Fag hag

[ccharles000]

How does everyone feel about this term? I personally do not mind it when my girl friends refer to them selfs as fag hags.

[Maddy McCall]

1. The first time I heard it, Dookus *god rest his soul) said it to me....

I had proposed to him...I so adored him....and we were having a lively, fun discussion in the lounge. Kidding back and forth....

However, the term did hurt my feelings because I'd never heard it before.

But after everyone explained to me what it meant, it didn't bother me any more.

I'm admittedly a "fag hag." I LOVE LOVE LOVE my gay guy friends.

[MuseRider]

9. Ahhh Dookus

I so miss Dookus and his puppy!

[Kurovski]

2. It's old.

I haven't heard a young person use it in twenty years. Is it still in use? What area of the country do you live in?

It always had an edge of negativity to it, as if no other men would hang around the woman mentioned.

But I remember it being used both jocularly--with affection, and also as an insult.

I never cared much for it. The word "hag" is edged with ugliness.

[ccharles000]

6. I live in North Carolina.

[Moloch]

3. I think they prefer to be called "Fruit Flies"...

Some people don't mind.. but its not generally nice to call people "fags" or "hags"

[Myoho]

4. Derogatory

from a gay man... the term needs to be laid to rest.

[aquart]

5. Ugh.

Exactly the same as I feel when a black guy calls himself a "nigger." He's earned the right to call himself anything he pleases, but don't ever expect me to say it.

[Toasterlad]

7. Here's an Old Thread on the Subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I love the term, and so do all my female friends. But I wouldn't use it among people I don't know.

[mitchtv]

13. Thanks for digging that one up

doesn't bother me, but I am part of that generation who has almost a complete dialect, due to alienation. It kept our society more exclusive and prevented many drug busts by excluding narcs(all strate in those days)I hate to hear strate folks use any or our double edged terms.

[DarkTirade]

8. I've never really liked it.

Even as a 'reclaimed' thing. To each their own though.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i like queer dear better but fag hag is fine.

[bigwillq]

11. I don't mind it.

I am not easily offended when it comes to gay-related language.

I think fag hag is kind of funny.

[readmoreoften]

12. Our straight male buddies who hang out with mostly gay men call themselves 'fruit flies'

Round these parts, we lesbians call our straight male friends 'lesbros'.

[Kurovski]

14. I never heard "lesbros" before.

The bottom line on all this is--I think--that there are terms out there for people who "traditionally" aren't supposed to "hang" together with us. More of the way we get separated by the real elites in this country. So, in the changing societal mores, you would be something different. ( I'll say special, because in a way you would be a "pioneer".)

In the old days, you weren't supposed to be Friends with gays and lesbians because (HORRORS!) you would also be mistaken for one. It also implies that being gay is all about sex.

So really, when you get down to it, it's all part of the change, and has it's positive connotations as we can see from this , and the linked thread. Often it's personal taste, and it's also the intention of the user.

But "lesbros" is just plain cute, IMO.

[ccharles000]

15. It may be more offensive but my lesbian Friends call straight men

who hang out with them dyke tykes.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. Fruit Flies, thats great..I have a few of those...LOL

[BillSam]

18. Fruit flies? Do they actually use that HORRIBLE term in FRONT

of their gay friends -- or behind their backs (which is probably even worse)?

Be honest -- one straight guy you know made a joke about this -- it's not some kind of trend.

And why do "straight" guys hang out with mostly gay men anyway? That's carrying "gay-friendliness" to an extreme.

"Lesbros" is kind of cute, I suppose, but I doubt it will catch on either.

Anyway the whole business with "fag hag" was covered in a previous thread, I believe someone above even provided a link.

[readmoreoften]

19. Hey I promise to report your fascinating evaluation to my buddies.

1) Be honest? About what? Did I say, "the term fruit flies is a-stormin' the nation!" Huh? No. A few guys in our crew use the term--I'm not submitting it to the goddamned Oxford English Dictionary for the hottest new trend of 2008. Frankly I'd rather that terms of endearment that our friends have invented for one another not catch on. We're not branding a fucking soft drinks. We're communicating to one another as human beings.

2) Yeah they use the "horrible" term in front of their gay friends. It's called a sense of humor.

