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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 02:21 PM
Original message
Report linking autism to vaccines is retracted by medical journal
"Wakefield's words and actions led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates in both Britain and the United States and a resurgence in measles. Despite multiple subsequent studies that have refuted the link, vaccination rates have remained lower than they were before his report, and many parents remain concerned about the potential effects of the lifesaving vaccines."

"The action came less than a week after the U.K. General Medical Council's Fitness to Practice Panel concluded that Wakefield had provided false information in the report and acted with "callous disregard" for the children in the study. The council is now considering whether Wakefield is guilty of serious professional misconduct. A positive finding could cause him to lose his medical practice."

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-wakefield3-2010feb03,0,3136800,print.story

The Lancet issues a retraction on the 12-year-old paper by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, which had said the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism. The report led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates.

By Thomas H. Maugh II

9:34 AM PST, February 2, 2010

Twelve years after Dr. Andrew Wakefield published his research in the international medical journal the Lancet purporting that the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism, the journal on Tuesday formally retracted the paper.

...

Wakefield's study, conducted on only 12 children, concluded that the MMR vaccine is a primary cause of autism. He subsequently said that he could not, in good conscience, recommend that parents have their children vaccinated.

...

"This will help to restore faith in this globally important vaccine and in the integrity of the scientific literature," Dr. Fiona Goodlee, editor of the BMJ -- formerly the British Medical Journal -- said Tuesday in a statement. On Monday, Goodlee had joined the chorus of scientists urging Lancet to withdraw the paper.

The original report "was outrageous," said Dr. Jeffrey Boscamp of the Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey. "Most of the authors asked for their names to be removed from the study. It's unfortunate that it undermined confidence in vaccines when in fact it wasn't true at all."

Wakefield, who now practices in Austin, Texas, said the accusations against him were "unfounded" and "unjust." Other researchers, however, are happy to put the episode behind them so they can go on with the difficult task of finding the true causes of the disorder.

[email protected]

Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh boy
:popcorn:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. ^^^. Yeah.
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R! n/t
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. THis is clearly an attack-piece by The Lancet
Against, um, The Lancet.


Kudos to them for the retraction.

:applause:


K/R
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. link to cnn article and LBN post
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Wakefield's words and actions led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates in both Britain and the US."
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 04:03 PM by mzmolly
An unsubstantiated crock.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. "unsubstantiated" which is why it's in the health forum
:rofl:

for my next trick, i'll explain the health benefits of magnets.

:hide:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. "MMR vaccination compliance dropped sharply in the UK."
"After the controversy began, the MMR vaccination compliance dropped sharply in the United Kingdom, from 92% in 1996 to 84% in 2002. In some parts of London, it was as low as 61% in 2003, far below the rate needed to avoid an epidemic of measles<75>. By 2006 coverage for MMR in the UK at 24 months was 85%, lower than the about 94% coverage for other vaccines.<1>"

Since this is wikipedia, here are the references.

1. ^ a b McIntyre P, Leask J (2008). "Improving uptake of MMR vaccine". BMJ 336 (7647): 729–30. doi:10.1136/bmj.39503.508484.80. PMID 18309963.

75. ^ Murch S (2003). "Separating inflammation from speculation in autism". Lancet 362 (9394): 1498–9. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(03)14699-5. PMID 14602448.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy#cite_note-74
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thank you for substantiating that claim. eom
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's not substantiated
as it relates to the US. Not sure about the UK? All I can find is indication of a slight drop of less than 2% after the Wakefield study. That might be a normal variation?

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You're not sure about the UK?
Say what?

Again, I'm not going to bother discussing this matter with you, anymore.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Please enlighten me about the long term coverage levels,
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 06:47 PM by mzmolly
in the UK prior to Wakefields assertions. I think that's the only way a case can be made that any resurgence in disease is due to Wakefield and his assertion on MMR.

Also note this point - Wakefield suggested single vaccines vs the MMR.

