Backing up

[JerseygirlCT]

I'm looking for opinions here, please.

I don't have a system, other than putting my photos and videos on cd, that is.

Are there pros and cons to an online system, like Carbonite vs. another drive, probably external and USB, because I really don't want anything complicated?

I'm not entirely clear from Carbonite's site whether I can easily make sure my programs, not just files, are backed up ( not just documents and settings, that is). Anyone using that or something like it?

Thoughts?

[RoyGBiv]

1. I don't like online backups ...

I'm just one opinion. I know others here have a different one, and they can weigh in if they want.

I don't know about that company. I can just tell you that generally speaking what you're getting is a service to backup whatever data you choose to backup, but that doesn't include your programs.

Doing what you're wanting to do requires making an image of your installation, which means, basically, taking a snapshot of your entire hard drive, not just the files, and saving it somewhere. That image can then be used to restore the hard drive to the state it was in when you made the backup.

Online backup services don't do that, at least not the ones with which I am familiar. Even if you find one that does, you're potentially talking about an enormous amount of data, up to the full size of your hard drive. Not sure what you have in your system, but I've got about a terrabyte. Even at broadband speeds, that's going to take quite a while and would completely go over the limit of my service contract with my provider.

But even if you find one that does, think about it. Your system is hosed, and you can't get to the Internet. How do you download the data?

It's also just not as convenient, imo. I personally don't think it's as secure, but others would argue with that, so I won't go on about it.

How big is your hard drive anyway?

[JerseygirlCT]

2. Looks like I'm using

about 45 gbs of a 150 gb drive. Nothing huge.

I was wondering about what you said, though. How do you connect to the internet if everything's gone? I'd have to use another computer, upload everything to that, find a way to transfer... is that right? While with an actual hard drive, it's just sitting there on my desk.

OTOH, I don't really have that much by way of programs, etc. My kid's music programs (he composes)... though we should be able to reinstall that.

And $50/yr isn't bad. Although OTOH, I could pay $90 once at Staples for 500gb right now.

I'm not sure at all what would be required to set an external up though. And then I'd have to remember to actually copy those files over on a regular basis, right?

[RoyGBiv]

3. Disclaimer ...

Before I continue I'd should say two things. First, given my thoughts on online backup services, which are rather more severe than I have indicated, I'm giving a biased opinion.

Second, I do backups in a completely different way since I run Linux and don't worry much over my system getting hosed. Hell, it's hosed right now from an update to the kernel I haven't bothered to figure out yet, but I have the option of using an older version and going along my merry way. I've never actually lost an entire system, but when I've had problems, I just reinstall the OS and all my software in an afternoon. My data is all backed up nightly to a separate drive and stored in an archive structure I created myself. When I do a restore, I literally just run a script and leave until it's done.

Anyway, the point of my mentioning the latter is that others who use Windows day-to-day may have a more informed opinion of these things.

That out of the way.

You can get a really nice 500GB from NewEgg for $70. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

You can then get Acronis TrueImage for $50. http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

Acronis really and truly takes care of the hard part.

As for a USB drive, setting it up is far, FAR easier than installing a new internal. You literally just plug 'em in and go, at least the good ones, which is what the WD drive I mentioned in the other thread is.

That's my basic advice. The thing about backups is that you may never need them, and no matter how you go about it, it's going to seem like wasted money up to the point you do actually need them. When thinking of a backup solution, you need to consider what you'll be wanting or thinking at that time. In that situation, I go for immediacy and ease of use, which generally requires a somewhat larger up-front investment.

[RoyGBiv]

4. P.S.

There I go scanning again ... I think I should just go to bed early.

About the online backup process:

Generally the way people who use these thing do it this way:

You backup whatever data you want to the online service, probably using some kind of software they provide.

If your system dies, you go about fixing that first.

Then, you download your data and do whatever you have to do to restore it on your fixed system.

The hypothetical case I provided about backing up everything online was just that, hypothetical. I don't doubt it happens with, say, a large organization that has its own server farm and can do things like this easily, but for a the home user, yes, you're talking about a complicated process that's really going to put a kink in your weekend.

All that said, an off-site backup service for something like your kid's music he's composed is not a bad idea at all. That stuff can't be just re-created, and if you're thinking of long-term security, a home backup system could, for example, get destroyed in a natural disaster.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a full-system backup, and I definitely do no recommend an online service for that.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. I'm sort of leaning toward something I actually have right here

Just my gut.

He's got copies of his own music with him, so I'm not as concerned about that. After my computer melt-down in May, I got on him pretty hard, and he was pretty scared straight himself about copying that stuff. I don't want that lost - he's good!

So, yes, it's just about ease of backing up - so I remember to do it - and ease of recovery should I need it.

I'm leaning toward spending $70 and just buying an external drive. Do I then need special software to backup, or can I literally just copy and paste a drive to a drive?

[Shardik]

6. Go to Costco and pick up A WD back up drive

They come in 500GB to a TB and are plug and play. Then as Roy has suggested get a copy of the Acronis software.

I use Acronis and the MS OneCare. The Acronis can clone your drive and recreate it on a new drive. Very good.

