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Governor Rick Perry’s Gardasil Vaccine ‘Mistake’ Cost Girls their Lives

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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:28 PM
Original message
Governor Rick Perry’s Gardasil Vaccine ‘Mistake’ Cost Girls their Lives

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/governor-rick-perrys-g... /


Reneging on Gardasil mandate in the Lone-Star State is an admission of guilt and should not be forgiven or forgotten.


According to VAERS analyst and SANE Vax team member Janny Stokvis, Governor Rick Perry should have been aware and taken action on the mounting injuries from Gardasil in Texas before an attempt to mandate the vaccine. VAERS reports one girl died post-Gardasil vaccination, there were 14 life-threatening situations and 31 girls became disabled after Perry’s attempt to issue an executive order. The effort to introduce the drug into Texas schools turned into one of Perry’s greatest defeats. His admission of a ‘mistake’ five years later is reprehensible.

Perry’s order would have become effective in 2008 and girls would be involuntarily immunized unless they ‘opted out’ upon entry to the 6th grade. Texas was the first state to require that schoolgirls get vaccinated against a multi-strain virus to prevent ‘cervical cancer.’ Unfortunately, the National Cancer Institute has not directly linked the virus to cervical cancer.1

Is this poor judgment from a man running for president?

During a 16 month investigation of Gardasil, side effects were documented in a disturbing number of cases to VAERS including 3,589 during a 16 month period.2 Even though thousands of girls reported adverse reactions to the vaccine, Perry found no reason to modify or withdraw his executive order. Those numbers have now risen to over 22,000 and yet, it took political posturing for Perry to admit his ‘mistake.’

-snip-
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd back up to 0. Why would anyone unreccommend a medical issue like this? nt.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Because it's a lie. This is a conspiracy theory website pushing falsehoods.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 12:40 PM by TheWraith
There is absolutely no scientific evidence of the vaccine being unsafe.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wrong. Supporting links are already posted in threads mentioned below
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 12:41 PM by proverbialwisdom
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Linking to other places a lie is repeated doesn't make it the truth.
There is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to suggest the vaccine is unsafe.

Pointing to 30-odd supposed reactions out of 35 million doses which have been used is an epic level failure to understand either statistics or medicine.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
70. See thread links in post #7 ( that got buried fast). NFM.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Because someone questions the safety of a vaccine doesn't make
them anti-vaccer's or the topic unworthy of discussion. Ask the thalidomide survivors if they'd have appreciated a more thorough investigation of the drug.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The fact that it is completely scientifically WRONG does make it unworthy of discussion, though.
Make no mistake: this is anti-science bullshit worthy of the climate change deniers.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So you say, and you're probably right. The Canadian doctors were told the same thing.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. How much do you know about statistics and medicine?
Enough to understand the idea that correlation does not equal causation?

How about enough to understand that vaguely believing something is not the same thing as having evidence for it? In this case, 35 million doses of vaccine have been given, and there have been no substantial wave of side-effects. This was expected, because contrary to what some people believe, vaccines are rigorously tested before they're ever used on human beings, let alone given wide distribution.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
67. The CDC might disagree with you.
Deaths

"As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender. Thirty two of the total death reports have been confirmed and 36 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil....
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. That snippet tells you everything you need to know about VAERS and why it's unreliable. n/t
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Why are legitimate concerns ridiculed? Why malicious/misleading name-calling, eg. 'anti-vaxers'?
Why is the issue whether Michele Bachman got it completely or just partially right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Safety Of The HPV Vaccine That Gov. Perry Made Mandatory In Texas......
Tue Sep-13-11 03:35 PM



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Michele Bachmann An Anti-Vaccine Wingnut?
Tue Sep-13-11 01:44 PM


Is all that burying the lead?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. The thread on your first link is great.
The responses make it clear that Bachmann is out to lunch on this issue, just like she is on most issues.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
71. Start with POST # 19. That would be my recommendation.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. You want me to start with debunked anti-vax misinformation?
Why would you want me to do that?

Seriously.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. These FACTS are nonpartisan.
Thank you very much for posting.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. HealthImpact is not a credible source of "facts."
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 12:38 PM by Ian David
The fact is that HPV does cause cervical cancer.

Any site or article that asserts otherwise can be dismissed out of hand.

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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Whistleblower here. Details, details, details.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 12:55 PM by proverbialwisdom
http://truthaboutgardasil.org/breaking-news-diane-harpe... /

October 2009 Interview
By Thaddeus M. Baklinski
October 28, 2009


A researcher with Merck Pharmaceutical who helped develop the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, has revealed that the controversial drugs will do little to reduce cervical cancer rates and may cause more illness than the disease they are intended to prevent. Dr. Diane Harper, director of the Gynecologic Cancer Prevention Research Group at the University of Missouri, and lead researcher in the development of the two vaccines, made these remarks during an address at the 4th International Public Conference on Vaccination in Reston, Virginia on Oct. 2-4. Dr. Harper has on several occasions warned that the vaccines were being “over-marketed” and the research on their potential side effects not properly carried out. Dr. Harper told CBS News on August 19, 2009 that “young girls and their parents should receive more complete warnings before receiving the vaccine” and that a girl is more likely to die from an adverse reaction to Gardasil than from cervical cancer. A report by Steven W. Mosher and Joan Robinson of the Population Research Institute (PRI), who attended Dr. Harper’s presentation at the Conference on Vaccination, states that although her talk was intended to promote the vaccine, it left many of the health professionals wondering if the drug should be given at all, considering its “poor promise of efficacy as a vaccine married to a high risk of life-threatening side effects.”

Gardasil, Dr. Harper explained, is promoted by Merck, the pharmaceutical manufacturer, as a “safe and effective” prevention measure against cervical cancer. The theory behind the vaccine is that, as HPV may cause cervical cancer, conferring a greater immunity of some strains of HPV might reduce the incidence of this form of cancer. In pursuit of this goal, tens of millions of American girls have been vaccinated to date. However, “I came away from the talk with the perception that the risk of adverse side effects is so much greater than the risk of cervical cancer, I couldn’t help but question why we need the vaccine at all,” said Joan Robinson, Assistant Editor at the Population Research Institute. Robinson added that she “did not wish to give the impression that Dr. Harper presented, even inadvertently, a consistently negative view of her own vaccine. She did tout certain ‘real benefits,’ chief among them that ‘the vaccine will reduce the number of follow-up tests after abnormal PAP smears,’ and thereby reduce the ‘relationship tension,’ ‘stress and anxiety’ of abnormal or false HPV positive results.

Dr. Harper Indicates Vaccine “will not lower the rate of cervical cancer in the US”

Dr. Harper also explained, however, that 70% of HPV infections resolve themselves without treatment in one year. After two years, this rate climbs to 90%. Of the remaining 10% of HPV infections, only half coincide with the development of cervical cancer. “Indeed,” Robinson continued, Dr. Harper “surprised her audience by stating that the incidence of cervical cancer in the U.S. is so low that ‘if we get the vaccine and continue PAP screening, we will not lower the rate of cervical cancer in the US.’” At this point Dr. Harper said that “with the use of Gardasil, there will be no decrease in cervical cancer until at least 70% of the population is vaccinated, and in that case, the decrease will be very minimal. The highest amount of minimal decrease will appear in 60 years.” In the US, the cervical cancer rate is 8 per 100,000 women, and is one of the most treatable forms of cancer. The current death rate from cervical cancer is between 1.6 to 3.7 deaths per 100,000 cases of the disease and is steadily declining due to traditional PAP tests and treatment. The PRI report points out that the most recent records from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) indicate 15,037 girls have officially reported adverse side effects from Gardasil in the US, and that the Center for Disease Control (CDC) acknowledges that there have been 44 reported deaths linked to the vaccine.