At a press conference before the paper's publication, Wakefield said that he thought it prudent to use single vaccines instead of the MMR triple vaccine until this could be ruled out as an environmental trigger, given that parents of eight of the twelve children studied were said to have blamed the MMR vaccine, saying that symptoms of autism had set in within days of vaccination at approximately 14 months. He declared, "I can't support the continued use of these three vaccines given in combination until this issue has been resolved."<17> In a video news release issued by the hospital to broadcasters in advance of the press conference, he called for MMR to be "suspended in favour of the single vaccines."<18> In a BBC interview Wakefield's mentor Roy Pounder, who was not a coauthor, admitted the study was controversial, and added: "In hindsight it may be a better solution to give the vaccinations separately, although administratively it is a wonderful idea. When the vaccinations were given individually there was no problem."<19> These suggestions were not supported by Wakefield's coauthors nor by any scientific evidence.<20>

My position is not that Wakefield is or isn't a hack. He obviously did some unethical things. HOWEVER, it weakens the case from a pro-vaccine perspective when information is not entirely accurate.

PS, I clicked the link without reading your post in full. My apologies for not reading more carefully initially.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. Did you even read that post?"..the MMR vaccination compliance dropped sharply in the United Kingdom"
"After the controversy began, the MMR vaccination compliance dropped sharply in the United Kingdom"

I don't see anything there about asparagus!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Did you even read the OP?
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 11:37 AM by mzmolly
"Wakefield's words and actions led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates in both Britain and the United States."

I don't know about the UK but the US saw an increase if anything. However this doesn't stop numerous reporters from falsely claiming the US has seen mass decline in vaccination. It's simply not true.

I read the post and replied thusly -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=82168&mesg_id=82191
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. You are welcome.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The claim in the OP is that rates droped sharlpy in the US and UK
which as you know, is false as it relates to the US as a whole, (according to the CDC.)

Do you have any long term data on UK vax compliance rates?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm not playing your little game.
The proof is there, and you can go with your usual denials, and ignore the issue with non-vaccination pockets in the US, and I don't care.

Again, it's clear that you have an agenda, and that data doesn't mean anything to you on this matter. Considering how clear the data is for Britain, your agenda is even more transparent.

I won't be responding to you on this matter again.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. The proof is where exactly? Your link took me to references, which took me to a
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 06:39 PM by mzmolly
study I do not have access to. I see your quote, but don't know what study backs it up.

My agenda is for accurate information as not providing it weakens the credibility of those "selling" vaccines.

Have a nice evening HuckleB.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Your agenda is not for accurate information.
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 10:38 PM by HuckleB
You know the truth about this matter, and yet you continue to BS about it.

I have had it with your BS on these matters. Please do not give me any more nonsense responses. You have gone over the deep end here, and thus your agenda is ridiculously clear. If you think you're fooling anyone, try again.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'm surprised
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 12:56 AM by mzmolly
at your tone and misrepresentation of the facts Huck.

This is the first sentence in the OP, and it is patently false as it pertains to the US.

"Wakefield's words and actions led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates in both Britain and the United States and a resurgence in measles."

I demonstrated to you recently that according to CDC (the authority on vaccination data, including compliance levels/vaccine coverage levels in the US) has steadily increased over the past four decades.

Rates in the US for MMR coverage/compliance percentages over the past decade and beyond are as follows:

http://cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/coverage.pdf


1995 = 87.6
1996 = 90.7
1997 = 90.5
1998 = 92
1999 = 91.5
2000 = 90.5
2001 = 91.4
2002 = 91.6
2003 = 93
2004 = 93
2005 = 91.5
2006 = 92.4
2007 = 92.3


Adding the reported cases of measles in the same years:

1995 = 309
1996 = 508
1997 = 138
1998 = 100
1999 = 100
2000 = 86
2001 = 116
2002 = 44
2003 = 56
2004 = 37
2005 = 66
2006 = 55
2007 = 43



*2007 is the last year we have completed data from the CDC as it takes them time to verify*

However, the data we do have is quite clear, Andrew Wakefield and his lone study have had NO demonstrable, nationwide effect on measles vaccine compliance rates in the US. Unless one considers the possibility that his assertions are responsible for an increase in MMR vaccination coverage levels? ;) It is also clear that Dr. Wakefield was not opposed to vaccination when he suggested a single jab measles vaccine vs. the MMR three way concoction. Supposedly he intended to profit from the single vaccine, right? And, it's false that Wakefield and his study have resulted in a "resurgence" of measles.