The MS OneCare will only save your documents, mail, settings, etc. It also has a pretty good update and virus setup.

[Jazzgirl]

10. Jersweygirl...you can get a 1 terrabyte drive for

$149.99 at Newegg and that includes no shipping costs. On edit: I use Acronis to backup my main computer hard drive and drag/drop the rest of the files I want backed up over to the drive.

[PennDem]

7. What is the value of your data?

Most hardware, operating system and program installation disks can be readily replaced. What cannot be easily replaced are your data files. The personal financial data, email, videos, pictures, music etc. that you've created or accumulated for years are what need to be protected. For disaster data recovery from a fire, flood or any other disaster, you cannot beat an online backup service. You can obtain another computer and restore your backed up files to it from anywhere in the world. Unless you do your backups regularly to multiple external hard drives, flash memory drives or CDs/DVDs while keeping at least one copy offsite of your premises, there is a chance that you could lose all of your data.

[JerseygirlCT]

8. I think I've got all the pix and videos on cd now. The music (original stuff, that is)

my kid has his copies of - but I suppose I ought to make duplicates, too on something external.

And yeah, then there's just some odd excel and word documents - and most of that's also on cd. So I guess I'm not really in bad shape should something happen.

And from what I read, the Pavilion I have created restore points and if I had to restore, it wouldn't go back to out of the box, but to one of these points - so I wouldn't necessarily lose all. Exactly how to do that, though, I don't remember. I've walked through it with a tech, but that whole experience is always so relaxed and pleasant (?!) that I'm not sure I remember quite how it was done.

I do know that after the attack I suffered in May, going back to that restore point wasn't enough - we had to wipe the whole thing, it was that bad. The tech who came out to help suggested at that point that everytime I put pix or something like that on the computer I put them on a cd at the same time. Good idea, I thought.

[PennDem]

9. System restore

will not restore your data files. It can restore your system files to a given point before a major update or change was done that caused operational issues. I guess my point is if you really cannot live without your files, back them up in some fashion and put copies in safe location such as a safe deposit box. An online backup can serve the same purpose too.

[Duer 157099]

11. Oh boy, do I have alot to say about this

but I can't right now. I've been offline for too many days and just now (midnight Tuesday) got back after the huge relief victory this evening. Funny thing, tonight my computer finally started to behave normally. I think the universe might be back on kilter or something.

I've spent the better part of the past month learning more than I ever thought I needed to know about disaster recovery (computer that is), so at some point soon I'll be posting many things.

But the one quick tip I'll pass on is:

Drive Image XML (freeware)

http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm

These guys are good, and I've tested many many data recovery programs and found theirs (Get Data Back) to be superior to most, that's what clinched it for me in assessing their skill in programming.

Drive Image is free, it's easy, and it does what you need (or at least one thing that you need, which is to clone a drive or partition). The incremental backup type thing is not what this is for and I can't speak to that yet. But it will ease your mind knowing that you have a copy of the whole drive somewhere (on DVD, for example, or on an external drive) that could be resuscitated if need be

I learned the very hard lesson recently that System Restore is not always the best answer. I've come full circle now to where I disable it completely, at the permissions level, so that no programs can even enable it (as they are wont to do). But only do that if you have an alternate solution in place.

Contrary to what seems intuitive, cloning drives can be very problematic for reasons that seem so mysterious, even unfathomable, until you finally untangle all the little knots (which I've been doing, ugh). I finally got to the point today where I had to delve into the lowest level you can imagine, I mean, like which bit and which byte are exactly where, before I FINALLY get it and understand why it's been such a PITA. I know some of you will know what I'm talking about.

Hopefully soon we'll have an in depth discussion about it.

Now if only i could figure out how a bios update would kill a machine.... suicide cmos virus???

[struggle4progress]

12. I regularly clone my hard drive onto a 2nd drive & regularly copy important files to a 3rd drive

Then if my main hard drive dies, I have a clone that's not too old that I can use to restore almost everything -- and recent copies of the important files will be available from the 3rd

[daggahead]

13. Remote Backups

I own a remote backup service company, and I can tell you that the backup process can be slow, but you can assure your data is off site. The speed that your data is transferred is completely dependent on your Internet connection upload speed.

Any "local" backup (to an external HD, flash drive, tape, etc) that is not kept off site is vulnerable. Even if you take all of the necessary precautions to diligently backup, there is an "X" factor - kids, pets, your neighbors, etc.

My suggestion is that you do a monthly or weekly full backup to an external drive, and store that drive off site or at the very least, a fire-proof safe. Then, do incremental backups to whatever medium you like. At the worst, you'll have a full copy from the previous week or the last time you did a monthly backup.

BTW - my service starts @ $7.50 a month. Unlike Carbonite and some of the others, you won't get spammed by business partners, plus you get to work directly with the owner of the company.

[Deja Q]

14. Online? Beware, some sites may claim copyright over it...

x(

Of course, with hard drives you risk corruption in any number of ways...

I'd still go with hard drives.

When blu-ray drives come down, I'll go that route. Rather less expensive...