3) Why are you using scare quotes on the word "straight" as if the sexuality of straight men who have gay friends is suspect? These""""""""straight""""""" men hang out with their gay friends because they enjoy being around people who don't heap social expectations on them or trash-talk women or act competitively for no reason at all. And they also happen to have common interests with the gay men they happen to be friends with.

4) These same straight guys hang out with dykes too. Are the dykes who hang out with them carrying "straight-friendliness" to an extreme? Am I only a """lesbian"""" and not a REAL lesbian without scare quotes because I have a lot of straight male buddies?

5) What on earth is "taking gay-friendliness to an extreme"? Is there a line straights should never cross? I will befriend 'teh gay' up until this point but no further? You might want to send this information to PFLAG and to all those groups that say "lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, and allies. They're probably crossing those lines left and right.

6) I don't give a fuck what some guy who started some thread thinks about the term fag hag or fruit fly or queer dear or any other linguistic phenomenon used by a group of people. If someone doesn't like those terms, I expect they'll let me know about it. I don't come here for schooling on gay etiquette, thanks.

But thank you for your concern.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. ...

i have 'straight' friends too, maybe i should tell them they are carrying gay friendly to an EXTREME...

[BillSam]

29. Talk about an OVER-reaction!

What IS your friggin' problem? Your level of anger is WAY out of proportion to my comments.

1. I have a great sense of humor; I just don't happen to care for the term "fruit flies" or the term "fag hag," which is my prerogative. I don't like being called a fag by anyone. If you don't mind being called a dyke, that's your business.

2. I'm well aware that there are genuinely hetero people who are have many gay friends, are gay-friendly, support gay rights, etc. But Jeez, we've all known SOME people who hang out with gays until they feel comfortable about coming out themselves. I mean, you've seriously NEVER known anyone like that? That certainly isn't the case with all gay-friendly people, but it SOMETIMES is the case, especially with straight-identified people who seem to embrace gay culture to the exclusion of all else (You WERE speaking of straight guys who hang out primarily with gay men, presumably instead of with women or straight guys, not all of whom are troglodytes, by the way). I mean, come on -- everyone who SAYS they're straight is straight? I've certainly met many people who "test the waters" so to speak, until they feel comfortable about telling even gay Friends that they're gay. Who hasn't?

If it turned out that some of your straight friends were gay and had been working through some issues, would you think LESS of them? I wonder.

The rest of your comments are too inane to answer. You're taking one comment of mine and running with it to such a degree -- and with such italicized nastiness -- that I have to feel there's something else going on here.

Sorry you've got a problem with me and/or my comments. Tough!

[readmoreoften]

31. Assuming that straight people who hangout with gay people have issues is idiotic.

Frankly I was so nasty to you because your comments were so bizarre that I assumed that you were a straight person trolling this forum. If you're not straight, sorry you feel offended by the term "fruit flies". And yeah I call myself a dyke, why wouldn't I?

No, I don't know straight people who hang out with gay people because they're testing the waters. All the straight people I know who hang out with gay folks are either perfectly clear about their sexual ambiguity (as in, hey, I'll give it a try) or very comfortable with their straightness.

No all straight guys aren't trolls, but they still tend to impose sets of social expectations on one another.

[BillSam]

34. STRAIGHT?

I guess you haven't encountered any of my previous posts.

Check out my profile and click on my blog. I am an Out and Proud gay guy, completely out of the closet. Name, photo everything. (I am very proud to be gay, and yes, I hate the terms "fag" and "fruit" and don't ever want them applied to me -- or other gay men. That's just how I feel -- as many others do, I believe.)

I"m a bit confused as to why you found my post "bizarre" but I guess that's because I HAVE encountered over the years numerous gay-friendly closet cases and people who hang around with gays, identify as straight, and then after awhile finally come out of the closet.

True story: When I first joined New York's Gay Activists Alliance more years ago than I care to remember, the vice president was a straight woman. Two years later she came out as a lesbian! And she was VP of one of the most militant Gay Rights groups in the country. Yet in the closet.

Strange, but true.

And yes, this kind of thing is still going on. It's interesting that you haven't encountered it but I have. And of course I know numerous gay-supportive straight people who are "perfectly" straight.