It's fine to disagree, but please don't imply that I'm lying or pulling statements of thin air. It irritates me when "reporters" and people who claim to be smarter than Fox News viewers buy into the same corporate generated hyperbole that many Republicans do.

Lastly, you know that I've recommended pro-vaccine threads of yours with accurate info. I've also posted pro-vaccine threads with accurate info, as my journal will demonstrate. Not sure how that fits the bizarre "agenda" meme.

Edited to add that you may have reason to feel differently about the data above. In the past, you've attempted to suggest the authoritative CDC data is not an accurate measure of US vaccine coverage levels. However I'm sure you can understand why I would feel it's far more accurate that anecdotal stories about a group of 20 home-schoolers in Oregon?

We'll have to agree to disagree it seems?

I'll not bother you again if you don't insinuate that I am a liar with an agenda. :P

Peace
:hi:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Awww...too bad.
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 05:08 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Any chance the vaccine-autism issue can finally be put to bed now?...
"Computah says no"

Sid
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Computah
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yes, there will always be the suckers/ignorant who refuse to accept science.
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 12:06 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
Luckily HuffPo will always be there to cater to them and publish their poorly researched nonsense.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yes indeed.
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 12:28 AM by mzmolly
Duplicate response as it pertains to the discussion.

Rates in the US for MMR coverage/compliance percentages over the past decade and beyond are as follows:

http://cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/coverage.pdf

1995 = 87.6
1996 = 90.7
1997 = 90.5
1998 = 92
1999 = 91.5
2000 = 90.5
2001 = 91.4
2002 = 91.6
2003 = 93
2004 = 93
2005 = 91.5
2006 = 92.4
2007 = 92.3


The data is clear, Andrew Wakefield and his lone study have had NO demonstrable, nationwide effect on measles vaccine compliance rates in the US. Unless one considers the possibility that his assertions are responsible for an increase in MMR vaccination coverage levels? ;)

*edited to update link
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. And that has *what* to do with the link you posted from HuffPo?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. It pertains to the false claims in the article.
"Wakefield's words and actions led to a sharp drop in vaccination rates in both Britain and the United States and a resurgence in measles."

Neither suggestion is true regarding the US. There are many articles that make this false claim, in spite of the definitive, authoritative CDC data, which refutes any such notion.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. So in other words, it has nothing to do with Kirby's woefully pathetic HuffPo opinion piece
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. It has more to do with responding
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 12:53 AM by mzmolly
to your assertion in the post I replied to. The scientific data (according to the CDC) indicates that vaccine coverage levels in the US have NOT declined and measles rates have NOT increased in the years following the Wakefield study.

G-night SD. :hi:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. The assertion that there will always be people who refuse to believe facts?
Yes, you demonstrated that there will always be those people. Considering that people still deny evolution and germ theory, this is not surprising.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Indeed I did.
:hi:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
39. In the UK, MMR vaccination rates went down from 95% to 83% after Wakefield's claims.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. What about the stand alone measles vaccine?
That is what Wakefield recommended in place of the MMR combo. I'd be interested in complete data on vaccines in the UK if you know where it can be found.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Don't be giving me evils, you Big Pharma Shill!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
32. What I wasn't aware of until recently, and what I find INCREDIBLY laughable...
is that Wakefield, who is a cult-like hero to the anti-vaxers, actually had a patent out for a new measles vaccine! HE WAS PART OF THE PRO-VAX BIG PHARMA GLOBAL CONSPIRACY! He spread FUD concerning the existing vaccine so that HIS vaccine could gain a market advantage.

And the anti-vaxers bought in like they do EVERY TIME, hook, line, and sinker. :rofl:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I didn't know that either.
It's like a badly written TV movie. Oy. :eyes:
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
35. Here in Britain, the RW media has a lot to answer for too
They pushed this Wakefield crapfest for 20 years, ignoring the evidence to the contrary of the anti-vaxxers. The Daily Mail et al pushed memes that supported their conspiracy theory-minded and reactionary anti-science philosophy.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. You are right there!
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
36. With the facts against them Dr. Wakefield’s supporters appeal to emotion
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. The Great Communicator was cut from the same cloth:
A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.
From an address given on March 4, 1987

You can't get more certifiably insane than that: "The irrefutable facts say one thing, but I still believe something diametrically opposed to those facts."