Less Than 10%, Maybe Even Less Than 1% of Vaccine Side Effects Reported

Of even greater concern is the probability that numbers of deaths and adverse effects are underestimated. Dr. Harper’s comments in an ABC News report concur with the National Vaccine Information Center’s claim that “though nearly 70 percent of all Gardasil reaction reports were filed by Merck, a whopping 89 percent of the reports Merck did file were so incomplete there was not enough information for health officials to do a proper follow-up and review.” The PRI report notes that “on average, less than 10 percent – perhaps even less than 1 percent – of serious vaccine adverse events are ever reported, according to the American Journal of Public Health.” PRI’s Steven Mosher concluded the report on Dr. Harper’s revelations by offering some thoughts on the intense promotion of Gardasil by not only the manufacturer of the vaccine, but by state and country government agencies...

http://truthaboutgardasil.org/breaking-news-diane-harpe... /

This article was written by Marcia G. Yerman, published on December 23, 2009. It can be found at: http://www.empowher.com/news/herarticle/2009/12/2 3/interview-dr-diane-m-harper-hpv-expert You can also find the article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marcia-g-yerman/an-interv... . This is a good place to leave comments.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Not a whistle blower. A quack. n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
66. Thaddeus Baklinski?
He is mainly noted for his articles at 'LifeSiteNews', fanatically opposing abortion and contraception. Here's one example, full of his own brand of 'facts':

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/sep/1...

Should he be considered as a reliable source?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Joking, right? NO, Dr. Diane Harper, obviously.

A researcher with Merck Pharmaceutical who helped develop the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, has revealed that the controversial drugs will do little to reduce cervical cancer rates and may cause more illness than the disease they are intended to prevent. Dr. Diane Harper...


Look her up. MIT, etc.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Uh.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/oct/10/ben-golda...

"...

Harper did not "develop Cervarix" but she did work on some important trials of Gardasil and also Cervarix. "Gardasil is not a 'sister vaccine' as the Express said, it is a different compound. I do not know of the side effects of Cervarix as it is not available in the US."

...

Here is the tragedy. In a clear example of how academics are often independent-minded about the interventions they work on, Harper is a critic of Gardasil, or more specifically of how it is marketed. Briefly, her view is that we do not yet know how long the protection from these vaccines will last, and this will affect the cost-benefit decisions.

She is concerned that aggressive advertising aimed directly at the public – which is not permitted in Europe – may lead people to falsely believe they are invincible to HPV (human papilloma viruses, some types of which can increase the risk of developing cervical cancer), and so neglect other precautions. She also suspects from modelling data that for the specific and restricted group ofwomen who are punctilious about attending every single one of their cervical cancer screening appointments, vaccination may have little impact on their risk of death from cancer; but even they will benefit from the reduction in reproductive problems caused by treating pre-cancerous changes in cervical cells.

..."




----------------


Harper is one individual, and does represent the scientific consensus. Her concerns focus on marketing (a concern of everyone in the health care field whom I've ever met) and some very nuanced concerns about the long-term value of the vaccine for some people.
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ellenrr Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #69
85. The Pharma-Plants here will never be persuaded by facts
altho perhaps others will be.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. A small correction.
The anti-science, anti-vaccine crowd will never be persuaded by facts. They will, of course, use ridiculous ad hominem nonsense in order to continue to push their pro-disease agenda.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. VAERS doesn't prove causality.
borrowed from HUCKLEB -- and this is more directly going to bachman -- but relevant here:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/09/13/140445104/pe...

'

The American Academy of Pediatrics would like to correct false statements made in the Republican presidential campaign that HPV vaccine is dangerous and can cause mental retardation. There is absolutely no scientific validity to this statement. Since the vaccine has been introduced, more than 35 million doses have been administered, and it has an excellent safety record.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the American Academy of Family Physicians all recommend that girls receive HPV vaccine around age 11 or 12. That's because this is the age at which the vaccine produces the best immune response in the body, and because it's important to protect girls well before the onset of sexual activity. In the U.S., about 6 million people, including teens, become infected with HPV each year, and 4,000 women die from cervical cancer. This is a life-saving vaccine that can protect girls from cervical cancer.'
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. What, the Michelle Bachmann argument here?
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 12:41 PM by frazzled
Sorry, but you are dead wrong:

Last night, carrying the mantle of fear and ignorance that are hallmarks of anti-vaccine activists, Bachmann denounced Texas Governor Rick Perry for mandating vaccines for schoolgirls, starting in the sixth grade, against the human papillomavirus.
“I’m offended for all the little girls and parents that didn’t have a choice,” she said. (Actually, any parent can opt out on a child’s behalf.) She said that girls who were harmed by the vaccine don’t get “a mulligan.” Later, the offended Bachmann ventured deeper into scientific illiteracy, telling Fox News that a woman had approached her after the debate and told her that she had a daughter who had “suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine.”

This is a particularly irresponsible way to speak, in part because it raises the memory of the deadly fiasco caused by the British physician Andrew Wakefield when he asserted that vaccines caused autism. That assertion has been withdrawn, Wakefield has been disgraced, and, after scores of studies, no correlation between vaccinations and autism has ever been found. But vaccine rates plummeted and diseases like measles and whooping cough, once nearly vanquished, came roaring back. The fear Wakefield caused has killed many children.

I wrote about the HPV vaccine and the Bush Administration’s opposition to science for this magazine in 2006. What was true then is true now: the vaccine has never been shown to interfere with the mental development of children. There is no evidence—not a study, no data, nothing—to suggest this cancer vaccine causes anything of the sort.

Perhaps it is worth remembering that HPV is the most common sexually transmitted disease in the United States; more than half of all Americans become infected at some point in their lives. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (C.D.C.), an estimated twenty million Americans are currently infected with HPV, and 6.2 million become newly infected each year. HPV is associated with cancers of the cervix, vagina, penis, anus, head, and neck, and with genital warts. Indeed, HPV is responsible for almost all of the twelve thousand cases of cervical cancer diagnosed in the United States annually. Cervical cancer claims the lives of three thousand seven hundred American women each year, as well as killing hundreds of thousands of women in the developing world.
There are two HPV vaccines currently available: Merck’s Gardasil and GlaxoSmithKline’s Cervarix. Both protect against the two HPV strains that cause seventy per cent of all cervical cancers. Gardasil also protects against HPV strains that are responsible for ninety-five per cent of all cases of genital warts. They are enormously effective, but the vaccines work best if girls complete a three-dose series of shots before they become sexually active. For this reason the C.D.C. recommends vaccinating girls between the ages of eleven and twelve.




Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/09/...


Furthermore, what does the CDC say about safety and dangers of the vaccine?

How many adverse events have been reported to VAERS in people who have gotten the HPV vaccine?

As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious*.

Have FDA and CDC changed their recommendations for the use of the HPV vaccine based on their vaccine safety monitoring?
While no vaccine or medicine is completely without risk, CDC and FDA have reviewed all of the safety information available to them on Cervarix and Gardasil. Based on this, CDC and FDA have determined that Gardasil is safe to use and effective in preventing 4 types of HPV.

