Why we can't get rid of failing teachers.

[tonysam]

More bullshit from the bullshit brigade of hack reporters who take their marching orders from know-nothing billionaires.

Newsweek is as bad as the NYT in trashing teachers.

Yet in recent years researchers have discovered something that may seem obvious, but for many reasons was overlooked or denied. What really makes a difference, what matters more than the class size or the textbook, the teaching method or the technology, or even the curriculum, is the quality of the teacher. Much of the ability to teach is innate—an ability to inspire young minds as well as control unruly classrooms that some people instinctively possess (and some people definitely do not). Teaching can be taught, to some degree, but not the way many graduate schools of education do it, with a lot of insipid or marginally relevant theorizing and pedagogy. In any case the research shows that within about five years, you can generally tell who is a good teacher and who is not.

It is also true and unfortunate that often the weakest teachers are relegated to teaching the neediest students, poor minority kids in inner-city schools. For these children, teachers can be make or break. "The research shows that kids who have two, three, four strong teachers in a row will eventually excel, no matter what their background, while kids who have even two weak teachers in a row will never recover," says Kati Haycock of the Education Trust and coauthor of the 2006 study "Teaching Inequality: How Poor and Minority Students Are Shortchanged on Teacher Quality."

Nothing, then, is more important than hiring good teachers and firing bad ones. But here is the rub. Although many teachers are caring and selfless, teaching in public schools has not always attracted the best and the brightest. There once was a time when teaching (along with nursing) was one of the few jobs not denied to women and minorities. But with social progress, many talented women and minorities chose other and more highly compensated fields. One recent review of the evidence by McKinsey & Co., the management consulting firm, showed that most schoolteachers are recruited from the bottom third of college-bound high-school students. (Finland takes the top 10 percent.)

This piece is full of goddamned lies and ignorance about how the system of public education REALLY works. They peddled lies that teachers are stupid, incompetent, and should be shitcanned even more easily than they are now.

In reality, teachers are fired all the time and for the stupidest of reasons. It is, however, almost impossible to get rid of administrators beginning with principals. THEY are the real problem in education.

This onslaught of anti-teacher propaganda in the media is CLEARLY organized.

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[NJmaverick]

1. Are you claiming these facts and figures, from the article, are false?

<<In New York City in 2008, three out of 30,000 tenured teachers were dismissed for cause. The statistics are just as eye-popping in other cities. The percentage of teachers dismissed for poor performance in Chicago between 2005 and 2008 (the most recent figures available) was 0.1 percent. In Akron, Ohio, zero percent. In Toledo, 0.01 percent. In Denver, zero percent.>>

[FBaggins]

8. Certainly "misleading" if not false.

In NY, I understand that the vast bulk of "cause" cases end in the teacher leaving before the process is completed.

[NJmaverick]

11. Are there any references I can use to confirm this?

[tonysam]

12. Don't you dare question me.

I have been through this fucking termination process, and I KNOW what I am fucking talking about.

[NJmaverick]

13. I am sorry about your job. However I am going ask questions

because the truth and facts matter.

[Dinger]

You Know I Won't

tonysam, please post this in GD or GDP.

[mbperrin]

38. New York is going to get rid of 8500 teachers next year, period.

http://gothamschools.org/2010/01/25/city-could-have-8500-fewer-teachers-next-year-bloomberg-says/

City could have 8,500 fewer teachers next year, Bloomberg says
by Anna Phillips
Claiming that Governor Paterson’s budget plan would put an undue burden on New York City, Mayor Bloomberg said the state’s proposed cut to city schools would mean 8,500 fewer teachers next year.

The cut to schools — Bloomberg put it at $500 million while the state says it’s $418 million — likely means that principals will have a hard time finding funds to replace teachers who leave the system or retire and may have to lay off others. Those who do find replacements will likely have to woo teachers from other schools who are already on the city’s payroll, leading to a complicated reshuffling.




Must not be terribly complicated to get rid of teachers. No need to label them terminated for cause.

