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What do you say to a parent that tells you she is worried you wont go to heaven?

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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:19 PM
Original message
What do you say to a parent that tells you she is worried you wont go to heaven?
My mom is a wonderful person but she is really religious and does not like that I am gay. When I came out to her two years ago she told me she loved me and that she hopes that I got over it. The other day we were watching tv and and I made a comment that a guy on some show was cute she started tearing up and told me she was afraid I was not going to heaven. I did not say anything. I know that she loves me but I don't think she will ever accept my being gay. :(
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ask Her What Kind of God Makes Someone Gay and Then Sends Them to Hell For It.
Or, you could simply tell her that you hope she "gets over" her religious fantasies.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. +1
Though I wouldn't outright say her religious beliefs are fantasy... that's too harsh.

Your subject line itself is perfect. God would not make anyone gay and send them to Hell.

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. remind her that Jesus forbade divorce, but said absolutely nothing about homosexuality
so your chances of going to heaven are far, far better than Ronald Reagan's were.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well...
What makes your moms definition of heaven any better than yours? I feel bad for both of you. Her feeling like her son will go to hell and you for having to deal with the pressure and insensitivity. If 'God' made you the way you are, why would she think you would not be accepted into heaven? I know, arguing religion is a fruitless exercise, but that is how I look at it.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tell her "I'll save you a seat by the fire," perhaps?
That's what I say to the holier-than-thous.

Let he who is without sin, and all that....!
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's a heartbreaker. It might help if you knew a religious ...
...person she trusted (like a gay friendly priest) who would reassure her that she would see you in her heaven because you're a good person and she loves you.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. She won't change,accept it. Tell her you feel like you're already
in heaven everytime you are with her. A sense of humor often eases things.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. I guess you can't really joke around
if she's tearing up. My family leans more toward snark, and I can imagine myself saying something like "Don't worry, there are already a thousand other reasons I won't be going there."

In a serious moment, I guess I might say something like "I'm sorry the church is teaching you that, sounds like they have you pretty upset." I don't know if that's too confrontational, but I do see it as the church being the cause of the tension.

Have you ever brought up going to a PFLAG meeting at a local church?

(In reality - you probably handled it about as well as you could have by just holding your tongue.)

I wish I had better suggestions - I'm sorry you are having to go through this.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Remind her that "God don't make no junk"
If you didn't like her so much, I'd suggest saying that it's really only up to her to worry how she gets to heaven.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. 'God wouldn't have made me if . . . .
:-)
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Tell her you are worried she will go to heaven. The musicians there blow
Who the fuck cares where you maybe might mythologically go if fairy tales are true. What are you doing today to make this heaven on earth?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. How about looking for help from someone like "Parents & Friends of Lesbian & Gays" . . .???
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 09:34 PM by defendandprotect
Tell her every set of parents has a 30% chance of having a homosexual child.

That means there are a lot of parents and friends of gays around --

She's worried about you because she loves you -- she shouldn't be dealing with

this alone.

Good luck!!

:)
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. You tell her to trust the God she believes in to make the right choice for you.
Remind her of her own beliefs and that the love she has from God flows to you.

Don't be harsh, it doesn't help. There really is no requirement that parents accept your life choices or all of who you are.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. "Life Choices"?
Care to explain?
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. What car you drive, what job you take, where you live...I think its pretty self explanatory.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Why Are You Equating Homosexuality With Life Choices?
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I didn't and I don't and you need to take the time think about what you read.
As it is...I responded to the OP, not you. So this dialogue is over. You read what you wanted to read, not what is truly there. Deal with it.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. "There really is no requirement that parents accept your life choices"
You wrote that. In a thread about a parent struggling with a child's homosexuality.

You need to take the time to think about what you write.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. You are both correct...
Edited on Sun Aug-02-09 12:03 PM by kirby
To be honest, when I read his post initially, I interpreted it as a general comment about parents being non-accepting of their kids behaviour (which seems to be a universal struggle). However, considering one of the sensitive issues is how being gay is labelled as a lifestyle choice that simply needs to be 'cured', I can understand why you interpreted it that way. Too bad you two couldn't have seen this miscommunication rather than talking past one another.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I Got the Intent. I Wanted to Give the Poster a Chance to Explain the Poor Choice of Words.
They chose to get defensive and pretend there was no way what they wrote could be interpreted as offensive.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. Any chance you could find a minister she'd respect who could speak to her
and help her to see things differently?

Otherwise, get her a copy of the book "Prayers for Bobby" or at least the Lifetime movie base on the book.

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. as an old queen once said (maybe in City of Night)
"If God hated queers, why did he make so many?"
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Tell her to read the Gospel according to St. Luke, Chapter 12, Verse 32
"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." In fact, the entire chapter is very instructive. I was lucky: My mother, in fact my whole family, have always been very accepting and supportive. I hope yours will be, too, some day soon. :pals:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Try this website for her
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. There is no perfect answer, but once you go down the "God made me" or
"God doesn't make junk" path then you paint yourself into a corner. If a person uses a religious argument then a person who is a (fill in the blank with whatever bad or evil type of person you can think of) might claim, "well, God made me this way". The counterargument would be, "but God gave you a choice" and if you accept that then being gay becomes a choice also.

The "God doesn't make junk, or make mistakes" argument is also a minefield because if God doesn't make junk or mistakes and "so and so is a........, then did God make them or not or did God make a mistake?" Then you get back to the person made a choice argument and could choose not to do or be .......

In Christianity, God has no grandchildren, only children. Salvation is between you and God and nobody else. In Christianity it may be as simple as accepting and believing in Jesus, or as complex as setting up a rigid set of rules and laws to try and work your way to God and God considers those kind of works to be garbage. If you are a Christian and truly a believer in Jesus, then your life will reflect that in one way or another, more perfectly or less perfectly than the next believer. Jesus said in John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Jesus never once condemned anyone for being gay. He even refused to condemn the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and never claimed she would eventually go to hell.

