All right which is it?

[mitchtv]

We have someone here saying that McClurkin did not MC the primary event in SC for Obama that offended the LGBT folks. We have DU'rs saying he most certainly did. This seems to be something that can be settled. Anyone got proof?

[xchrom]

1. ...

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/01/obamas_playing_us_stupid.php

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/_95210.html

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/category/converstion-reparative-therapy

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3403

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3392

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. he did. the question is whether this was a genuine mistake on obama's part

of part of a larger design to get the homophobic vote.

and whether we as a community, have gotten over it since he has said other things that have been reasonable and conciliatory

[ccharles000]

3. It was a mistake Obama made.

I have forgiven him and will vote for him in the GE.

[mitchtv]

11. You are very kindhearted Charles

I fall on the sinister side. He deliberately blew off voters like me( a small constituency) to gain advantage in the primary contest in a state the Dems will lose. I do not blame him , however, he is a politician, and plays to win, but I don't have to like it or him. You reap what you so. As a Dem I will vote for him in november, most likely ( A Sam Nunn VP could prevent that vote)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. thats how i am trying to look at it too.

[DURHAM D]

4. It was not a mistake on Obama's part - it was his cynical strategy to win S.C.

Some would say "sinister" strategy to win SC.

Over 50% of the registered Dem voters in SC are AA. Of that group 75% believe that being gay is a choice. Hate pandering/mongering to the AA community was essential to winning the state.

And, NO! - I have not forgotten or forgiven him. Why would any self-respecting gay man or lesbian forgive him - much less considered him a decent human being.

[Toasterlad]

6. And He Has Not Apologized For It.

Sorry, party loyalists: I'm not going out of my way to trash Obama, but I'm not going to sit quiet on the sidelines whenever this issue is raised, either.

[terrya]

8. He did NOT apologize for it.

He said that he disagreed with McClurkin's views, which was as wishy-washy as you can get, considering we're talking about the truly evil "ex-gay" movement.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. No. He'd be *more* wishy-washy had he said that the validity...

>>>He said that he disagreed with McClurkin's views, which was as wishy-washy as you can get, considering we're talking about the truly evil "ex-gay" movement.>>>>


... of McClurkin's views were " for others to conclude" which is exactly what Clinton said when asked if she agreed that homosexuality is ... and by extension that *homosexuals* are.... "immoral".

But Obama did not say that. He didn't equivocate. he didn't vaccillate. He didn't go home and conference with this handlers over the issue and come back later with a 'clarification'.


He said he disagreed with McClurkin's views.

[dsc]

20. actually in regards to the immorality comments of Pace

Obama did do the exact same thing. I can find the link if you need it.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. "Exactly"? That seems unlikely, so: yes, a link please. Also.....

... the comparison here is between how Obama distinguished, or *failed* to adequately distinguish his position from McClurkin... on the one hand... and how Clinton failed to distinguish her position from Pace ( ie "homosexual acts are immoral"; are they? "That's for others to conclude."

Obama repudiated McClurkin's views on homosexuality from the get go; far as I know. A link disproving this would be more pertinent to the question at hand, seems to me.

[dsc]

25. I am referring to Pace not McClurkin

both of those candidates gave the same answer to that question. Both refused comment (on the merits of the comments) at first and then, via spokespeople, commented.

Here is a link backing me up

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200703/CUL20070316a.html

[Smarmie Doofus]

33. I know that. Here's what Clinton said and here's what Obama said....

... Hardly "the exact same thing."


>>>>>On Tuesday, an ABC reporter asked Clinton whether homosexuality is immoral, and she replied: "Well, I am going to leave that to others to conclude."

A spokesman for the junior senator from New York later said that she disagrees with Pace.

On Wednesday, reporters also pressed Obama for reaction to Pace's comments. "Traditionally, the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman has restricted his public comments to military matters," the Illinois Democrat said. "That's probably a good tradition to follow.">>>>


And here's your commentary:

>>>actually in regards to the immorality comments of Pace
Obama did do the exact same thing. I can find the link if you need it.>>>>

Keep in mind: the full context is missing and they appear to be answering different *specific* questions... on the general topic of Pace's public statement that "homosexual acts are immoral."


>>>>>On Tuesday, an ABC reporter asked Clinton whether homosexuality is immoral, and she replied: "Well, I am going to leave that to others to conclude.">>>>

Plainly, she's implying that both points of view ( homosexuality is immoral and homosexuality is NOT immoral ) are of equal validity; that people can reasonably disagree on this question and that , therefore, it is not unreasonable for a person to believe that "homosexuality is immoral".

I do not see any other way to reasonably interpret her remark. It is what it is and it is quintessentially Clinton: cold, calcualting clinical, value-neutral. Oblivious to the non-political dimension to the question ( sounds a lot like IWR, no?).

Perhaps some can take solace in her next-day backtracking ( I don't) and people are free to interpret her remark differently. But she said what she said. And IMO, she said what she meant.