[LiberalFighter]

2. Need to give credit where it is due by naming the dumbass writers.

Evan Thomas and Pat Wingert

[tonysam]

20. They're non-educators, just like the idiot who wrote the NYT Magazine piece

this past weekend.

It's all talking points against teachers, and it's right out of the billionaire boys' playbook.

[frazzled]

3. Like these three?

In a letter addressed to parents and community members, a South Los Angeles elementary school principal apologized Thursday for “questionable decisions” about which prominent African Americans to highlight in a parade marking the culmination of Black History Month.

Lorraine Abner’s letter did not name the individuals. But her apology came after three teachers at Wadsworth Avenue Elementary School were suspended while the Los Angeles Unified School District investigates allegations that they had their first-, second- and fourth-grade students carry pictures of O.J. Simpson, Dennis Rodman and RuPaul at last Friday’s event.

“Unfortunately, questionable decisions were made in the selection of noteworthy African American role models,” the letter said. “As the principal, I offer my apology for these errors in judgment.”

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/03/principal-applogizes-for-black-history-month-celebration-that-included-oj-simpson-rodman-rupaul.html

What is the likelihood these three racist teachers--who had their elementary students carry pictures of RuPaul and O. J. Simpson and Dennis Rodman to signify great African Americans--will be fired? I'd say zero to none.

I'm beginning to feel like teachers are getting too defensive at this point: there is no one who has ever attended a public (or private, for that matter) school in this country or sent their kids to school who hasn't encountered some teachers who shouldn't be there, or teachers who could have improved their classroom performance and techniques--as well as some excellent teachers. Until you can accept that, railing against these small truths makes you seem like drunks in denial. If you want to defend your profession, you should be interested in improving it and learn to take suggestions as just that--suggestions, not criticism.

Many on the left who read that article yesterday (myself included) found it both balanced and interesting in its findings.

[NJmaverick]

10. I agree, children and their futures are just too important. We can't treat

teachers as sacred cows that are above any sort of accountability or scrutiny.

[Dinger]

31. This Isn't About "accountability" Or "scrutiny" And You KNOW It

It's about blaming teachers, firing them to save $, ending public education, busting unions, oh shit, there's more. I'm too pissed now. Come back later.

[AnneD]

36. ITA,

My bull shit detector won't stop ringing.......

[LiberalFighter]

4. I call bullshit on their top 1500 high schools.

Primarily schools that are specialized should not be included.

[movonne]

5. Their pay stinks...it is hard to get good teachers when we don't

want to pay them for one of the hardest jobs and important jobs... teaching our children..

[leftofcool]

6. This is in part true, but

people who really want to teach, never do it for the money. There are many good teacher who will teach regardless of how much money they make. Some are born to it, some are not. All teachers want to be paid a fair and decent wage but the really good ones know that they will never make any money as long as they stay in the education field. Some of us chose to do it anyway.

[FBaggins]

9. They may not "do it for the money", but

there is no doubt that there are many people who would love to teach but can't afford it.

There's a difference between "doing it for the money" and "not enough money to make ends meet"

Teacher compensation should be high enough (or include a range that extends high enough) that our best college graduates consider teaching right up there with engineering/medicine/business or other professional occupations.

[leftofcool]

15. Assuming the State budget would allow this....

If you know of any State budget that can afford to pay it't teacher on this scale, please send list. I know some very good teachers who might just move to said states.

"Teacher compensation should be high enough (or include a range that extends high enough) that our best college graduates consider teaching right up there with engineering/medicine/business or other professional occupations."

[tonysam]

14. It isn't "partly true." School districts are political institutions

and office politics are RIFE in them.

You can't sit there and tell me what constitutes a "lousy" teacher and that they are fired because they are lousy, for that is strictly in the eye of the beholder.

I was canned NOT because I was shitty--I was ILLEGALLY fired because the principal ignored FMLA.

All principals have to do is create a paper trial against a teacher, which they can invent from whole cloth, with the knowledge they will ALWAYS be backed by the district.

Wrongful terminations happen all the time in schools.

[leftofcool]

19. In 23 years of teaching, I never saw one teacher

wrongfully terminated. In fact, I know of only one teacher that was fired and she was given several chances prior to termination. I am sure wrongful terminations happen often but I have have not known anyone who had that experience.

