Statins and our health - are anti-cholesterol drugs worth It?

[truedelphi]

A close friend of mine revealed to a group of us yesterday that her doctor pestered her so much about not being on anti-cholesterol drugs that she finally went on them.

Now, five weeks later, and she has developed Bell's Palsy. She feels terrible, as she knew that these were risky. She had heard a lot of "anecdotal" reports about friends of friends, etc.

I myself would be on statins except for DU. Yes, several years ago, there was a discussion up about the new anti-cholesterol drugs. So many people here complained of first hand knowledge of huge decreases in people's health - including relatives that became ALS patients almost within a year of taking statins, that I realized as a patient, I MUST be wary of them. (I figure any topic that has only 250 responses with about 45 responses discussing huge risks points out huge dangers. Especially if it is not monopolized by one poster, but dozens of posters pointing out their family's bad experiences.)

My doctor of two years ago refused to back down: with my cholesterol at an "outrageous high" of 160, she wanted me on them or else to switch doctors.

So I switched doctors, to one of the better physicians I have ever had.

And now I came across this link:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread50771.html


And like one of the commentators over at the link is saying, now doctors are finding reasons to put children on these drugs!

Please note: Before you reply that the doctors have to prescribe these, as no one should have a heart attack, I know of no studies that show that the cholesterol drugs, used alone, help you avoid heart attacks. If you know of such a study, please reference it. Note that the ads even state that you must make serious diet changes and exercise, in order to be healthier.

Also, it is long believed in some circles that it is our homogeinized dairy products -that causes Americans to have so many heart attacks. (Also our stressful life styles, but living in such a crazy society, what can we do about that?)

In Denmark, where people's average cholesterol ratings are much higher, the dairy products are NOT homogenized. Therefore, the particles resulting from dairy products are not small enough to infiltrate the arteries, and the heart. Then there is also the fact that the Danes eat a lot more fish, with its healthy Omega fats, than we do.

[DesertFlower]

1. i've had high lipids for years even though

i rarely eat meat or fats. my liver produces too much. i refuse to use cholesterol lowering drugs.

people with low cholesterol have heart attacks too.

[Remember Me]

7. Yes, your body produces cholesterol because you need it

One of its many uses in the body is to protect the inside of your blood vessels which rupture and tear (minutely) in response to acidic conditions and free radicals, etc. An acidic diet is basically the S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) -- high on refined carbohydrates, chemicals, sugars (and usually meats and dairy, whether high fat or not).

When people cut down on or eliminate the acidic portions of their diet they usually do not have so much cholesterol.

I've come to understand something we've been told for generations if not eons: The body knows how to heal itself. And basically, it has more wisdom in its activities than given credit for. Western medicine tends to want to struggle it into submission and force -- violently, if necessary -- it to do differently, suppress those natural activities, and that is counterproductive in the long run.

A few years ago I was utterly convinced that Mr. Remember Me had early Alzheimer's. It was a terrible thing to live with (for me) because it's such a devastating disease, and I suffered greatly during that time. One day I finally convinced my husband (thru an article) that he needed to tell his doctor about his growing muscle weakness as a possible side effect of Lipitor and his doctor jerked him off Lipitor faster than you can imagine! A few months later I realized he was no longer exhibiting the cognitive difficulties that had convinced me he has Alzheimer's. I now refer to that period as his Lipitor Poisoning period.

[DesertFlower]

2. you might also be interested in this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRcZZROphLM&feature=player_embedded

[truedelphi]

5. This is a really mean thing to say, but

Nurses are so righteous about how valuable vaccination happens to be.

To a person, none of the nurses I know of have anything pleasant to say to those of us who have been damaged by vaccines.

Doesn't matter if it happens to be Guilluaume Barre disease, as I suffered from the swine flu back in the seventies, to those of us who are attempting to explain the connection between vaccines and autism.

Those of us who are aware of how dangerous vaccination happens to be are the pariahs of the world. This nurse is terribly afflicted now - but what would she have said about shots if she herself had been put in charge of the County "Well Baby" Clinics?

And there is this:

The lover of suicide-or-murder victim Rebeccah Zahau was on the FDA's approval commission - Now he is a person of interest.

Jonah Shacknai is a pharmaceutical company tycoon, and he was in the FDA approving medicines for our use.

Is there something wrong with this picture??????? No wonder the FDA routinely approves drugs that kill.