Obama:

>>"Traditionally, the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman has restricted his public comments to military matters," the Illinois Democrat said. "That's probably a good tradition to follow.">>>>

Home run; bases loaded. Translation: "Fool, keep your half-assed ideas about morality and human sexuality to yourself as long as you're cashing gov't paychecks. Civilians decide public policy. Generals do not."

[dsc]

34. they truncated her quote

she stated clearly that immorality was immaterial to whether gays should or shouldn't serve. Bottom line neither candidate stated that gays were moral or that Pace was incorrect in his estimation of gays and both stated that immorality was irrelevent.

[Smarmie Doofus]

35. I'd be happy to look at a link where her quote is not unfairly truncated.

>>>>they truncated her quote
she stated clearly that immorality was immaterial to whether gays should or shouldn't serve. Bottom line neither candidate stated that gays were moral or that Pace was incorrect in his estimation of gays and both stated that immorality was irrelevent.>>>>


But this is the one you provided.


>>>she stated clearly that immorality was immaterial to whether gays should or shouldn't serve.>>>>

Wow, I hope she didn't say *that*. *Immoral* people should be serving in the military? I'm not sure I like that at all.

>>>Bottom line neither candidate stated that gays were moral or that Pace was incorrect in his estimation of gays >>>

But Obama didn't address the question of morality... at least not in your link ; only Clinton did.

[Toasterlad]

5. Yes He Did.

"McClurkin essentially acted as the emcee of the event, introducing the other gospel artists who performed, and then took the stage for the last hour." = Washingtonpost.com, 10/29/07

[MNBrewer]

7. Has this been a pattern?

Or was it a one-time thing?

[Creideiki]

9. Advisors for his campaign:

Sam "DADT" Nunn

The "Reverend" James Meeks, you served on Obama's presidential exploratory committee.

Statements about his own faith regarding same-sex marriage despite "his own faith" regarding same-sex marriage as a right.

[MNBrewer]

12. How many other homophobes have MC'd Obama events?

[mitchtv]

10. so ----- was either wrong, or lying

kinda like Bush n Cheney. I will not be bullied by strates

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. yes but on a far smaller scale than bush or cheney

i think over the long run he will be good for the country. since we are part of it, indirectly we will benefit.

the direct benefits i am less sure about.

[mitchtv]

17. of course you are right

We are a negligable bloc to the DP, and prove it everytime Gay people stay home. JUST DON'T TELL ME i HAVE NO WHERE ELSE TO GO

[closeupready]

14. It was a disappointing, but small-time, gaffe.

n/t

[mitchtv]

16. and like i've said elsewhere

I don't have to like it. It was not a gaffe but a deliberate political act with benefits , and drawbacks. Gays were the smaller constiuency, so we paid. He made his choice, he has not apologized, for it , the Dems will not win SC, and although I might vote for him , I will not donate. that's the best I can do.

[Moloch]

18. *yawn*

This again?

While you're busy being oppressed, some of us are helping Obama win the presidency so he can help end the war, enact universal healthcare and ensure equality for all Americans (including GLBT Americans.)

Why don't you join us? I'm sure if you would research it a bit you will find Obama is quite a bit better than McCain.

[FreeState]

19. that was more than insulting

While you may find some of us trying to wrap our heads and hearts around what an Obama presidency means for us as boring, stating so in the manner you just did is not going to win you or Obama any supporters. You can not force people to forgive and forget.

[Zuiderelle]

22. *yawn*

you again?

[LostinVA]

23. *yawn*

Will he give me a pony, too?

[Creideiki]

24. Not sure that ensuring equality for all Americans is among his top priorities

at least the LGBT ones. That's the issue.

[Moloch]

28. Obama supports:

Adding sexual orientation to federal hate crime laws.
Employment Non-Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.
Gay couples having the same adoption rights as straights.
A full repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Civil Unions with the same rights as marriage. (There were no Democratic candidates besides Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich who supported gay marriage. I don't know why Obama has always been given so much flak for this, yet Clinton was not.)

[Creideiki]

29. How about whether or not it will be a priority

There's a difference between, "I won't veto it if it comes up," and, "I'll expend energy and political capital on this because it's the right thing to do."

[mitchtv]

32. I didn't ask what the fuck he supports

I simply asked if the strate obama person who came here to tell us in another post was lying or telling the truth about tMcClurkin. Turns out he was not telling the truth. I really don't care what you think or say, your crediblity is at the zilch level arounf here.

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. "Busy" being oppressed?

You make it sound like being oppressed something we do for a hobby.

(Expletive removed by poster)

I am delighted to know that your sense of entitlement and priviledge allows you to belittle the hatred and fear we face every day.

[mitchtv]

31. yeah we'll help, but

No one is going to revise history for him. (or should I say Him?) Sorry if " you have no where else to go" doesn't buy much here

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. in addition, i think the biggest problem wiht this on DU has been people

telling us to get over it.

i can vote for the greater good without getting over it.

i also resent when people tell me what i can and cannot get aggrieved about

reminds me of the snickers debacle. the add was homophobic, which in time i could forget, but people telling me to "get over it" just cemented it more in my head