I wonder what the anti-vax crowd would think about being of the same intellectual species as our dearly departed 40th?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I don't think they'd think about it.
Well, then again, thought is not their thing, it appears.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. How not to report science and medical news, vaccine edition
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
41. "This testimony exposes the MMR hypothesis as totally dead in the water."
Full quote: "This testimony exposes the MMR hypothesis as totally dead in the water. What a waste of time, money and health."

Read more: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/02/wakefield-oleary-and-bustin/#ixzz0eclFV9Qe
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/02/wakefield-oleary-and-bustin/
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. The rabid anti-vaxers will never, EVER give up on their heroes.
Or their religiously-held hypothesis. You can't convert a fanatical religious Muslim or Christian using facts, why should we expect to change the minds of their analogues in the medical world?

I thought *for sure* the revelation that Wakefield had a COMPETING VACCINE in the works would have nullified him in the anti-vax movement - but they don't care! He's a victim of the GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO KILL OR MAIM ALL CHILDREN WITH VACCINES!!!!WTFOMGELEVENTY!!!1
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. .



:hi:
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mike michaeloff Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
46. Vaccines & Autism
The following is an very relevant article for this discussion.

OLMSTED, THE AMISH AND AUTISM
AmishBy Mark Blaxill

2008

Pt 1 http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/olsted-the-amis.html
Pt 2 http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/olsted-the-am-1.html

When I was in 7th grade at a small parochial school back in 1958, our teacher, Mr S. came in from lunch & found some of the boys playing with the mercury from a broken thermometer. (I was just watching, I swear it.)
He explained very emphatically & at length that this element was very poisonous & dangerous & was something definitely not to be played with or even touched. And we all took careful note & paid very close attention because this was back when they could hit you & your parents would thank them & usually give you a little extra talking to or more as they thought necessary & the Government & everybody was just fine with that whole program.
Now this was a man with no medical or science education beyond a Bachelor's degree in Education. And are you telling me that from that time until about 1990 or so, (& for most, even to today) all the 100's of thousands of highly educated Drs & researchers working for PharmaCorp, the Federal regulatory bodies, the State & local Public Health Services, & the local Drs, all from many advanced nations, nobody of all these people ever said, "Hey guys, wait a minute. I just remembered something from High School chemistry. Maybe injecting this mercury preservative stuff into young children 38 times might not be such a good idea after all, what you do you think, fellas?"
And what is the so very important purpose of this mercury compound? To preserve the multi-dose vaccination container which saves the relatively small amount of money compared to making single dose containers. And God forbid they use a safe natural preservative like vitamin C. No, we have to use mercury, nothing else will do.
When you are dealing with the lives & health of children, extra caution ought to come before profits. Autism was almost unheard of until the the late 1980's. It is probably just a coincidence that childhood vaccinations began to greatly increase in number about that time. Parents should not have to prove these vax are dangerous, Pharma needs to prove they are safe & all precautions have been taken. I do not believe they have done this.
For those who believe the several studies that prove there is no Autism- Vax link, please Google "Pharmaceutical fraud." This industry has a long & proven record of rigging studies, reports, articles, & much other illegal activity for reasons of profit. They have no moral superiority over Enron.
Because of this rampant fraud, a former editor of the NEJM said,
"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical
research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted
physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in
this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two
decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine."
Marcia Angell, MD
For almost 20 years there has been a concerted campaign of disinformation seeking to absolve the Pharma industry of legal responsibility for the Autism epidemic. They desperately want to direct attention to a genetic cause or pollution in general so that it is nobody's fault. After all, at $3 million per child, we're talking about 10 TRILLION dollars. Not to mention a perp walk & prison time for those responsible. I've seen people in the news that have murdered for just the $30 dollars in somebody's pocket.
And a growing epidemic of genetic origin is an impossibility.
It would be wise to not discount the many thousands of parents' testimony that their child regressed shortly after a vaccination, & in several cases that I've read, within a few days.
Please note that I have spoken with calmness & respect. Take notice of the tone of some of the previous & following dissenting replies. Truth is rarely on the same side as nasty.
Mike
PS Most Anxiety related disorders like Panic, Phobias, ADD, OCD & behaviors such as Alcoholism, & sex addiction are due to Pyroluria, a multi-resistant infection.

