Supplements {glucosamine, chondroitin} for osteoarthritis 'do not work' (BBC)

[eppur_se_muova]

Two popular supplements taken to combat joint pain do not work, a study says.

The review of 10 previous trials by Bern University in Switzerland found glucosamine and chondroitin did not have any beneficial effect on osteoarthritis of the hip or knee.

The supplements are not normally given on the NHS, although they are bought over the counter in UK pharmacies.

But the researchers said they did no harm so if people wanted to continue taking them they could.

This is because of the so-called placebo effect, where symptoms improve because a patient feels better psychologically for taking a substance.
***
more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11330747

[DesertFlower]

1. i've been taking the supplements

for about 15 years. i don't think it was a placebo effect when the pain and stiffness in my fingers went away.

[gateley]

4. Are you taking Hyaluronic Acid? That helped me, too. nt

[DesertFlower]

11. yes. it has hyaluronic acid in it.

[femrap]

7. I've been taking them for

years as well....my knees don't hurt when it's going to rain/snow anymore. I've read that one must take THE TRIPLE STRENGTH twice a day.

[DesertFlower]

12. my doc advised taking twice the amount

for the first few months.

[davidwparker]

26. +1

[livetohike]

2. It seems to work for my dog - with arthritis in her hips

At least she seems better to me :shrug:.

[gateley]

6. Also try Hyaluronic Acid. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

10. I've found turmeric to be really good for joint pain.

It's an anti-inflammatory without the side-effect profile of things like Naproxen (Aleve).

[livetohike]

16. How much turmeric do you think an 80 lb dog might take?

Thanks :hi:.

[salvorhardin]

29. You might want to ask your vet about that

Turmeric contains circumin which can irritate skin, mucous membranes and the GI tract.

[gateley]

20. Wow! Turmeric is almost becoming a panacea! I've never heard that it

helped joint pain but I'm so glad you're taking it. It's great for your heart and LOTS of other things. Here's a link on it. Not sure if it's quite as miraculous as this site makes it sound, but I do know it's good stuff! :hi:

http://www.healthdiaries.com/eatthis/20-health-benefits-of-turmeric.html

[livetohike]

15. Thanks! There is HA in the pills I'm giving here. I don't know

the % though. Do you have a suggestion on how much HA she should have? She weighs 80 lbs.

[gateley]

21. No but I'll go look. I also saw your question about the turmeric so I'll check

on that, too. I live with my brother and they have an 80 lb Golden Retriever who's old and on her last legs. They don't do much about it (figure she's just old) but I've been meaning to research the HA and other things to at least make her last days more comfortable. I hadn't known about the turmeric for joint pain -- it's good for so many things.

I'll get back to you.

[livetohike]

23. Thanks gately :-). n/t

[wuvuj]

38. Try 25 mg DHEA and 500 mg L-arginine....per day...or don't...

....my dog shaped up for 2 more years on these.

[HuckleB]

14. She probably does seem better to you.

I know I thought the same thing when we tried it with our dog a decade ago.

But...

Is There a Placebo Effect for Animals?
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=263

[livetohike]

17. Interesting article!

Thanks for posting this link. Maybe I expect she will do better and therefore I perceive it as so. It would be nice if our pets could talk (or maybe not) :-).

[Abq_Sarah]

41. It does work for my dog

My old dog went from being barely able to get out of bed in the morning to running and playing again.

I had him on Rimadyl, which was useless and elevated his liver enzymes. Switched him to Previcox which messed with his Kidney values. Moved him to Dasuquin and saw results in about 2 weeks. This isn't a placebo effect, its an increase in mobility in an old dog.

[golddigger]

3. Article brought to you from "Big Pharma."

[kimmerspixelated]

19. Nail-hitter! n/t

[davidwparker]

27. +1

[HereSince1628]

5. That's better news for sharks than people with arthrititis

But as Murikans going into the new world order we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss nutrient deficiencies as causitive agents of disease.

[HughMoran]

8. Didn't help my arthritic flare ups, though it did get rid of the crunchiness in my neck

So I use it when my neck gets the calcicrunchies.

[More_liberal_than_mo]

9. I call Bull Shit on this.

I started taking the supplements 6 years ago after my doctor said I had arthritis. I was in constant pain from pain in my knees, shoulders and hips. It took about 6-8 months for the pains to totally subside but they did go away and never came back. You may say that this is due to the placebo effect but listen to this: My large dog, Dottie, weighed 85 pounds and loved to run. She started suffering terribly from hip pain. She got so bad that she could hardly walk.