CDC continues to recommend the vaccination of 11 and 12 year old girls with 3 doses of vaccine to prevent the types of HPV that most commonly cause cervical cancer and genital warts. The vaccine is also recommended for girls and women ages 13 through 26 who did not get any or all of the doses when they were younger.

Additionally, Gardasil protects males against most genital warts. This vaccine is available for boys and men, 9 through 26 years of age.

FDA has changed Gardasil’s prescribing information to involve information about preventing falls from fainting. CDC has taken steps to remind doctors and nurses about this same information. CDC is also adding this information to its educational material for parents.

*An adverse event, as defined by the Code of Federal Regulations, is considered serious if it is life threatening, or results in death, a persistent or significant disability or incapacity, congenital anomaly or birth defect, hospitalization, or prolongation of existing hospitalization.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/hpv_faqs....





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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. it's not going to go away -- you combine anti-science & sex & vaccinations --
& you get a whole new level of strange reactions.

i keep asking my self -- the left -- we are the smart ones -- right?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
74. Wakefield lost his UK license ALONG WITH the co-founder of the field of pediatric gastroenterology.
If that fact doesn't give you pause, you're simply not unbiased.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

...Dr. Wakefield, Dr. Murch and Dr. Walker-Smith wrote a joint paper. All were (mis)judged guilty of 'callous disregard.' Ultimately, Wakefield and Walker-Smith lost their UK licenses.

HOWEVER, Walker-Smith is "the founder of pediatric gastroenterology as an independent field," along with Dr. Alan Walker of Harvard Medical School, and the European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition decided in March 2010 to award Professor Walker-Smith its first distinguished service medal on the recommendation of Harvard Medical School professor, Alan Walker (incidentally, the co-founder of the specialty of pediatric gastroenterology as an independent field), to be presented in June.



When your guy acknowledges and addresses the concerns of whistleblower ARPAD PUTZAI ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81rp%C3%A1d_Pusztai ) about GMO foods, I'll pay attention to what he has to say on this topic. I heard Specter's emphatic pronouncement a week or two ago on WHYY radio that GMOs have been proven to be completely safe - A BLATENT LIE - during a discussion of 'test tube meat.' He's the one who is profoundly anti-science, although he sure supports industry and business.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/bios/michael_specter/... specter

His most recent book, “Denialism: How Irrational Thinking Hinders Scientific Progress, Harms the Planet, and Threatens Our Lives,” was published in October of 2009.



To that I say, here's the latest:

http://www.right2knowmarch.org /
Join the GMO Right2Know March Oct 1-16, 2011.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. So a bizarre and highly questionable red herring is what you offer as a response?
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 01:25 PM by HuckleB
Please do the right thing. Stop pushing anti-vaccination nonsense.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. 'Please do the right thing.' Do not mischaracterize me or direct your despicable innuendo toward me.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 01:25 PM by proverbialwisdom
I am requesting that your post be deleted.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. There is no justification for having my post deleted.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 01:26 PM by HuckleB
You have been pushing AoA, and associated anti-vaccination sites for the past several days. Your posts are many on this issue. Those sites are promoting the return of disease and death.

If my post mischaracterizes you, please explain how it does that in light of your postings.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Your errors are many.
To address your ridiculous claims in the order made: Age of Autism is most certainly not an anti-vaccination site and I am not pushing anything except factual information easily corroborated by any objective individual.

Rather than attack the messenger or conduit, why not grapple with the unpleasant truths referenced by AoA. Read the articles ther for the references cited, the analysis, and the insight.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Your entire first sentence is untrue.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 01:45 PM by HuckleB
See: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/11/the_annals_of... and... http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/12/age-of-autism-... / and... http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/age-of-aut... / to note just how clearly your first sentence is untrue.

I've spent many discussions showing that AoA pushes nothing but anti-vaccination fictions. In fact, I've given links showing just that to you recently. Odd that you fail to recognize any of that.

For just one link that shows the reality of AoA:

http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/category/orgs/age-of-a... /

For a legitimate source on issues related to autism:

http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org /

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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I know enough to recognize integrity when I see it.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 02:51 PM by proverbialwisdom
Integrity and original research - that's the reality of AoA and its contributors like Ginger Taylor.

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2011/01/matt-lau...

Matt Lauer, Anderson Cooper and George Stephanopoulos Adopt Skeptic Community/Science Media's Failing Tactics

January 21, 2011
By Ginger Taylor


A year and a half ago, my patience ran out with those in this debate pretending to be earnest seekers of truth, but whose words and actions revealed them to be closed and biased. I published an extensive piece detailing the problems I saw in the Skeptic movement (which I really now see as just the Contrarian movement, as they don't seem to be skeptical of some assertions that someone from Missouri would demand proof of, but merely oppose anything our community says no matter how reasonable) and in "science writers" who act as mere functionaries of Pharma and their friends/sometime employees in public health. It was entitled: "Chris Mooney, Sheril Kirshenbaum, Lori Kozlowski, Rosie Mestel, Thomas Maugh, David Gorski, Virginia Hughes, Science Journalists, The Dying of the LA Times and an Angry Autism Mom"
( http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2009/09/chris-mo... )

It details my earnest attempts to get through to these skeptics/science journalists, and an effort to point out that they are shooting themselves in the foot with their actions, and that our children are collateral damage in their efforts. Long story short... they are some pretty myopic people and not open to self-evaluation, so their tactics continue to loose them the vaccine/autism wars.

(*After I posted the piece, Dr. David "Orac" Gorski sent me a flattering email saying he had actually always respected me and asked me to remove the piece. When I declined, he let the insults fly again. So... not the most honest and straightforward guy.

A few months later, we learned that Gorski has spent the last several years developing a drug for vaccine maker Sanofi, which he had some how forgotten to mention in his hundreds of posts about these issues, ( http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financ... ) so I do feel a bit the sucker for approaching him as if he was actually a somewhat disinterested party in this debate. Had I known I would not have wasted so many hours trying to have a real discussion with him, but live and learn I guess.)

MORE AT LINK.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. As I already noted, that's not true.
The items you posted have already been debunked by prior links that I've posted recently.

Please stop pushing misinformation about vaccines. It is dangerous, and that is being kind.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. You should know about this.
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 05:00 AM by proverbialwisdom
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #84
88. I already know about that.
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 09:18 AM by HuckleB
You see, people are people. And most scientists and health care workers are working to create checks and balances on bad behavior.

Such a red herring is not an excuse to ignore the science that shows that HPV vaccines are safe and effective.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #74
113. No wonder the UK support group is called CRY SHAME ( http://www.cryshame.c.o.uk/ ).
http://journals.lww.com/jpgn/Fulltext/1999/11000/A_Trib...

Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology & Nutrition: November 1999 - Volume 29 - Issue 5 - p 14AArticles
A Tribute to Professor John Walker-Smith, ESPGHAN Editor 1995-2000

By Walker, W. Allan MD


With this issue of the Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Professor John Walker-Smith retires as the ESPGHAN Editor, a position he has held with distinction since 1995. As the continuing NASPGN Editor, I wish to pay tribute to John for his many contributions to the journal over this period of time and his accomplishments in the field of pediatric gastroenterology in general. During his tenure as Editor, many successful innovations have started that (in my view) have raised the quality of the journal to a new level. In January of 1997, a photograph from an article in each issue was printed as part of a new cover design. Response from our readership was universally positive. During the next 2 years, a Clinical Quiz section was started and the abstract for original articles was changed in design to represent a complete summation of the article with key words and references enclosed. In a questionnaire to the NASPGN readership last year, these changes were approved by a large percentage of the respondents. John, with a strong interest in medical history, initiated a "Historic Notes" section that has informed our young readership of major events that have helped to shape our subspecialty. Recently, a "News and Views" section was started to inform our readership quickly of events worldwide that affect the care of children with gastrointestinal problems. John, it has been a genuine pleasure working with you and your Associate Editors, Alan Phillips, Simon Murch, Deirdre Kelly, and Ian Sanderson, although I have to claim some credit for Ian because he started as a NASPGN Associate Editor before moving back to the United Kingdom.

Recently, John informed me of his intent to retire from the Chair in Pediatric Gastroenterology at the Royal Free Hospital, University of London next September in order to spend more time with his beloved family and to pursue his passion for the history of medicine (he is already Society of Apothecaries Lecturer in Medical History at the University of London). With that news, I thought it would be an appropriate occasion to reflect on John Walker-Smith's contributions to the field of pediatric gastroenterology. John began his training in adult gastroenterology as a House Physician to Professor Chris Booth at Hammersmith Hospital in the United Kingdom after medical school and pediatric training in his native Australia in the early 1960s. With this clinical background, he continued his training as a Research Fellow in Gastroenterology at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney and with Professor Prader in Zurich, Switzerland. He then began his academic career in the Royal Alexandra Hospital for Children in Sydney, attaining a position of Staff Physician before returning to the United Kingdom to establish one of the most prestigious training programs in pediatric gastroenterology history at the Medical College of St. Bartholomew's Hospital and the London Hospital Medical College at Queen Elizabeth Hospital for Children in 1973. From that time until the present, John has established himself as one of the premier, if not the premier, pediatric gastroenterologist in the world with a personal Chair in Pediatric Gastroenterology at St. Bartholomew's and, since 1995, at the Royal Free Hospital. His abilities as a clinician, clinical investigator, and educator through lectures, review articles, and textbooks have resulted in a worldwide following by former fellows, colleagues, and general pediatricians. Having been with John at meetings on numerous occasions around the world, I never cease to wonder at former fellows in the host country of the meeting wishing to spend time with their former mentor. John, you have contributed a great deal to the development and continued excellence of our field. We owe you a sincere debt of gratitude. We wish you well in your adventure as the Society of Apothecaries Lecturer in History of Medicine. Maybe we can convince you to write the definitive history of pediatric gastroenterology as a future assignment. With deep respect-

W. Allan Walker, MD
NASPGN Editor

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
76. Thank goodness there are still some journalists who understand science.
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Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great, more anti-vaxxer nonsense. NT
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is as ignorant as anything Bachmann said. Unrec.nt
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. A mistake ? What ? Perry blabs about our lives being taking
over by government yet he mandates immunization of an untested vaccine on young girls? Why parents would allow their children's bodies to be vaccinated with unknown substances is beyond me. While proven vaccinations have been effective in preventing illnesses, it is questionable whether this vaccine is even necessary or effective.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. What unknown substances? Really. Tell me what unknown
substances people are being vaccinated with. I'm breathless with anticipation.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Unknown in the sense that certain substances have not been
proven to be effective or necessary. I have not forgotten the thalidamide incidents that resulted in birth defects or the indiscriminate use of ritalin on young children.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Please educate yourself on these topics. Your arguments make
no sense. HPV vaccines contain know "unknown substances." They have been thoroughly tested. Now, with over 35 million people vaccinated, they have also been shown to be very safe for use. All vaccines can cause some side effects in some people. No causation has been shown with any of the adverse issues that have occurred after vaccination with the HPV vaccine. The overwhelmingly large majority of people have no side effects at all. The percentage of adverse health issues after vaccination is within the normal range of health issues in the general population and no causation has been shown.

Every vaccine was new when it was first introduced. The smallpox vaccine, for example was untested before it was used on humans. Today, vaccines are thoroughly tested before general use. By the time they are released for public use, the possible side effects are fully known. Vaccines of various types have saved countless lives. Small pox no longer exists, and polio will follow soon. Vaccine's are well-understood.

You are arguing from ignorance. That's easily enough corrected. I hope you will take the time to educate yourself.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. To try and indicate that someone is ignorant or uneducated
on a subject is a poor argument and uncalled for. Just bcause a person has an opinion on any subject is not cause to question their knowledge of any subject. I am in my 80s and I can assure you I am well aware of the positive results of time tested vaccinations. So, I say, before you accuse anyone of being ignorant, I can assure you that I know a helluva lot more about everything than you do, child.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Well, then...
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:00 PM by MineralMan
Boy, do I feel chastened now... :rofl:

Since you know more than I do about everything, suppose you tell me what "unknown substances" are in the HPV vaccine. You can be as specific as you like. I will understand your technical terminology just fine.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. You should feel chastened, you little whippersnapper !
I did explain in a previous post re. my use of the term; unknown in the sense that at this point the results/testing of the vaccine are not conclusive. Love it when you, who love an argument, hone in on a couple of words and rag it to death. Leave me to my opinion and eat your spinach, you little twit!
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. LOL!
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:28 PM by MineralMan
Well played, Pops...
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Actually I am a Grandma. Thanks anyway, Whipper.
LOL
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. And that has what to do with the HPV vaccine?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Gee you are nosy. I was replying to Mineral Man. Go try
arguing with someone else.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Why?
You seem to like arguing with me just fine.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Oops. Sorry, Granny.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. Oh yeah? Thalidomide! Where’s your science now?
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:36 PM by HuckleB
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/oh-yeah-t... /

Oh, and what substances are you talking about?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Thalidomide proved to be the cause of many many birthdefects,
if you didn't already know that.. I have explained my use of the word 'unknown' in a couple of previous posts. Go ahead look it up.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Thanks for responding without bothering to read what you were responding to...
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:33 PM by HuckleB
... that's always useful.

:rofl:
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I read it, not impressed.
x
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Awwwwwwwww.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:54 PM by HuckleB
Better late than never. Of course, "you weren't impressed." It tore your pointless comment to pieces.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:19 PM
Original message
What pointless comment are you refering to? Your meaningless
post is well...meaningless.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
61. Nice try.
It was pointless and a logical fallacy to bring up thalidomide and ritalin, yet you did. Sorry to burst your little bubble, bub.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
65. Who said that it didn't?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Again, argument from ignorance.
Vaccines are not "untested" nor are they filled with mysterious "unknown substances." There are rigorous standards for vaccine safety, for good and obvious reasons.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. If you can tell me that there are no cases of negative results
in this vaccine; if you can show me positive testing results that indicate the vaccine is safe or effective than I will admit to being ignorant. I don't think being cautious about what should be introduced to children's bodies is showing ignorance.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Opposition based on non-facts isn't rational opposition.
Read the FDA safety report.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailab...

Particularly this part:

During this time period, the manufacturer, Merck and Co., has distributed over 23 million doses of Gardasil in the United States. The information contained in this update is based on the same information contained in the article published in JAMA. FDA will provide a future update to information on the number of reports of adverse events and doses distributed.