'Jonah Shacknai
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Medicis Pharmaceutical Corporation

Jonah Shacknai, founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Medicis Pharmaceutical Corporation since 1988, has an extremely well diversified corporate and public service background. From 1977 until late 1982, Mr. Shacknai served as chief aide to the House of Representatives' committee with responsibility for health policy, and in other senior legislative positions. During his service with the House of Representatives, Mr. Shacknai drafted significant legislation affecting health care, environmental protection, science policy, and consumer protection. He was also a member of the Commission on the Federal Drug Approval Process, and the National Council on Drugs. From 1982 to 1988, as senior partner in the law firm of Royer, Shacknai, and Mehle, Mr. Shacknai represented over 30 multinational pharmaceutical and medical device concerns, as well as four major industry trade associations. Mr. Shacknai also served in an executive capacity with Key Pharmaceuticals, Inc., prior to its acquisition by Schering-Plough Corporation. In November 1999, Mr. Shacknai was selected to serve on the Listed Company Advisory Committee to the New York Stock Exchange (LCAC). The LCAC was created in 1976 by the New York Stock Exchange board to address issues that are of critical importance to the Exchange and the corporate community. In May 2002, Mr. Shacknai was honored with a Doctorate of Humane Letters by the NYCPM (affiliate of Columbia University College of Physicians & Surgeons), and in the Fall of 2001, he received the national award from the Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge®. In January 2000, Mr. Shacknai was selected as Entrepreneurial Fellow at the Karl Eller Center of the University of Arizona. Mr. Shacknai is president and director of the Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation, a ranch centered around special needs children, and is an honorary director of Delta Society, a public service organization promoting animal-human bonds. He is also a director of the Southwest Autism Research & Resource Center and the World Craniofacial Foundation, and a director of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. In 1997, he received the Arizona Entrepreneur of the Year award, and was one of three finalists for U.S. Entrepreneur of the Year. Mr. Shacknai has served as a member of the National Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Advisory Council of the National Institutes of Health, and on the U.S.-Israel Science and Technology Commission, both federal cabinet-appointed positions. Mr. Shacknai obtained a B.S. degree from Colgate University and a J.D. from Georgetown University Law Center.'

http://www.medicis.com/about/board_shacknai.asp

[DesertFlower]

6. i agree. actually a very active DUer who i

think is a retired nurse doesn't understand why i won't have a flu shot. she's a really nice person, but like so many has been brainwashed by the medical community. most people are. they don't question the doctors.

i have a primary care doc who is a DO, but i also see a naturapath. i relate much more to the naturapath.

my sister in law works at sloane kettering in new york. she eats lots of red meat. when they found her homosyteine levels high instead of telling her to cut back on the meat they gave her prescription strength folic acid.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. This book costs about 500 dollars. Why I ask myself. It is made of paper and the person

couldn't have done that much work.... I mean really.... oh wait, there are used paperbacks for 19 dollars. Much better.

http://www.amazon.com/Cholesterol-Myths-Exposing-Fallacy-Saturated/dp/0967089719/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320103819&sr=8-1
The Cholesterol Myths: Exposing the Fallacy That Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease

Review
...he is not a lone voice in the wilderness and he deserves to be taken seriously. -- Michael Gurr, PhD--Renowned Lipid Chemist

Dr. Ravnskov has done a magnificent service. . . must reading for all interested persons, nutritionists and physicians. -- Ray H. Rosenman, MD--Former Director of Cardiovascular Research, SRI

Dr. Ravnskov's measured and clear-eyed analysis actually serves as a sledgehammer that breaks down barriers to healthy, sensible eating. -- Sally Fallon, author of Nourishing Traditions --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
From the Author
The Cholesterol Myths is out of print. A new, updated and simplified version entitled Fat and Cholesterol are GOOD for You! is now available from amazon --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

[TexasProgresive]

4. Homogeinzed milk and atheriosclerosis.

I read a book years ago making the connection. Autopsies on dead military personnel during the Korean War reviled extensive arterial plaques in men who were far to young. It was thought that homogenizing milk was the culprit. It was not so much that the fat globules were smaller but that the mechanical process broke the membranes releasing enzymes that scarred the arterial walls.

[Remember Me]

8. You might also examine pasteurization which kills

some of the enzymes that are useful in assimilating cow products. I don't know for sure that arterial plaque is one of the problems, but pasteurized milk is UNhealthier for us humans because of the enzyme destruction.

But I'm not one who'll likely use unpasteurized dairy products, tho many do without problem.

[truedelphi]

14. Thank you for adding this information. n/t

[astral]

20. +1 !

[Lugnut]

9. I wouldn't take them.

My cholesterol is fine. My mothers was always sky high. She had two strokes and one TIA while she was taking Lipitor. One stroke caused her death last year.

