DNS for Dummies....help, please!!!! - Democratic Underground

OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 08:15 AM
Original message

DNS for Dummies....help, please!!!!

There is one basic aspect of domain name mapping I have never grasped.

I usually use URL stealth forward. I understand that's not good for several reasons. One of which, with the website builder/host I'm currently using, the additional pages don't reflect in the URL when I use stealth forward.

Last night I inserted the appropriate A record ISP info and CNAME record and awoke to an error that the website doesn't exist.

Are we supposed to do one or the other? EITHER A record or CNAME and not both? That is what always confused me and the info at each site has never clarified that for me.

How can I get a friggin URL to display properly and forward via DNS management?

Thanks!!! :)

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Duer 157099

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Sun Nov-08-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message

1. Need more info

The A record points to an IP address, whereas a CNAME points an individual subdomain (eg, www prefix) to a host (eg, ghs.google.com.) When you use CNAME, the receiving host must know that you're pointing your domain there in order for it to resolve properly.

So, for example, you might have an A record with your domain registrar that points to the IP (numerical) of your registrar's DNS server, and then might also have a CNAME record for just the www.yourdomain.com site that points to another host's DNS.

You don't need to give specifics about your domain, but be more specific about what you've done and what you're trying to do. Also, Registrars vary in the procedure for making such changes, some easy, some not so much.

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Dead_Parrot

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Sun Nov-08-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message

2. I don't think you do

As far as I can make out, "Stealth forwarding" is a
sexed up name for "frame forwarding" - A simple page
at www.mycoolwebsitename.com sticks an invisible frame up, and
fills it with the contents of
www.shittyhost.com/hosting/rubbish.url/but.cheap/my.page, like
this:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>My cool web site</title>
</head>
<frameset rows="100%,*" border="0">
  <frame
src="http://www.shittyhost.com/hosting/rubbish.url/but.cheap/my.page"
frameborder="0" />
  <frame frameborder="0" noresize />
</frameset>
</html>

- which is why the url never changes: technically, you are
always looking at the one page at www.mycoolwebsitename.com.
Hosts like dynadot are happy to do this because, let's face
it, that's not a whole lot of code to host. :)

The CNAME approach is the technically proper one - I type in
www.mycoolwebsitename.com, it's resolved by cname to
www.shittyhost.com/hosting/rubbish.url/but.cheap/my.page,
which is resolved to ip 10.20.30.40 and off I go: There's a
one in a million chance I might look at the url afterwards and
cry "Ahh! My eyes! I cannot lower myself to look upon
this page! I shall blog of this infamy!" but I'd be
impressed if you can find a case of anybody doing this, ever.

So depending on what you've plugged into the DNS, either
mycoolwebsitename.com is pointing to the name servers of the
registrar you used but their web servers haven't got the frame
page (=404), or you've pointed it to shittyhost.com who have
never heard of mycoolwebsitename.com (=404).

Unless someone knows a cunning trick I'm missing, you either
go with the frame forwarding & bugger the urls, or go with
a standard forward & bugger the cool name (other than as a
link/bookmark).

Or fork out for a real host, of course. ;)

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OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message

3. Okay, here are more specifics...

First, I was always advised by developers years ago to never purchase a domain name from a host. So, I've always purchased domains from a dedicated registrar (even though most have gotten into hosting and offering website builders and such nowadays), and then developed the site elsewhere. I thus have always had to "point" the URL to where the site was hosted.

My current situation is that I have created a website through a website builder that hosts the site as well. Much easier for a non-programmer such as myself for basic site needs.

I have a custom domain I want to use in conjunction with that site. Rather than the URL showing up as (invoking Dead_Parrot): screwyou.rightwingers.com as it does now, when people go to the home page I want it the URL to be: www.screwyou.com, which is my custom domain, with the "rightwingers" being the name of the website platform I'm using.

Keep in mind that it's only in the last year or so that I have learned that the "www" is itself a subdomain of sorts. I still get confused as to whether to set something up as www.screwyou.com or just screwyou.com. lol

Anyway, in the website platform's instructions about hostname mapping, it gives information as to how to set up the CNAME and the A record at the registrar's site.

Are you saying that for www.screwyou.com (subdomain) I need to set up one thing, and for just screwyou.com I use another? The CNAME is for one and the A record is for another?

Oy. I told you I need DNS for dummies. I have a mental block about this and it's driving me crazy. If I can grasp this concept before bed tonight I will have accomplished something herculean (actually, YOU guys will have accomplished something herculean).

:)

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Why Syzygy

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Sun Nov-08-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #3

4. LOL!

screwyou.rightwingers.com

:rofl:

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OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. ...