The Gardasil safety review assessed the following adverse events: local injection site reactions, syncope, dizziness, and nausea, headaches, hypersensitivity reactions, such as rashes, hives, itching, anaphylaxis, Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), transverse myelitis, motor neuron disease, venous thromboembolic events (VTEs), pancreatitis, autoimmune disorders, pregnancy, and deaths. All of these events are included in Gardasil’s labeling. In VAERS, a higher proportion of Gardasil reports were of syncope and VTEs compared with other vaccines. However, none of the adverse events in the safety review, including syncope and VTEs, were reported at rates (number of adverse events/number of doses distributed) greater than expected in a population of this age and gender and with other known contributing factors to these adverse events.

VAERS reports include syncope (fainting), pain at the injection site, headache, nausea and fever. Fainting is common after injections and vaccinations, especially in adolescents. Falls after syncope may sometimes cause serious injuries, such as head injuries, which can be prevented with simple steps, such as keeping the vaccinated person seated for up to 15 minutes after vaccination. FDA and CDC have taken steps to remind immunization providers about the recommendation that individuals be watched carefully for 15 minutes after vaccination to avoid potential injury from a fall. FDA approved revised labeling on June 9, 2009, to highlight this information in the Warnings and Precautions section, and new information was added noting that individuals who faint sometimes have tonic-clonic (jerking) movements and seizure-like activity. As a part of a Back to School immunization campaign, FDA and CDC are also continuing to remind health care providers to take measures to prevent fainting and the possible traumatic injury resulting from fainting.

Thromboembolic disorders (blood clots) have been reported to VAERS in people who have received Gardasil. Most of these individuals had risk factors for blood clots such as use of oral contraceptives which are known to increase the risk of clotting. The JAMA article describes 56 cases, 31 of which were confirmed blood clot reports. Twenty eight reports (90%) had underlying known risk factors such as hormonal birth control, genetic clotting abnormalities, obesity, smoking, and immobility. In the CDC’s VSD, blood clots have not been found to occur more often than expected after over 450,000 doses of Gardasil.

Concerns have been raised about reports of deaths occurring in individuals after receiving Gardasil. As of December 31, 2008, 32 deaths had been reported to VAERS. There was not a common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In the majority of cases with available autopsy, death certificate and medical records, the cause of death was explained by factors other than the vaccine.

Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) has also been reported in individuals following vaccination with Gardasil. GBS is a rare neurological disorder that causes muscle weakness. It occurs spontaneously in unvaccinated individuals after a variety of specific infections. FDA and CDC have reviewed the reports of GBS that have been submitted to VAERS. To date, there is no evidence that Gardasil has increased the rate of GBS above that expected in the population. While we continue to carefully analyze all reports of GBS submitted to VAERS, the data do not currently suggest an association between Gardasil and GBS.[/blockquote
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Sorry the report does not uphold the claim that the vaccine is
safe considering the admission that there has been cases after administration of the vaccine that have been explained away by claiming prexisting propensity for negative results. Just because out of thousands of injections the rate of adverse reactions is smaller does not put his in the category of a safe procedure. Sorry this is my opinion. Time will tell whether this is a necessary procedure as of yet the effectiveness of a cancer preventative is yet to be proven.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. Well I have previously explained my use of the word 'unknown'
in a couple of posts. If you are truly interested or just want to argue for the sake therof, look it up. Nothing mysterious about it.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Uh, thalidomide and ritalin are known substances.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. No shit. ....
Awe inspiring.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Hey, you brought them up in the context of supposedly unknown substances.
Odd that you forgot that already.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Reading comprehension is not your strong point. Quit trying
to piss on me. If you have something of value to say maybe I'll reply again featherbrain.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. My reading comprehension is quite good.
Unfortunately, you don't appear to know what you wrote or why.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. Untested?
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 02:34 PM by HuckleB
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Unrec for unadulterated claptrap.
Utter anti-vaxer nonsense.
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Few things
Correlation does not equal causation.

No scientific study proves there is a link between the two.

There is evidence the vaccine isn't really all that effective. Which would make this unnecessary, cause insurance rates to rise, and unnecessarily puts money into Merck's pocket. A giveaway to insurance and pharma
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. a 'few' things for you:
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/huge-s...

Huge success for Gardasil

Rates of new genital wart infection in Australia have plummeted, research shows, in an early positive sign of the success of mass Gardasil vaccinations.

A study taking in patient data from sexual health clinics across the country has shown up to a 60 per cent drop off in new genital wart cases since 2007, when the anti-cancer vaccine was rolled out.

Gardasil works by preventing the transmission of four strains of the Human papillomavirus (HPV), two of which cause cervical cancer and two which cause genital warts.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Experts say while its effect on cervical cancer rates would take longer to materialise, the vaccine's ability to prevent a less serious though embarrassing problem was now clear.


http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-vaccine-young-wo...

HPV Vaccine Information For Young Women - Fact Sheet
Montage of young women

Two vaccines are available to prevent the human papillomavirus (HPV) types that cause most cervical cancers. These vaccines are Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline) and Gardasil (Merck). One of the HPV vaccines, Gardasil, also prevents genital warts as well as anal, vulvar and vaginal cancers. Both vaccines are given in 3 shots over 6 months.
Why the HPV vaccine is important

Genital HPV is a common virus that is passed from one person to another through direct skin-to-skin contact during sexual activity. Most sexually active people will get HPV at some time in their lives, though most will never even know it. HPV infection is most common in people in their late teens and early 20s. There are about 40 types of HPV that can infect the genital areas of men and women. Most HPV types cause no symptoms and go away on their own. But some types can cause cervical cancer in women and other less common cancers— like cancers of the anus, penis, vagina, and vulva (area around the opening of the vagina) and oropharynx (back of throat including base of tongue and tonsils). Other types of HPV can cause warts in the genital areas of men and women, called genital warts. Genital warts are not a life-threatening disease. But they can cause emotional stress and their treatment can be very uncomfortable. Every year, about 12,000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer and 4,000 women die from this disease in the U.S. About 1% of sexually active adults in the U.S. have visible genital warts at any point in time.
Which girls/women should receive HPV vaccination?

HPV vaccination is recommended with either vaccine for 11 and 12 year-old girls. It is also recommended for girls and women age 13 through 26 years of age who have not yet been vaccinated or completed the vaccine series; HPV vaccine can also be given to girls beginning at age 9 years.
Will sexually active females benefit from the vaccine?

Ideally females should get the vaccine before they become sexually active and exposed to HPV. Females who are sexually active may also benefit from the vaccine, but they may get less benefit from it. This is because they may have already gotten one or more of HPV types targeted by the vaccines. However, few sexually active young women are infected with all HPV types prevented by the vaccines, so most young women could still get protection by getting vaccinated.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatme...

HPV Vaccine Protects Against Anal Cancer in Women

New research offers women one more reason to get vaccinated against the human papillomavirus (HPV). In addition to lowering the risk of cervical, vulvar and vaginal cancer, the vaccine also protects against anal cancer.

It is believed that about 90 percent of anal cancer is caused by an HPV infection. Although anal cancer is rare, it has become more prevalent in recent years in the United States, nearly doubling in prevalence in the past decade. About 5,300 people are diagnosed with anal cancer each year, the majority of whom are women, according to the American Cancer Society.

"I think we can expect to see a profound reduction in anal cancer among women vaccinated," Aimée Kreimer, the lead author on the study and investigator at the National Cancer Institute, said.

"We know that screening for cervical works because rates have been plummeting, but for anal cancer, rates are on the rise and there is no official screening process for anal cancer in women. With the vaccine, we can have women getting vaccinated for cervical cancer who will get this added benefit of protection against anal cancer."