[bemildred]

10. I generally ignore statements of the form "your risk of X increases Y% if you do Z".

Because, in fact, such statements say nothing whatsoever about me or my health. So generally, I also refuse to take drugs which are supposed to remedy such "problems", or any other speculative future harms I might come to for reasons that are, at best, fuzzy.

[Liberal Veteran]

11. I was prescribed Lipitor, but didn't take it, preferring to try diet/exercise/fish oil.

I had a heart attack last month due to a plaque blockage in my left anterior descending artery and had to have a stent placed. (I am 45 years old).

I'm thinking the decision to avoid the Lipitor probably wasn't wisest choice I made.

Just throwing out my anecdotal experience.

This time, I am actually taking the statin as prescribed.

[GeorgeGist]

12. It's likely you have dementia ...

since you use Newsmax as a reference.

[Warpy]

13. Most people who go on them don't develop rhabdomyolyisis

and your friend's Bell's palsy is most likely completely unrelated. A blood test for muscle breakdown markers will tell her whether or not there's any connection, and since the palsy is nerve paralysis rather than muscle weakness, don't expect there to be one. In any case, Bell's palsy is usually self limiting with no treatment, although some people do have residual drooping.

Personally, I think lipids are being overprescribed, but I do know people with genetically determined high cholesterol >300 who have early heart attacks and strokes who are alive 20 years later, largely as a result of these drugs. Anyone with a history of stroke, peripheral vascular disease or coronary artery disease can also benefit greatly from them.

As for the homogenized milk, I've often thought that was a bad idea. Besides, I always liked having a little cream you could carefully scoop off the top, save, and whip later for topping fresh berries.

[truedelphi]

15. I will pass on the information about the test You mention -

"A blood test for muscle breakdown markers will tell her whether or not there's any connection"

Thanks for that information

[eml1946]

16. No "usual" lab test for statin toxicity

Please NOTE: there DO NOT have to be derrangement of the "usual" lab tests with statin muscle myopathy. A muscle biopsy is needed to make the definitive diagnosis, and not many physicians will order this invasive test to prove statin toxicity. So if you are relying on lab tests, these do not exist unless one develops rhybdomyolysis.

http://stopped_our_statins.webs.com/impostertrial.htm
Evidence for Statin Toxicity without Rhabdomyolysis from Laboratory Models

Cell culture studies and animal models of statin toxicity have repeatedly demonstrated that histochemical and biochemical toxicity develops at doses well below those which cause rhabdomyolysis or CK enzyme leakage. In myocyte cell culture, statin toxicity causing morphological abnormalities, decreased protein synthesis and decreased ATP levels occurs at doses lower than those required to produce enzyme leakage or CK elevations. In a rabbit model, muscle toxicity and myotonia are not always associated with elevated CK. There is thus evidence that muscle toxicity occurs at statin dosages well below those required to cause rhabdomyolysis and it is reasonable that the muscle complaints of some patients on statins with normal serum CK might represent a toxicity below the threshold needed to trigger CK elevation.

[SheilaT]

17. Americans in general are incredibly

over-medicated. Over the years I've watched as the definition of what's abnormal gets so that it more and more includes a smaller and smaller variation from the "normal".

Personally, I don't do flu shots. I don't take any prescription medications at all, and I'm still the healthiest person I know. I'm 63 years old and still do head stands. I am not totally opposed to all medicine, and I have a very clear sense of what is life-saving or even life-improving and what leads to more and more interventions.

As to the Korean War cholesterol study, I've been long aware of it, and for about thirty years or more I've wondered to what extent the fact that the KW generation would have been almost entirely bottle-fed, usually with cow's milk that didn't begin to approximate human breast milk, how much that was a factor. My younger son gives blood regularly, and a couple of weeks after each donation he gets a letter telling him what his cholesterol is, and it's remarkably low. He, and his older brother, were both exclusively breast fed f(meaning no formula, no solid food)or the first six months, and altogether for two years each. Might there be a connection? I don't think anyone is looking at this possible connection.

[BadgerKid]

18. Re homogenization: sounds like correlation, not causation.

It's a mechanical breakup of the fat to distribute more uniformly in the fluid. Physically and chemically there is no difference.

Perhaps you mean raw vs. commercial milk? :shrug:

[hedgehog]

19. Can you explain your statement further? I don't have an opinion one way or the other

regarding homogenization. It is an interesting theory, IMO. I'd like to see some experimental evidence one way or another. But, breaking the fat into smaller particles is indeed a physical change. with other chemicals in the environment. There is now a larger surface area to mass ratio and possibly the smaller particles will react more easily with other chemicals.