I took her to the vet and her xrays showed that she had a severe case of arthritis in both her knees and hips. He prescribed pain killers and glucosamine with chondroitin supplements. It cost a fortune for her pills. After the first pills ran out I started giving her the same supplements I was taking. Within 6 months I was able to stop her giving her any pain pills and she stopped limping and whining when she first got up after lying for a while. She started running again and hasn't shown any signs of pain for over a year now. You can't tell me that my dog got better from the "placebo effect"!

[HuckleB]

13. Glucosamine: The Unsinkable Rubber Duck

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6266

Glucosamine Update: A New Study and a New Product
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=51

Deep Knee Bends? Me? You Gotta Be Kiddin'!
http://scienceblogs.com/thecheerfuloncologist/2007/04/post_80.php

In other words, the review's results are not shocking.

[jsamuel]

18. AKA, NHS declares that it will no longer pay for the suppliments because one study

said they don't work.

My wife took them. She had lots of pain. After a year of taking them, the pain was completely gone. She stopped taking the pills, the pain came back after a month. She took the pills again, it went away. She took the pills for about 4/5 more years. She stopped taking them again when we were trying to get pregnant. She hasn't had any issues.

[HuckleB]

24. One study?

Try multiple studies.

[jsamuel]

30. It says "a study"

containing multiple trials

[HuckleB]

32. So you don't understand what that means.

:rofl:

[jsamuel]

34. I understand, but the fact remains that this was done as a single review of multple trials by

a single university. That is a study in my book. Now if it were multiple trials from multiple sources, that would be another story. Usually, you want confirmation by multiple sources, not just multiple trials.

[HuckleB]

37. It is a review.

There is a big difference. And the trials are not all from a single university.

See:
http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4675.full

Further, I've posted further links to pieces on studies that come to the same conclusion on this page.

I've yet to see a large-scale study on humans that shows anything different.

Further, the article notes that NHS wasn't funding these supplements, already. It does say that the NHS is making a change because of this review.

[felix_numinous]

22. I really feel it when I run out of glucosamine, MSM & chondroitin

I am really lazy and hate taking pills, so I have learned this over and over. I have forgotten to take them and then realized that is why I am in so much pain, so how would that be a placebo? When I run out and have to build up the pills in my system, there is a gradual lessening of my symptoms. I will not stop taking these pills since they work fine for me.

[rurallib]

25. 'bout 15 years ago the doc said I would be in a wheelchair within a couple years

and I read about G & C. Figured what could it hurt?
15 years later still walking, working out etc. I have some minor pain but I function ok.
Looks like I need to check out tumeric and HA

[wishlist]

28. I can always tell when I have forgotten to take my glucosasime for hip pain

I almost never suffer from hip pain since I started on glucosamine over 5 years ago. The few times I have felt hip pain seem to always be after I have inadvertently failed to take it for a few days. I am currently on a CVS brand with chondroitin. It is so nasty smelling and tasting though that I can't wait to finish it and return to just glucosamine alone as that seems to work just fine for me with no unpleasant odor or taste.

[Melissa G]

31. Glucosamine, chondroitin totally fixed my mother's hands and

helped my friend's mom to get rid of her walker. May not work for everyone, but I know two folks that swear by it. It did not help my MIL.

How much HA does one take? I use it on my face to keep my skin pretty. Had not heard of it for pain.

[HuckleB]

33. Thanks for posting.

Unfortunately, actual evidence doesn't mean much around here.

[jsamuel]

35. as someone who reads academic journals

You can't believe everything you read in them either. Authors often have a bias, just as they do in news journals. One study or multiple studies from the same source isn't always worthy of ruling out competing theories. It requires confirmation and replicable results from other sources before it is really adopted. This article is about a study from a single source. Not exactly hard proof. Show me the articles from other sources confirming and replicating the results from this study and then we'll talk.

[HuckleB]

36. First, this is a review.

See: http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4675.full

Second, I've actually posted links to other studies that have come to the same conclusion on this very thread.

[SheilaT]

39. My reaction to reading

the OP was, Well that's too bad.

Interesting to read all the posters who find that the stuff really does help them.

One honest problem with medicine of any kind is that individual results really do vary.

[HuckleB]

40. Pain Relief, Placebo and Profit

http://layscience.net/node/1103