other's pain as well as their hosts.

3. There are some that are going through a hard time, have been injured and are mentally/psychically delirious in pain. And others that are just have organically lost function such as those with alzheimers or dementia. Their minds wear out before their bodies. Others in this category suffer a PTSD, have been traumatized by others in 3D or by experiences. Category 1 can overlap, this can cause a soul sickness.

4. Some are possessed or under control. I am sure their chemistry is altered by this. I have met a few schizophrenics in this category. I have to say there there can be a mix of categories, or causes for each-- they can overlap. Some damage to the individual can also be caused by assault on the body and mind with drugs and alcohol, altered states and then the actions of the body while in the altered state such as promiscuity with individuals who don't come from a place of security and love instead from a place of exploitation and harm. It is most painful to see children in this category.

It is my theory as to why there is an increase in autism, it is almost like a protective mechanism, this desire to withdraw-- as a response to a sicker environment or one fraught with danger--batten down the hatches so to speak. Perhaps that can also be a reason for some dementias--at at time when the body and mind are older and less facile. My grandmother had dementia and I imagined in her brain-- it was like being in a dusty attic looking at an old photo album full of things from her past and her mind just forgot where it was and found it was safer and lest painful just living there.

I had a dream in which my guide and I were in a place like a holding area applying our hands over the heads of people healing their souls/mental/psychic selves. They had to submit to this healing before they could progress. It was communicated to me that it was damage done by their time in 3D. All people gather some damage during their time here.

It seems that certain souls are better at fending off what I consider to be parasites.

I guess basically there is no one pat answer. We see a range because there are different causes.

[get the red out]

33. Thank you! My Grandmother too.

My grandmother had dementia and I imagined in her brain-- it was like being in a dusty attic looking at an old photo album full of things from her past and her mind just forgot where it was and found it was safer and lest painful just living there.

I always had exactly the same opinion of my Grandmother's dementia, that considering my Grandfather was basically lost in some form of mental illness and completely paranoid, retreating from this world was just much easier than staying in her body. She started suffering from demential well before old age. She had also been horribly abused as a child, basically an orphan given as a slave to a nasty tempered old woman at age 6, married a hateful, mentally ill scrooge, and had two babies out of three die shortly after birth. I think she just really had enough and faded comfortably away as soon as possible.

I am thinking that the same way my Grandmother's consciousness retreated one's soul can retreat from a situation that is over its head, so to speak, I think that is at least part of what has happened in my family. Thanks for your list, I believe it is pretty accurate in what can happen in the mentally ill. My family is so full of mental illness it is unbelievable. And mental illness in one generation causes PTSD from mistreatment combined with inherited genetic factors in the next. I look back in time and I see the sadness of lives lost and I wonder who couldn't help that and who just gave up? I know that I faced a point at 28 where I had to choose to either give up or to live, I clearly remember that choice. I get upset sometimes thinking that surely I was not the only person in my family who clearly saw that they had some choice in the matter. But some souls may not be powerful enough to exert control, or become weak beyond choices here on this physical Earth.

[Shallah Kali]

34. since others were brave enough to go there.......

Remarkable Healings: A Psychiatrist Discovers Unsuspected Roots of Mental and Physical Illness
Author Shakuntala Modi
http://books.google.com/books?id=NcS9PQAACAAJ

Casting Out Evil Spirits
A Pioneering Psychotherapist Points Her Profession Back to Its Roots
http://www.atlantisrising.com/backissues/issue18/18evilspirits.html

Protection Technique (from Modi's book)
http://execonn.com/matt/Docs/ProtectionTechnique.htm