;)

:hi:

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Duer 157099

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Sun Nov-08-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #3

6. OK.

The domain without any prefix (eg, screwyou.com) is called a "naked" domain.

The structure is (as I'm sure you know): prefix.domain.tld or even preprefix.prefix.domain.tld. Domain.tld is naked.

Usually, the A record is set up for the naked domain. So, that should be a number, the IP of whoever is hosting the DNS for your domain. It could be the registrar, or it could be your host, but whoever it is, they need to know that they're doing this. Them telling you what to put in the nameserver fields with your registrar is only half of the equation, so don't forget that part. Your host must also put your domain in their database. Plus, there's a variable length of time when such databases are updated, some are instantaneous, others can take 1-2 days.

The CNAME record specifically applies to subdomains, such as www (or whatever else you might choose) and points to a host name (like ghs.google.com. and not an IP address). Also, and I don't know why this is, sometimes you need to make sure there is a trailing period after the com part of that entry for the CNAME. Some databases automatically add this, others don't.

So, if you're sure that your hosts knows to expect your domain, and if you're sure that the changes have been entered properly, and you've given sufficient time for all involved parties to update their databases (including your ISP and even perhaps your own browser cache), then everything should be fine.

naked domain ==> A record with IP address
subdomain (www) ==> CNAME alias to hostname

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OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. Hallelujah!!!!!

Thank you so very, very, very much!

Yes, I knew I had to give the host the domain info so it was a "two-way" transaction between them and the registrar. I also knew there could be quite a bit of lag time for it to "take" -- the host gives a certain message that it hasn't "resolved" yet.

Interesting about the trailing period. I need to look at that. Perhaps that's the problem?

Okay, I get it and I thank you again so much!

:hug:

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Duer 157099

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Sun Nov-08-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #7

10. Don't feel badly, it truly is confusing

I'm not even sure whether I really understand it. The trick is to know enough about it to be able to try various approaches until one works :)

Here's a useful site for such things:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/

My rule of thumb is, when given a choice about who will be my domain host (usually the registrar but not necessarily) is to use whoever is the largest and most reliable and whoever is mostly dedicated to that end of the business. A web host is not necessarily the best choice as a domain host.

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OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #10

11. Wonderful...

I've bookmarked the site. Thanks again for all the help. :)

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Dead_Parrot

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Sun Nov-08-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #3

8. First off, that bit of advice has probably expired

Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 06:30 PM by Dead_Parrot

In the "Wild west" days of the web, there were indeed all sorts unscrupulous bastards out there and it was usually worth using a "proper" registrar to avoid paying an inordinate sum of money, and to make sure you kept control of the domain. The regs have been tightened a lot since then, and anyone playing games these days will find a large gentleman with a sharp stick knocking on their door with a message from ICANN.

With that in mind, I'd be inclined to drop the hosting team at rightwingers.com a line and tell they them you've got this screwyou.com domain, and could they set up nice normal hosting for it? Chances are they're already set up to do this proceedure-wise, so whilst there might be a small admin fee you should just be able to give them the details and the transfer key and leave them to it: That way you get the proper screwyou.com urls accross the board.

The "www" bit is a messy area. In theory, it lets you subdivide your domain by function (file transfer at ftp.rightwingers.com, email at smtp.rightwingers.com, time at ntp.rightwingers.com) in the same way you can subdivide it by content (screwyou.rightwingers.com, batshitcrazy.rightwingers.com, fuck.rightwingers.com): It's only a naming convention, and you could set up an ftp server at www.rightwingers.com and a website at ftp.rightwingers.com - although you would confuse the fuck out of almost everyone. You'll see some sites without the www at all (http://no-www.org/, for example) although you'll notice screwyou.com doesn't get automagically converted to a link by DU, whereas www.screwyou.com does: Same will apply for emails and the like. Best to leave it in, IMHO.

For forwarding purposes, it would be nice if you could say "*.screwyou.com -> *.screwyou.rightwingers.com", but when RFC1034 was written they didn't think of that (Doh!). Some nameservers let you set up a wildcard with a fudge, some don't (I've noticed my host, Godaddy, doesn't) so you have to take it on a case by case basis whether you need www.screwyou.com & screwyou.com records. It's safer to include both, and it's not that much extra typing. :)

Sigh. It's not you, it really is a pig's ear.

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OneGrassRoot

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Sun Nov-08-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8

9. A man after my own heart...

"batshitcrazy.rightwingers.com, fuck.rightwingers.com"

:rofl:

Thank you for enlightening me about this stuff. It really has helped tremendously.

I appreciate it! :)

:hi:

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