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. How safe is the HPV vaccine? New data available.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. please, please please x-post this in the health forum. oh & +1. nt
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. I did make it the first link in this OP in the health forum.
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Anti-vax bullcrap n/t
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. Except the vaccine was never made mandatory in Texas, so no one died because of Perry's "mistake."
I really hate this, you're forcing me in a position where I have to defend Texas pols. The local politicians voted it outta the building, Perry did not "renege" on his previous mandate. He simply stated he would not veto the bill to block state officials from following his order. Like he had a choice in it, people in power told him he was about to get run out of Texas on a rail if he didn't take the out offered to him.

As to the rest of that article, I'm not going to bother reading it. If this source cannot bother to fact check something as easy to validate as Perry's mandate if this vaccine, and if it were ever used under said mandate, and chooses to use a sensational and blatantly false headline such as this, I willing to bet it's junk.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. Umm. ...
Pediatricians Fact-Check Bachmann's Bashing of HPV Vaccine
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Will Bachmann’s anti-vaccine pandering fall flat? The changing political landscape for proponents of pediatric and public health
http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/09/13/will-bac... /

HPV Vaccination Programs Showing Early Results
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/06/hpv-vacci...

Parents' Guide To Understanding HPV Vaccine
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/0708120815...
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
37. I see you agree with Michelle Bachmann. n/t
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
40. Everyone, please keep in mind, that mandating a vaccine means
that insurance companies and CHIPs and Medicaid are required to cover the vaxes so it is not a burden on families.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Money magazine weighs in on the first genetically modified vaccine here.
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 03:27 PM by proverbialwisdom
http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/22/news/companies/gardasil...

The making of Gardasil

Merck producing vaccine at Pennsylvania plant that was (briefly) the biggest biotech plant in the world.

By Aaron Smith, CNNMoney.com staff writer
November 22 2006: 12:58 PM EST



WEST POINT, Pa. (CNNMoney.com) -- On the site of a former amusement park in a small Pennsylvania town, technicians sheathed in plastic suits labor over stainless steel fermentation tanks that look like brewery vats. But this is no brewery. This is Merck's (down $0.14 to $44.08, Charts) vaccine plant in West Point, Pa., where the technicians make Gardasil, the world's first vaccine to prevent the sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer.

This disease kills 4,000 U.S. women every year, according the National Cancer Institute, with 10,000 new infections annually. Gardasil is made in 3,000-gallon vats of yeast paste, where the vaccine is fermented through a tightly-controlled process. The end result - Gardasil - could save thousands of women's lives, and make billions of dollars for Merck. Gardasil is a new entrant to the market, having been approved by the Food and Drug Administration in June. The vaccine has been approved for girls as young as nine years old, to protect them later in life when they become sexually active.

Analysts' sales projections for this vaccine range as high as $4 billion a year, assuming that state governments mandate inoculation. The vaccine could be a key earner for New Jersey-based Merck, the No. 4 U.S. drugmaker behind Pfizer (up $0.21 to $27.16, Charts), Johnson & Johnson (up $0.02 to $66.62, Charts) and Abbott Laboratories (down $0.03 to $47.46, Charts).

During a recent tour of the Gardasil plant, visitors breathed on a window of reinforced glass and stared at the Merck technicians, who kept their faces covered under transparent plastic masks and bibs. Tubes, pipes, and conduits snaked from the vaccine vats like entrails. Only the technicians are allowed on the manufacturing side of the glass, where impurities no bigger than half a micron are filtered from the air. That's one-hundredth of the width of a human hair. Fermentation vats are hermetically sealed to prevent impurities from spoiling the stock. Michael Baganski, senior technical adviser for biotechnology manufacturing at Merck, said that every step of Gardasil's manufacturing process is closely controlled: from the insertion of DNA into the yeast cells to create genetically engineered "seed stock;" to the frozen storage of stock at temperatures colder than minus 50 degrees Celsius; to the culturing of yeast paste in the fermenter to increase cell mass, to the incubation of yeast cells to produce Gardasil's active ingredient - the antigen VLP (virus-like particle) - at the end of the fermentation process; to the filtering of VLPs from the cell paste, to its blend with an aluminum adjuvant to bolster immune response in patients, to the cleaning and reusing of the expensive resin used to make the vaccine.

In Merck parlance, this style of hyper-sterile fermentation is called "closed system processing" with "no person-to-product contact." Like its rival Pfizer, Merck is engaged in a multi-billion dollar cost-cutting campaign to offset the losses of blockbuster products. But Merck spokeswoman Janet Skidmore said that cost-cutting hasn't come to West Point, where the company is ready to ramp up Gardasil capacity as demand allows. Merck's vaccines are produced by 150 biologists, chemists and engineers at its complex of half-dozen buildings at West Point. The employees who grew up in West Point are easy to distinguish from those who did not, because they remember their parents taking them to the amusement park where the vaccine plant now stands.

Gardasil demonstrated strong effectiveness during experimentation - with efficacy of 100 percent in preventing some of the viral strains - giving Merck the confidence to start adding its Gardasil addition in 2000, six years before the approval. The complex is 180,000-square feet, about the size of a large shopping mall. At one time during construction, Merck's plant-in-the-making was considered the world's biggest biotech plant. "At that time, there was more stainless steel tubing in this building than any other building in the world," said Baganski.

But that title is fleeting. For now, the distinction goes to Wyeth (down $0.09 to $48.59, Charts), the sixth-largest U.S. drugmaker, and owner of the biggest biotech plant in the world. Wyeth maintains a sprawling one-million square foot biotech campus in Ireland, at the Grange Castle business park in Dublin, with 1,100 workers.
Wyeth's biotech plant opened in 2005 and cost $2.3 billion to build. That's where it makes Enbrel, a treatmen for rheumatoid arthritis and other types of arthritis, and Prevnar, a vaccine that prevents meningitis and blood infections in children.

"The investment in the Grange Castle site demonstrates our commitment to biotech," said Wyeth spokesman Doug Petkus, in an e-mail to CNNMoney.com. "It complements our U.S. biotech presence in Andover, Mass. and will play a large role in sustaining the worldwide growth of our key products Enbrel and Prevnar."
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
98. Get Your Red Herring Here! (Or there.)
:rofl:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. HealthImpactNews?
This also includes such gems as:

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/governor-perry-thinks-... /

(In which they criticize Perry for not being anti-evolution *enough*.)

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/why-creation-is-import... /

Which concludes:

'If you have put your faith only in today’s health care system which ignores the Creator and is built upon a foundation of Darwinian evolution, are you experiencing full health? If not, maybe you need to understand the principles of creation and begin a relationship with the living God.'

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/ron-paul-on-defending-... /

In which they, most vilely of all, quote Ron Paul approvingly:

'They say you have a right to education, you have a right to medical care, you are entitled by the government to be taken care of. The entitlement system becomes a right.

But all these things they’re talking about depend on the use of government force. Force—that is, if the government can give you or me something… some goods or some service, they have to extract it from somebody else. So they become thieves…'

Or in other words, as Paul's supporters cried, 'Let them die!'

Can we accept ANYTHING from such a site as a valid source on anything to do with health?






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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Ah, Mercola sure is used a lot at that site, too.
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murphyj87 Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
86. From the National Cancer Institute ..