[tonysam]

21. They do happen, and it is often, and it is MORE often

than people are willing to give credit for. Age discrimination especially is becoming more and more common because districts want to save on the bottom line.

Don't even DISPUTE my own story. It is a FACT. The district is about to be taken to federal court over it.

Also, what happens is the districts will "offer" a teacher to resign in lieu of a termination. They sign the letter, which they waive ALL rights to unemployment insurance and a lawsuit in exchange for a "good recommendation." Well, there are states out there, including Oregon and California, where this is NOT allowed, because it is believed that if you resign in lieu of a termination, you have admitted guilt for whatever "transgression" you have committed, and districts cannot write a "good recommendation" for that is dishonest. If they don't want you, why would a district recommend you? (What is a kicker is California REQUIRES a copy of the hearing officer's decision if you answer if you have been fired, and hearing officers almost NEVER rule in a teacher's favor because they are bought and paid for by the districts typically.)

I wasn't even given THAT option. This idiot principal didn't even know what she was doing when she fired me, and trust me, she got in hot water over it. She shouldn't even have a job at Washoe County School District, but they moved her to another school this past year. How convenient, but it doesn't do any good to move her around. Her name and current job are on the website.

Teachers are often prohibited from discussing their cases because they sign gag orders.

[leftofcool]

22. I didn't see anyone in this thread dispute "your" story

[tonysam]

23. I am absolutely SICK of the talking points that teachers can't be fired.

They are, and all the time, and not just for real "misconduct," and it's becoming more and more and more common, even with "tenure."

[mzteris]

30. nevermind . . self-delete

but you KNOW what i'ma thinking . . .

[mzteris]

29. a lawsuit has been filed?? Really??? n/t

[Hannah Bell]

33. *salivating*

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I have known one and it was a very sad story

A kid lied and accused the teacher of sexual misconduct. He was a great teacher but very demanding of his students. It worked because he got results. But apparently he upset this one kid who made a false accusation and the teacher ended up being fired and his certificate was revoked.

The reason I know it was a false accusation is because the kid later admitted making it up and tried to help the teacher get his certification back. But the state wouldn't give it back to him.

[mzteris]

25. reason # 7 now?

omfg. . .

did you forget or just can't keep it straight?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

34. mystery of life: why is it that people who use the roly icon are all *a******s*?

[Fruittree]

37. I think at least in our state , teachers make a pretty good salary

plus good benefits. It would be impossible to pay much more or give much more given that the pay comes from taxes and we can only afford to pay so much in taxes. I agree it's a difficult job but, it can't be just about money past a certain point.

[leftofcool]

7. In my expereince, some of this article is true. Paragraph #2

[tonysam]

16. It isn't so much they are the "weakest" teachers in terms of ability, but the fact

that they are inexperienced.

We NEED to pay teachers MORE to teach in inner city schools.

[leftofcool]

17. "We NEED to pay teachers MORE to teach in inner city schools."

Yes we do.

[tonysam]

18. The problem is with the inexperience.

And also the fact it takes YEARS and YEARS before a teacher becomes really good at what he or she does, but from this article, hell, let's just get rid of them and have revolving door teachers.

Kids NEED a stable learning environment which "tenure" has guaranteed because principals aren't as tempted to fire teachers for stupid or petty reasons, although it happens too often. Districts are protected from a boatload of wrongful termination lawsuits as a result of "tenure."

[YvonneCa]

24. I taught in an inner city school. Explain to me...

...about why we should be paid more when at the same time we are being pushed out? I'm still trying to get a handle on that...

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I still teach in an urban school

and if they try to push me out I will be pushing back :)

[Dinger]

28. I Just Read That breathtakingly HORSESHIT Article

Fucking takes my breath away. let's be clear Obama and duncan and the rest, you LOSE our vote with this BULLSHIT!

write friends, and tell newsWEAK and their ild to go to hell. I am going to try. And with my recent teaching award, I think I have something to say about it, as do ALL of you! Damn, WE HAVE TO FIGHT THIS (or keep on fighting).