Peace. Glad to clear up a misunderstanding. (I once suggested we should reveal what we're about -- gay, straight, what-have-you in all of our posts; maybe we should.)

[DarkTirade]

25. ... why shouldn't straight guys hang out with gay guys?

And why the need to put it in quotations?

[BillSam]

30. No reason why they shouldn't -- that's not my point

See my answer above.

[and-justice-for-all]

16. Does not bother me at all...

and neither does the term fag, since I now know where it originated and it's reference to a bundle of sticks and a cigarette.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. Hmmm.... Why "a bundle of sticks"?

>>>I now know where it originated and it's reference to a bundle of sticks and a cigarette.>>>

[swimmernsecretsea]

23. Because they were the starters for the bonfire...

when they were burned, along with other persecuted people, such as women accused of witchcraft. I'm not kidding. I'll have to Google to confirm, but that's what I was told about 25 years ago.

Of course, it has long since lost the connection to this meaning. I am reminded of when an actress friend of mine moved to the UK to study at the Royal Academy of Theater, and from the window in her apartment across the street, she could see a huge storefront banner for a tobacconist reading "FAGGOTS."

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. That's my understanding also... though there is some dispute...

...as there always is over things etymological. But burning at the stake for sexual nonconformity is pretty well established and it is really the only explanation that makes sense as far as it's survival as modern North American usage as a pejorative for gay male.

What I didn't "get" was why the poster didn't object to 'fag' ( from faggot, kindling wood) even though he said he understood where it came from. Not many things really rile me these days but the idea of people burning me to death... or burning people *like* me to death... will still bump my BP up a notch. Call me nuts.

Here's a snippet from wiki:



>>>The etymology of the English word "faggot" is possibly similar to the etymology of the Italian word "finocchio" which literally translates to "fennel." The word "finocchio" is common in Italian profanity (slang) and can be used as a blatant slur equivalent to the word "faggot"; that is, if not in jocular context and depending on its tone and sentiment, in which case it is like using the words "gay' or "queer." Italians use other words for similar use and meaning, but it is popularly assumed that "finocchio" finds its etymology in the age of the "Holy Inquisition." In that era, finocchio, or fennel, was apparently thrown on persons burned at the stake. During "Inquisition" individuals were executed for homosexual acts, as well as other "heresy." Fennel was used in order to mitigate the stench of burned flesh, especially since it is a common herb seen throughout Italy. In fact, in English language, "finocchio," the herb, is often referred to as "Florence fennel." The etymology and history of fennel in English, Italian and other languages seems to support this argument.>>>

[swimmernsecretsea]

28. Somehow, I didn't pick up on your being facetious.

I understand how you feel, and I can certainly see why you'd object to the historically negative use of the word and its roots in murdering those in our LGBT history. I do thank you for clarifying your position, and I hope it gives everyone something to think about.

[mitchtv]

32. that's how it was passed down to me

Fire starters.

[Zuiderelle]

22. I don't care for either of those words separately or together.

[swimmernsecretsea]

24. I've heard it used badly, and I've heard it used in fun and with love.

I know, as with many other words that have or had a pejorative use that some people wish to "reclaim" it and therefore remove its power as a weapon. I applaud those who do so, but I understand how it immediately brings up hurtful memories to those of earlier generations, so I be careful.

Molly, a friend of mine when I was going to University in LA who I loved dearly, absolutely hated it when she was called this by another friend. This happened apparently out of her earshot, but she heard about it later. She didn't like the feeling of her friendship with Perry and I to be reduced to being referred to as a "fag hag." I tried to tell her that it shouldn't mean anything, and that she was letting someone get to her. We never let her hear that word in our presence, if we could help it. She was studying at Rabbinical School when I knew her most closely, and being Jewish, I think she was sensitive to name calling and persecution.

Molly is the only person I knew who did not like this name. Everyone other woman I knew laughed it off, or even thought of it as a term of endearment.

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. I've used it. It's an 'ingroup /outgroup' thing.

You have to know who you're talking to. It's a term of affection but can fall flat if everyone's not on the same page.

[kdpeters]

33. I've never known the gay folk to mind, but some of our straight female friends don't care for it.

Some don't mind, but I've known a few who found it hurtful. I don't think it's offensive in general, but it's always good to know how the recipient of such a label feels about it before bestowing it upon her.