  • Human papillomaviruses (HPVs) are a group of more than 150 related viruses, of which more than 40 can be sexually transmitted. Some sexually transmitted HPVs cause genital warts, whereas others, called high-risk or oncogenic HPVs, can cause cancer.

  • Genital HPV infections are very common, but most occur without any symptoms and go away without any treatment over the course of a few years.

  • Sometimes, HPV infections can persist for many years. Persistent infections with high-risk HPVs are the primary cause of cervical cancer and anal cancer. HPV infections also cause some cancers of the vulva, vagina, penis, and oropharynx.

  • The Food and Drug Administration has approved two vaccines, Gardasil® and Cervarix®, that are highly effective in preventing persistent infections with the two HPV types that cause most cervical and anal cancers. Gardasil also prevents infection with the two HPV types that cause most genital warts.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
89. I guess this isn't science since it doesn't promote drug sales (SARCASM).
I really want to post this since I didn't have the time previously (Post #27, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ).

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/08/cancer-vaccin...

Giving Gardasil to boys not cost effective - study
Thu Oct 8, 2009 7:50pm EDT
By Julie Steenhuysen


* U.S. government weighs approval of vaccine for boys
* Sales growth slowing as more girls get immunized

CHICAGO, Oct 8 (Reuters) - Vaccinating boys against the virus that causes cervical cancer and genital warts does not appear to be cost-effective, U.S. researchers said on Thursday.

Assuming all girls get the shot, adding boys to a national vaccination program may not be worth the expense, they said.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is weighing whether to approve Gardasil -- Merck & Co's (MRK.N) vaccine against human papillomavirus -- for use in boys and men ages 9 to 26 to protect them from genital warts and prevent them from spreading the virus to their sexual partners.

"What our results imply is for the resources expended, there may be better uses and other health interventions that would increase health gains in the population," Jane Kim of the Harvard School of Public Health, whose study appears in the British Medical Journal, said in a telephone interview.

Gardasil is approved for use in girls and young women to protect against certain strains of the virus.

And the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends the shot for 11- and 12-year-old girls and for women 13 to 26 who have not been vaccinated.

The vaccine had global sales of $1.4 billion in 2008, with an additional $865 million received through a joint venture with Sanofi-Aventis (SASY.PA).

But growth has slowed recently in markets where the initial group of eligible teenage girls has now been immunized.

The company is now seeking approval for use in boys and men. In clinical trials, the vaccine has been shown to offer a high degree of protection, Kim said.

"Even though it might be beneficial, whether or not the benefits are worth the investment is what we sought to evaluate," she said.

She and colleague Sue Goldie used data from clinical trials, population studies and cost data to develop computer models to simulate the benefits of the vaccine over time.

They included the benefits of preventing cervical cancers, genital warts and a rare respiratory condition called recurrent respiratory papillomatosis that a pregnant woman with genital warts can pass to her baby.

To decide this, they calculated quality-adjusted life years, a figure that takes into account the impact of disease on quality of life.

They found using the vaccine in girls was well within the threshold for good value. But when they added boys into the equation, the benefits did not outweigh the costs.

Kim said the vaccine is new, so all the health benefits of giving the vaccine to boys may not be known.

And the study assumes that 75 percent of girls will get the vaccine and be protected from cervical cancer.

"If coverage in girls ends up being low, then vaccinating boys became much more attractive," she said.

Kim said the findings do not suggest that the FDA should not approve the vaccine in boys, but that it might not be cost-effective to recommend routine vaccination in boys.

(Editing by Xavier Briand)
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Because only heteros have sex.
:banghead:
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Please don't hurt your head, it makes learning hard.
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/14/3910324/michele-bachma...

Michele Bachmann Correct to Criticize Gardasil Mandate, Doctors Say

By Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)
Published: Wednesday, Sep. 14, 2011 - 12:24 pm


TUCSON, Ariz., Sept. 14, 2011 -- /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In Monday's presidential debate, Representative Michele Bachmann properly stood up for the rights of patients and their parents to reject government-mandated vaccination, despite the knee-jerk critical reaction by those who unquestioningly support all government mandates for immunizations.

The crony capitalism that exists between drug companies, lobbyists, and politicians should be exposed. Elected officials should be held accountable for forcing schoolchildren to take risks in order to boost drug company profits.

Without adequate testing but with well-placed political funding and lobbyists, Merck pushed for requiring that the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine, Gardasil, be given to young schoolgirls as a condition for entering sixth grade. But the disease it supposedly protects against is not even contagious in the school environment.

"There was no public health justification for requiring this to attend school," states Jane M. Orient, M.D., executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS).

A researcher for the HPV vaccine was even critical of its use without more complete warnings. She pointed out that the data available for the vaccine showed it might last only five years, while most of the recipients of the vaccine would not even encounter the disease during that period. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_inves... Those who do not engage in promiscuous sex would never encounter the disease at all, unless given to them by a promiscuous partner.

Dr. Jon Abramson, a member of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, declared that "I told Merck my personal opinion that it shouldn't be mandated. And they heard it from other committee members." http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=40432

There have been serious harms from the HPV vaccine, causing tragedy for patients who did not receive meaningful disclosures about its risks.

Then there is the expense: this HPV vaccine costs hundreds of dollars for something that most of the recipients do not even need protection against. If given to 4 million schoolchildren entering schools nationwide, that's a multi-billion dollar expense just for the cost of the vaccine, and many billions more for those who suffer adverse effects. Incidentally, a government mandate for the vaccine immunizes the manufacturer from liability.

We applaud Representative Bachmann for standing up for patients, and for parents. She repeated one parent's statement that the vaccine apparently caused cognitive problems in her child, and no one has disproven that possibility. We need to hear more, not less, about parents' and patients' experiences with these vaccines, so that they can weigh the risks and benefits for themselves. Vaccines, like all medical treatments, should be given only with fully informed consent.

Children who are not a risk to others should not be barred from attending school, nor should their parents be subjected to onerous opt-out procedures in order to exercise their rights.

AAPS, a national organization representing physicians in all specialties, (www.aapsonline.org ) was founded in 1943 to defend the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship.

SOURCE Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Careful who you shack up with.
The AAPS is a right-wing group that also fought Obama on healthcare reform tooth and nail. They are a libertarian nut job group. No wonder they agree with Bachmann. The question is, why do you?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. I was just going to bring that up.
:rofl:
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #93
101. Isn't it funny how DUers will parrot right-wing talking points when it suits them?
:crazy:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. BTW, how do you know any of those comments were actually made by Merck employees?
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 06:44 PM by HuckleB
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. It's a good faith assumption which would need to be proven or disproved.
Obviously, nothing is precluded in the realm of ruthlessness, but multiple fake personas on a chat board? Why? Maybe, but not likely.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. There's no "good faith" about it.
Prove it, or cut the crap.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #91
102. You have to love the abstinence sell there!
'This vaccine wouldn't be necessary if we just policed everyone's sexual proclivities'
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #91
105. The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons is pure evil
From a post I made a few months ago:

Conservapedia describes them as the 'oldest conservative and libertarian group'. Whether this is correct I don't know; but clearly Conservapedia regards them as one of their own.


Their website is full of vicious propaganda against universal health care. They were also activists against the Clintons' attempts at healthcare reform in the 1990s. And going back yet further - against FDR's and Truman's attempts to introduce health care in the 40s. They have consistently opposed *any* government-sponsored health care programmes, including Medicare and Medicaid.