How dare you newsweek, HOW DARE YOU!!!!!

[Starry Messenger]

32. What's even more frustrating is knowing that this fake reform

will lose the interest of the billionaires once they've creamed all the $$ they can make off of it. They'll screw up a bunch of crap and public education will be like some island colony they sucked dry and left to fend for itself after all the gold and resources were mined out of it. :(

[tonysam]

35. The thing these articles really don't tell you is that disciplinary actions

against teachers including terminations are governed by administrative law. It is not the same thing as civil law or criminal law. Administrative law has been described by at least one observer as a "black hole" for school districts to get even more goodies favorable to their side by changing the law.

You find that even when a school district principal violates administrative law and the union contract, they aren't worth the paper they're written on if a hearing officer rules in favor of a school district, which is almost always the case outside NYC. You can appeal the hearing officer's decision, but you have to pay the legal expenses out of your pocket, which are astronomical. You only have 90 days to find a lawyer and begin to appeal it through the court system, at least in Nevada, and it is spelled out by statute the absolute limits one can appeal, and the limits are laughably narrow, such as a hearing officer being tainted with "bias."

If you try to sue in civil court, at least in Nevada, there are no laws for wrongful termination; only federal, and they are extremely narrow grounds. Then you have a problem of finding a lawyer who will take the case knowing districts will drag out cases for years on end. Few lawyers will do it.

So really, those "protections" teachers supposedly have don't actually exist in reality. They have no more rights than a burger flipper or a casino worker.

Here is a horror story from NAPTA warning about administrative law (this is Florida, but it applies everywhere):

Let teachers know that the administrative law realm is a black hole where they can do anything to a teacher for however long they want to. Attorneys demand big bucks up front because there are no damages to recover in administrative law. Also, the lawyer lobby for the school districts and state education departments are each year getting more and more insidious legislation passed in the administrative law so they can destroy any teacher or administrator easily and legally. I have discovered in Florida a new bit of bad law with a word twist here and there is added each year castrating teacher protections and due process.

Also, I don 't know the legal term, but here in Florida teachers are cast into the group of professionals such as doctors and lawyers as professionals who can protect themselves legally (because of the money they make). It 's a joke.

...

I talk to new teacher online. They are already getting out of education. Some moved back in with their parents while they retrain. Karen, there isn 't a teacher shortage. There is a shortage of new cannon fodder to be used up. The system doesn 't expect teachers to last more than 7-10 years now. My teacher friends ' children all went into other professions. Not one chose teaching. As much as I love it and am a natural born teacher, if I had to do it over again, I would have chosen a different field. Now that I am so in debt I have no way to pay for retraining and my age is now a factor too.

Karen, I can hold a little respect for the mafia. They are what they are and make no bones about it. They are thieves, killers, intimidators, etc. You know what you 're dealing with when they come to your door.

But in my heart I have come to know that school districts and state education departments are of much worse character and violence. They publicly act so respectably and yet quietly, secretly use the power of the government and self crafted administrative laws to kill off and intimidate innocents. If I had to deal with the mafia or the governmental school machine, I 'd choose the mafia. I know what I am dealing with, the public would be scared but sympathetic and the mafia would do the kindness of just putting a bullet in my head. So much has happened to me Karen that I can 't put it all into words. The public doesn 't care. My community doesn 't care. No one cares. If you are targeted you are alone. I won 't do it, but I understand the mental anguish of going postal. The other staff at the school sees what is happening and that is wrong but they run and not rally in sisterhood against this evil. They are cowards.

What I have belatedly discovered is that unless I had a pile of money and knew my way around the legal system, I will never get justice or be made whole in any aspect of my life. The educational machine are the quiet SS Nazi’s in our midst and no one wants to know or acknowledge the beast for it doesn 't seem to directly harm them. The bell has already tolled loudly for years and was ignored. Now it shall begin coming for them too. It will be too late.

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Since school districts almost always prevail in hearings, the hearing officers referring to law refer to other rigged cases to form the basis of their own rigged opinion. So there is virtually NO way a teacher can win in the legal system.