There are many who call themselves Christians who are all worked up about somebody being gay and are more than anxious to condemn them to hell and they are not doing it out of love. Your mother's concern for you is out of love and it has only been 2 years, but she will come around precisely because she does love you and she will see you are a Christian and see God reflected in you by the way you lead your life and by your love for others. I am sure that many other parents of gays have traveled this path before.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. mention that paul was gay.....
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Check PFLAG's literature.

I believe they have some helpful brochures on this problem.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ask her why she damns people for not wanting to live their lives without Love, but, apparently,
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 10:30 PM by patrice
forgives others for not making easy little changes in their lives like not gossiping, for example.
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. My mom decided God wouldn't make a flawed creature, so if I'm gay, then she could accept it.
She used to cry and say the same thing to me.

Very very fundamentalist family, here. It took my folks 10 years to deal with my being gay. Just assure her that you're ok and you don't believe you're going to hell. If she really loves you, then no matter what she says, more than anything, she's worried about you.

Be strong and patient. You're doing the right thing.

Peace
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. I tell people that if there's a hell, that's exactly where I want to go.
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 10:36 PM by burning rain
Word has it there's no sex or booze or sin of any kind in heaven, so I'd prefer the other place. Seriously, the belief in heaven and hell is so silly that goofing on people who entertain it is certainly justified.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Tell her there is no god so there's nothing to worry about. nt
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. I have the same problem due to being an atheist.
My feeling is that you might have some luck if you do a sort of bible study session with her.

Prepare by reviewing Leviticus and making a list of the sins included besides homosexuality. When the opportunity presents itself start asking her opinion about the risk to one's soul (for example) of engaging in such perverse behavior as eating beef*.
There are a lot of examples so I wouldn't dwell on any one too long. My favorites are the ones regarding bodily fluids and excretions.


* Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. Appropriate Billy Graham
This is obviously tough for you, because you love and your Mom love each other. I think it points to great strength in both of you that you can love each other despite this huge impasse.

I would quote Billy Graham.
"whatever it takes to make you happy in Heaven will be there"

Assure her that if she has faith in God and trusts God to come up with the right solution, there will be a way.

I have seen that quote attributed to Billy Graham in response to a debate about whether pets go to heaven. I am not equating gays with pets in any way. It's a very meaningful statement. If one accepts the belief of a just and merciful God, then how can they believe that God would be so cruel. And if they honestly believe that being gay is a sin, do they really believe this God of love would punish some one for the supposed sins of another? If God loves her and cares that she have complete happiness in her eternal reward, God will find a place for you in heaven.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. CC, there's some loving replies here, and eventually I know you and she will find a way...
:hug: I really do. I've never had to deal with what you and she are going through (although my now-adult kids gave me plenty of other challenges, lol) so all I can think of is you telling her, "I will always try to be a good person, and that's what you and God both want of me." As for the rest, like I said there's some loving replies here and I've heard that PFLAG is a really good organization.

Always the best to you,

Hekate

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Give her time
remind her that she loves you--and since God is love, the greatest love, how can God keep you away?

And quietly pray that her mind will become as open as her heart is in regards to you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
34. Tell her she's not god and neither is her minister
and neither is your judge.

Tell her if god hates gays, he shouldn't have made any of them.

Remind her that none of the ten commandments says anything about gays. Only the priests did, and none of them were god, either.

Just don't expect it to penetrate all the conditioning. She's never going to accept you for who you really are. The best you can hope for is an armed truce.

She might surprise you and come around eventually. Then again, she might not.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
35. Tell her if she judges she won't go to heaven. Do not judge lest you be judged.
Edited on Sun Aug-02-09 12:50 AM by bkkyosemite
edit: Oh and we are all God's children..don't forget that one.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
36. well, since there is no heaven, your mom isn't going, either.
Though I wouldn't put it to her quite so bluntly.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. The RC church teaches dogs can't go to heaven
in that case , count me out
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
41. The Bible says a lot of things.
The Bible says that, in heaven, the saved believers can see the smoke from the fires of hell, rising up from the pit. Maybe on the edge is a heavenly picnic spot for believers to bask in the warmth of the flames, toast a few 'mallows and have a few laughs. Yeah, that sounds lovely. I know *I'D* want to hear the screams of the tormented for all eternity, knowing some of those people are friends and relatives. It would make me even happier to be saved.

Seriously, what kind of god would build such a place? I want no part of him, her or it.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. Open your mouth, tip your head back, point and screech at her...nt
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 01:30 PM by LeftHander
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm so sorry for you, and for your mom, who sounds like she sincerely worries
Makes me feel kinda bad that I just ignored the same sort of thing from my dad (I'm an atheist).

He probably *did* picture me burning in hell, now that I think of it, but we were not a demonstrative family - he'd tell me I'd change my mind on my deathbed, I'd say no I won't, and that'd be the end of it for a few months.....

I don't even know how strongly my parents actually believed - they certainly weren't avid bible readers or church goers. (And they supplied me with all the quality children's books and magazines I could read, which was a lot, leading us to the burning question of how they could expect me to turn out anything *but* an atheist.... ;-> )

Sorry, something about the situation sent me on a trip down memory lane. I sure hope you and your mom can work it out.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. Ask her if she's eaten any shellfish lately.
After all, the bible describes it as an abomination, same as being gay.
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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. If it were me I'd say one word: "GOODBYE."
There's nothing 'parental' about what she did.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
46. Humans only live for so long
and therefore can only commit a finite amount of sin. To provide infinite punishment for finite sin is unjust, and an unjust deity isn't worthy of worship.
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