They were also involved in spreading various right-wing medical myths, including the theory that abortion causes breast cancer, and that undocumented immigrants are responsible for the spread of leprosy.

According to Wikipedia's entry on them (yes, it's Wikipedia, but they link to direct sources):

'The AAPS has characterized the effects of the Social Security Act of 1965, which established Medicare and Medicaid, as "evil" and "immoral",<11> and encouraged member physicians to refuse to accept or participate in Medicare and Medicaid.<12><13> AAPS argues that individuals have a right to purchase medical care, that there is no right to medical care, and that a government-mandated entitlement to medical care is unconstitutional and immoral; hence they oppose efforts to implement a national health plan.<14> ... Other procedures that AAPS opposes include abortion<16> and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception.<17>

The organization's Resolution 2001-2 stated that AAPS resolved to "promote the immediate repeal of all laws, regulations, and policies that allow direct or de facto supervision or control over the practice of medicine by federal officers or employees"<18>....

Articles and commentaries published in (their)journal have argued:

that abortion causes preterm birth later in life, and thus birth defects such as cerebral palsy to future children born to women with a history of abortion,<32>
that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional,<33>
that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution,<34>
that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not caused global warming,<35>
that HIV does not cause AIDS,<36><37>
that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.<38>










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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
92.  "What do Merck employees think of the SANE Vax discovery of Gardasil contamination?"
Wait, wait... this is too sad to get wrong. You really need to read the two page thread of comments by Merck employees about their management.

http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=47624...

Cafepharma Message Boards> Company Boards> Merck
---------- SANE Vax, Inc. Reports Human Papillomavirus (HPV) DNA Contamination in Gardasil To ..


FIRST POST IN THREAD:
http://sanevax.org/sane-vax-inc-reports-human-papilloma... /
SANE Vax, Inc. Reports Human Papillomavirus (HPV) DNA Contamination in Gardasil To FDA: Requests Public Safety Investigation

TROY, Mont.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sep 6, 2011 - SANE Vax Inc. announced today they sent a certified letter to FDA Commissioner, Dr. Margaret Hamburg, to inform the agency 100% of 13 samples of Merck & Companies HPV 4 Quadrivalent vaccine, Gardasil™ have been found to be contaminated with recombinant HPV DNA. The vaccine vials were from different lots currently marketed in the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, France and Poland.

Medical consumers from these countries asked SANE Vax Inc. to help determine if there is residual recombinant HPV DNA in the Gardasil™ vaccine currently used by their doctors. They are concerned that the recombinant DNA, if present, may have triggered some of the autoimmune-based inflammatory disorders and malignant tumors observed among children/young women after receiving Gardasil™ vaccinations.

According to Norma Erickson, president of SANE Vax, “A sexually naïve girl developed acute juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at age 13 within 24 hours after the third Gardasil™ injection and her blood sample - tested two years later - was found to be positive for HPV DNA by a local clinical laboratory.” A possible connection between HPV DNA in Gardasil™ and leukemia or lymphoma has also been raised by vaccine safety advocates, said Erickson.

The letter sent to Dr. Margaret Hamburg at the FDA stated, “One of the HPV DNA fragments detected in the vaccine is part of a synthetic construct (GenBank Locus SCU55993) for HPV11 major capsid protein L1 gene, a recombinant DNA genetically engineered specifically for manufacturing of the Gardasil vaccine.”

“There is no doubt that the HPV DNA found in the vaccine represents an adventitious agent left over from the DNA recombinant manufacturing process with potential adverse impacts on health safety of those vaccinated. The recombinant DNA found in Gardasil is very tightly bound to aluminum hydroxyphosphate. When injected intramuscularly, this combination may function as a DNA vaccine with uncertain consequences,” said Erickson.

Both the FDA and the vaccine manufacturer assumed that there was no HPV DNA in Gardasil™ when the vaccine was approved for marketing, according to SANE Vax.

“Because one hundred percent of the samples tested were positive for HPV DNA contamination, SANE Vax Inc. requests the FDA investigate the extent of the HPV DNA contamination in the Gardasil HPV4 vaccine currently on the market and take appropriate actions to ensure public safety regarding future shipments,” stated the letter.

The HPV DNA testing was performed by Dr. Sin Hang Lee, a pathologist at the Milford Hospital pathology laboratory known in using cutting-edge DNA sequencing for molecular diagnoses. This methodology was first reported to the FDA in 2006 and has been published in various peer-reviewed scientific journals, stated Erickson.



Link from: http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-do-...

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Michele Bachmann seems to be the best champion for your cause!
Will you support her candidacy?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. No, I'm with Bachmann as a candidate for president as much as you're with Perry, namely, not @ all.
On the other hand, the issues Bachmann is right on are Perry's crony capitalism, his egregious overreach of executive privilege, and questions about the occurrence of serious adverse reactions to Gardasil.

It sounds to me like Merck is having an internal war over QA (quality assurance). Why don't you focus on that.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #100
108. Bachmann, like so many on the right, is anti-science and anti-progressive.
That she is against Gardasil only makes sense in that context.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. How many times does this stuff need to be shown as false before you stop posting it?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #96
103. It isn't a pretty picture but you obviously didn't bother to even glance at the link.
Edited on Sat Sep-17-11 01:44 AM by proverbialwisdom
The link is to a current thread at a PHARMA BLOG purportedly comprised of comments by Merck employees reacting to the information you (and your link) assert has been proven false.

And these industry insiders are not laughing, yawning, or even slightly discounting the issues raised. Rather they uniformly exhibit horror and express being appalled or disgusted at the implications. Some of the language is crude and some displays gallows humor.

Most importantly, THEY CONDEMN THEIR OWN MANAGEMENT for incompetence &/or putting the bottom line over ethical conduct &/or a misguided public policy cost-benefit analysis.

It is not necessary for you or me to understand the science involved in order to fight in the trenches over the scientific validity of the finding, as your rebuttal attempts to do. That's for the dueling experts.

I know which side I choose - the scientist whistleblowers and industry insiders (who apparently more fully grasp the unfolding scandal than anything I've read elsewhere).

Time will tell.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #103
107. Uh, hogwash, as usual.
The blog that you attack without evidence is quite legitimate.

Why do have nothing but fictions to support your preconceived notions?

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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. I don't have any information regarding that pharma blog, but I certainly am not attacking it.
If the blog is 'quite legitimate,' as you say, all this just makes me feel like crying. Instead, I post and talk about it in an effort to support the whistleblowers.

And I take heart, there are many.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. It's not a "pharma blog."
Edited on Sat Sep-17-11 03:44 PM by HuckleB
It's a science blog. Further, true whistleblowers don't make things up, and they don't make repeated personal attacks when the evidence goes against their preconceived notions.

Try again.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. You're right, those are damage control tactics directed against whistleblowers, not by them.
And, yeah, I know those posters technically weren't actual whistleblowers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower ), although if legitimate they have my admiration for their status as outspoken insiders. Obviously, both categories of individuals may pay a steep personal cost for failure to tow the corporate party line.

It's not wrong for these industry insiders to expect excellence. It's better for the public and ultimately better for their employer - excellence can't be permanently faked.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. That's quite a load of BS you're pushing there.
Unfortunately, the sites you continue to offer are not whistleblowers. They are con artists.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. For once, you post a legitimate study.
I'd be impressed if the results didn't match your preconceived notions.

I'm curious as to why you would post that, but not this: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlek...

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