Border sealed by webcam + worldwide watchers

[oscar111]

This can also cut the cost of sealing out birdflu by ending all inbound travel... cuts the cost, making it a real option now.

Could be used in both

1. the plan for sealing off north and south america from eurasia, using satellite views, and for

2. the other choice, a more difficult plan of sealing just the USA, at our Mexican + Canadian borders. {Ports are easily sealed.. just tell ships not to come}

Other nations, eg. Rumania, France, Norway,.. might use it for sealing their borders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5040372.stm#top

FOR MORE ON MY IDEA OF SEALING BOTH NORTH and south america from birdflu from eurasia {europe, asia and in this case, also africa}
.... go to... National Security forum...{note.. migrating birds are a colorful but tiny hazard.. overblown factor.. less than one percent of the problem}


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=116x12860

[MercutioATC]

1. Yes, they can monitor...but how do they "seal off"?

That requires responders for every inch of North, Central, and South American coastline.

How do you propose to do that?

[oscar111]

4. coast... few could even try to cross the oceans

those with big yachts, or planes from say Iceland or Siberia.. would easily have their engine's infrared heat signature spotted by our existing infrared satellites or these webcams in some places..

and the few who try to cross to our shore, could easily be met with whatever is needed... from scrambled F-16's with sidewinder missiles, most likely. Scrambled from carriers where ever the carriers might be placed.. just as we place carriers all over the globe now.. some are already in the Pacific area. Or, cheaper cruise missiles could be used in some cases. I expect several warnings would be adequate for the overwhelming majority of offenders. Only psychos would challenge our Air Force just for trade or travel reasons.

One carrier with planes and cruise missiles might cover a coastline of 6 thousand miles... more with refueling.

FROM THE OUTER LIMITS OF SPECULATION... Recently it was pointed out that ICBMs with plain dynamite warheads could replace cruise missiles.. giving us the ability to send ordinary dynamite to the other side of the world ... cheaper than by sending a carrier. So ICBMs, odd as it sounds to the unimaginative, could guard every inch of the americas coastlines. But then, only a very few could try to cross the oceans. Warnings would handle most of those. I only add this note about ICBMs to make the list of options complete. I don't think they would be necessary. It really sounds like overkill to me.

Since very few could even try to cross oceans, our forces would have the manpower to meet those very few. Coast guard cutters might handle some of them.

[MercutioATC]

5. It only takes a 30-foot sailboat to cross an ocean...

...do you have any idea how many 30+ foot sailboats there are in the world?

...what about people crossing in kayaks from Russia?

Do you really expect every nation in the Americas to sign up for this program? If not, are you prepared to unilaterally enforce their borders? And, if we do, are you really prepared to shoot a $1M+ cruise missile at every heat signature that approaches the tens of thousands of miles of coastline you'd be protecting?

Are you going to shut down the fishing industry in the entire western hemisphere? How are you going to feed those dependant on fishing for food?

How are you going to supply the Caribbean and Pacific islands with supplies? Are you going to just let them starve? Are we going to simply write Hawaii off?

Are you going to allow air travel within the Americas? If so, how are you going to prevent hundreds of small planes flying below radar coverage from going wherever they wish? Are you going to scramble F-16s for every Cessna that isn't where it's supposed to be?


This plan also completely ignores the fact that H5N1 in its current state will be in the Americas next year...brought by birds. Once it's here, it could mutate into an H2H strain as easily as it could mutate someplace else. Even if it WAS possible to seal off the western hemisphere from humans, I think we'd both agree that keeping birds out would be completely impossible.


I know you've been shopping this plan around here for a couple of weeks. It's not a very well-thought-out proposal. It would be nearly impossible to seal U.S. borders. It's exponentially more difficult to seal off an entire hemisphere.

[oscar111]

7. answers...

sailboats, kyaks... slow enough to spot the body heat. Again, only psychos would go up against warnings from our Navy. But i applaude your creativity.

I hope all our friends to the south and north will like protection from the pandemic.. see my journal entry, top right of that journal. As to cost, again , only a few psychos will challenge our Navy for mere tourism or trade.

As to fishing boat businessmen, i am not happy for them,.. but seven million lives are worth the pause in their activities.
============================
NOW, A VALUES MOMENT ....
I don't value business profits over human life. It is only a pause in business, not a final end of any kind.
=============================

What will fishermen eat? They would qualify for food stamps. A bigger mess would be the other future.... seven million, soon to die, wondering "how do i live thru birdflu?". That question has NO answer, no cure. Only prevention -- such as sealing borders.

Supplying the carib and pacific islands... i don't think they are highly dependent on eurasian imports.. too expensive. The basics could come as now.. from us and mainland neighbors. Hawaii could be inside the shield.. that could be decided later by border experts.

All air tourists and trade convention air travel would pause. We did it on nine/eleven at a moments notice.

Small planes like cessnas would only be able to cross in the three problem areas... see Journal.. and again, only a few psychos would challenge warnings from our military.

You are sane.. would you challenge our military from a Cessna? I didn't think so.

Migratory birds are colorful, but a tiny part of the whole problem. Expert concensus is that the crucial mutation will happen in poor crowded Asia, then reach our shores by human travellers.

IF we let travellers in. Which we should not.

If you want future answers, try to be less hotheaded and personal in how you pick phrases. Thank you.

[MercutioATC]

8. A human leaves a smaller heat signature than a polar bear.

...are we going to scramble on bears and wolves?

"Only psychos"? Tell that to thousands of Cubans and Haitians who try this every year. I also doubt that all of our "friends" to the south will sign on to have their airspace and costal regions occupied by the U.S.

I think you're missing the point about fishermen. They don't eat fish because they can't afford Toaster Streudel...they eat fish because fish is all they have. In many places, there's no distribution system to provide other foodstuffs in sufficient quantity to feed the population. You're proposing that eliminating a primary food source can be offset by providing "food stamps"? What are they going to buy with those food stamps??

Supplying islands? Even if they get supplies from us, that entails using boats or planes for transportation. Are you planning to have the military make all of the deliveries or are you going to take the chance of letting private pilots and/or private companies make the deliveries? How are you planning to stop them from flying other places (for that matter, unless you ground every private plane and boat in the hemisphere you're going to run this same risk).

[depakid]

2. That's absurd

You can't seal borders against avian influenza- or commerce- or migration.

[oscar111]

3. Your 3 points... 1. Commerce halted on nine/eleven.

No plan, and on a moment's notice, suddenly NO planes fly. We could halt ships as easily.


2. migration.. Gov perry thinks we can. I agree.

as to avian.. migratory birds.. see the OP.. a tiny factor.

[Celebration]

6. bird flu

Don't get me wrong, I am all for border security. It is just that bird flu is not on the top of my list of worries for the moment. Do you know something that I don't know? I mean, first of all we have been through this with SARS, haven't we? It seems a little deja vu-ish. We don't know when the next pandemic will occur, we don't know when the next tsunami will occur, we don't know when the next earthquake will occur, we don't know when the next meteorite will hit, we don't know when the next levee will break, we don't know..................., we don't know...................we don't know.

[oscar111]

9. right.. timing is not known

it might never happen.

I am just looking at plans that would work if it does happen.

I hope you are right, and nothing happens.

[Warpy]

10. That Golden Triangle heroin will still get in

and so will all the smuggled undocumented workers. There is no way to seal off the coastline, not unless we all rush to the coasts and link arms or something. Much coastline is rugged and still undeveloped.

You can't seal a disease out. The best thing you can hope for is to prevent it.

Too bad we dismantled the infrastructure for doing that, isn't it?