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Nope, sorry, it's not.
The Amish have autism too, as do children in regular society who haven't been vaccinated. Ponder that one while you blame vaccines for everything.

Nor is elemental mercury the same as methylmercury, or ethylmercury. (Google 'em and learn.) Basic chemistry was never an anti-vax strong suit though.

Nor was any form of mercury EVER in the MMR shot, which was the subject of Wakefield's debunked and discredited studies. (By the way, did you know Wakefield had made a competing vaccine and that fostering doubt about the MMR shot was in his financial best interest?)
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Autism was NOT unheard of until the late 80s.
I studied developmental psychology in the early/mid 80s and autism was a prominent part of the course.

Also a recent study in the UK showed that if you use similar diagnostic criteria to those used nowadays, then the incidence of autism is similar in children, younger adults and older adults. This suggests that there has been no recent 'epidemic'. That doesn't rule out environmental contributions to autism (some pollutants, for instance, have been around for a very long time) but it makes it unlikely that they are of recent origin.

There is a strong genetic component to autism, and also some known environmental factors, such as prematurity and birth problems. It is at least possible that prenatal exposure to toxins contributes to the risk of autism - but this has received little study because of the focus on vaccines.

As regards mercury: this was never included in the MMR vaccine.

'Most Anxiety related disorders like Panic, Phobias, ADD, OCD & behaviors such as Alcoholism, & sex addiction are due to Pyroluria, a multi-resistant infection.'

Huh? This sounds most unlikely; and most clinical psychologists and doctors don't seem to think so. Does someone in the Pharma industry want to profit from a treatment for Pyroluria perhaps?




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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Meh, that is just typical thinking from the anti-vax/alt-med crowd.
They long to blame a wide range of diseases - all diseases, if they can - on a very simple-sounding problem. One latches on to the bogus acid/alkaline diet nonsense. Another thinks everything is due to a lack of Vitamin D. Yet another thinks we just don't drink enough water. And another blames everything on yeast - it used to be Candida, but now evidently it's Pyroluria. At least at the quack website that this guy reads.

It'd be nice if they could get together and beat each other up first for a unified theory - the winner might just emerge from that grudge match with something none of them (to date) have ever had: actual evidence. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
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mike michaeloff Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Reply
If I understood correctly, the previous 3 replies were saying,
1. mercury was never in the MMR vaccine.
The FDA website states:
"Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines."
2. The Amish have autism also.
Yes but at a fraction of the rate of non-Amish.
3. Autism has been around for a long time.
Not at the tremendously increasing rates of incidence that we have seen in the last 25 plus years.
4. Big Pharma already makes Billions from ignoring the probable infectious origin of mental/emotional problems. They are called SSRI's. This month's Newsweek has an article, "The Depressing news about Anti-depressants," which indicates that SSRI's are very close in effectiveness to placebos.

But we can all trust Big Pharma, because our health is their primary concern. These are the people that lobbied (bribed) a law through Congress to disallow Medicare from negotiating volume discounts like the VA receives. So their high ethics would never allow them to engage in a disinformation campaign & cover up for mere Trillions.

This is my first visit to this website. So far I've not noticed a very friendly or reasonable attitude. Instead, there is more than a hint of the same hostility, condescension, arrogance, & overuse of mockery that drove me away from Fox News. Democrats should avoid sounding too much like Rush. It is better to defeat him & his ideas rather than imitate his style. Nasty is rarely on the same side as Truth.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. You're wrong on all counts.
1. http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-thimerosal.htm#11
11. Do measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines contain thimerosal?

No, MMR vaccine does not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.


2. Making any pronouncements about the Amish is going to be difficult because they are a relatively isolated society. But the point is, even the unvaccinated Amish have autism. You did not do anything to disprove that statement, and in fact admitted it.

3. Read LeftishBrit's post again. Autism has been around for a very long time, and indications are it's always been about 1% of the population. There is no epidemic.

4. Red herring.

So far I've not noticed a very friendly or reasonable attitude.

That's too bad. I don't think that baseless speculation and false information should ever get a warm reception, but that's just me.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Seems like you've got your own axe to grind...
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Funny, all the accusations us pro-science people have had to endure about being "paid shills"...
and here's a guy with his own website selling a "cure."

Laughable.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
54. The allure of snake oil for parents of autistic children
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