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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:16 PM
Original message
I saw Milk last night
I was so proud of myself-I didn't cry until the candlelight vigil scene at the end

the parallels between the Briggs campaign and the Prop 8 campaign were scary

where is our Harvey Milk today???

we have NO LEADERSHIP in the GLBT rights movement


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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R. What about Barney Frank?
There was a very good bio/interview with him on "60 Minutes" tonight... :applause:

I haven't seen the film yet. Thanks for your impressions, though I already knew it would be upsetting... :-( And the parallel gives me a good perspective... :-)
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. honestly, what has Barney done for the GLBT community?
I honestly can't name anything

he got into a pissing match with the transgender community after carrying the ENDA bill supported by the HRC that excluded transgendered people

he had to backtrack on that


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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well, one thing that I understood from his bio was that he made it no big deal that he was gay.
And his colleagues accepted him for it, judging him for the work he does, not his orientation... :-)
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. he was in the closet when he was first elected
but that's not important

what has he done for the GLBT community to further our rights?

we have no ENDA; we still have DOMA

he is the highest elected openly gay official in the US-having served in Congress the longest and he has not taken any leadership positions

why isn't his face on TV or in the news for gay rights?

all he's known for is having a prostitution ring run out of his DC apartment and bailing out the banks


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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. You'll be interested in this thread on Barney Frank... :-)
Lawmaker (Barney Frank) says 'no' to Rev. Warren at inauguration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Barney Frank was a pioneer, but he's no leader
He showed that it was possible to be both openly gay and be elected to high public office, and he is reasonably progressive on most issues. However, he is a politician first and foremost. He has shown time and again that he has no apparent qualms about throwing his own community under the bus for the sake of "compromise," and he has been very unwilling to take any kind of leadership position among the GLBT community lest he be "branded" as "that fag in Congress" by his political opponents.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I understand and that's too bad.
I've admired Sen. Frank for his leadership on certain progressive issues, and also that he's been upfront about his orientation (unlike certain others... :-( ).

But your point is well taken. However, you have to admit that he is on a slippery slope. I imagined he weighed his options and decided what would be most effective for him, though I do think that the fact that he's been upfront since the beginning should make it somewhat easier for others who follow... :shrug:
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Barney Frank supported removing the transgendered from
Edited on Tue Dec-16-08 07:33 AM by jonnyblitz
protection under ENDA so I hardly consider him a leader of the community. The transgendered possibly need the protection under ENDA the most for chrissake. so fuck him on this. ENDA is Employment Non-Discrimination Act, btw.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sara-whitman/barney-frank...
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Ouch! I can see how people would feel very strongly about that.
Did he give a reason? I agree that life must be toughest for them... :-(

Thanks for the link! :hi:
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. sorry it took so long to respond, i think he felt it was the most
Edited on Mon Dec-22-08 01:35 AM by jonnyblitz
expedient way to get it passed, assuming a less enlightened crowd (ie. bigoted) might not vote for it if the transgendered were included.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. That's perfectly alright, but thanks! I usually don't get too many replies, LOL.
I understand, if that was his motivation, since something is better than nothing. But it's still pretty sad that this segment of the population would endure the most prejudice. I never knew that. And I'd imagine that it's a very small segment of the population, compared to the gay community, which is quite large. Thanks for enlightening me! :-)

Also, notice my reply #17 on this thread on Barney Frank speaking out against Rick Warren. :applause:

Rhiannon :hi:
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. The GLBT movement has never really been based on "leaders" per se.
Edited on Sun Dec-14-08 11:38 PM by PaulHo
One of the distinctive thing about our politics is that it has generally been participatory.( I hate the phraseology "grass roots", but it does apply here.)

Harvey Milk took on mythic proportions when ... and because... he was murdered. He broke ground as SF's first openly gay elected official and deserves credit for all he did but the movement was driven by hundreds of thousands of people who wanted a better , more complete life than the system was willing to allow them..... not by Harvey.

Point: let's not wait around for another "Harvey Milk". That will be a long wait indeed. Even Harvey Milk wasn't "Harvey Milk".
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think you're wrong
he gave the movement a face and a voice

he was probably a shameless self-promoter but it worked

I think that he unified, for lack of a better word, those thousands of people into a force

we need someone like that today who is the voice and face of the GLBT movement

quick-who's the head of the HRC

I can't answer that; I don't know who is the head of any of those groups and I pride myself on being fairly well informed


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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's impossible.
OK... it's *metaphysically* possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

Elizabeth Birch used to be head of HRC... but I'm pretty sure she's moved over .

Funny, everyone knows the names of gay and lesbian actors and entertainers of all varieties but few know who heads GLBT lobbying and advocacy groups.

Or maybe not so funny.

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I bet the average informed black person knows who is head of the NAACP
where is our NAACP?

the HRC?

that's an astroturf group of the worst kind
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "Astroturf group" meaning fake grassroots?
I like that term. :toast: Pithy, illustrative and, in the case of the HRC, all too accurate.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. fake grassroots exactly
maybe it's time for people to organize a new truly grassroots group


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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw it yesterday afternoon.
What a great film. A very inspiring picture of activism with a lot of good history. I was a child in the '70's and didn't realize that was when Anita Bryant was oozing her way across the country with her hate.

I hope a lot of people see this. Sean Penn is great in it. I kept forgetting it was him. It was incredibly moving.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. I know I should see it, but I think it would hurt too much.
And I don't know if it was technically feasible, but it should have come out in September, before the election.
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