My friend Z's problems

[jinto86]

I tried posting this is the general board but I didn't get that many responses, though a couple were supportive which I liked. I would like to see what the educators think, though I would guess that most of the responses won't be quite as supportive here.

A few years ago I worked at a summer camp designed for those with special needs. At this camp I found many interesting kids, a few of which I have kept in touch with over the years (all teenagers so don't start thinking anything). One of these kids was named Z (name being shorted to protect his identity). To quote the one who knows him best (his mom), " Z is an intelligent, sensitive, generous young man with lots of energy and opinions on just about any subject under the sun! He is very curious about things and asks a lot of questions, sometimes in many different ways, in order to get the full meaning of things. He likes to be the leader and do things “his way,” but he can also be thoughtful enough to let someone else lead. He doesn’t like to talk or gossip about other people and tries never to hurt anyone’s feelings. He is stubborn sometimes and likes to think that he is always right! He’s a lovable boy!"

Sadly Z had many problems in public school that kept adding up year after year. He had a pretty severe case of ADHD and a more mild case of asperger's syndrome. The two really don't go together very well in todays school system as it caused his teachers to not understand him... and sometimes to belittle him. He didn't have as much trouble with bullies as others with his disabilities frequently have, but this didn't exactly make him popular, in fact most of his days were spent alone. He didn't know how to communicate and that just scared others away. Finally after years of problems with his school, and his grades gradually declining (A caliber student getting Bs and Cs, most Cs then Bs as of late) his mom pulled him out and sent him to a private school for special needs kids.

The problem is that his mom is not sure how long she will be able to afford such a school. The school costs more then 13,000 a year, and that is a hard thing for her to afford. He is getting social skills training, has teachers that understand him and have taken more then one class on how to educate students with special needs, and is fitting in with his new peers as he finally has peers who are like him. I have a hard time believing this isn't the best school for him... though I have seen a few try suggesting its not.

I wish so hard that the government would help him out. They have failed him already, why can't they help him out now. I don't believe that helping one student who clearly has a need that isn't being served in todays one size fits all system, will lead to the privatization of the entire system. I get that his school is expensive, and hard for the school district to pay for. But so is educating him in the public system considering that him and many of his classmates received one on one paras in the old system. I can't imagine a little assistance would hurt anyone, so why would it be so evil to try?

[rucky]

1. The public school system is equipped to help him.

But the parents have to demand every ounce of help out of them to get it.

[jinto86]

2. And be prepared to get an expensive lawyer

School districts spend so much to fight services for special needs kids. Though the private school has services that no public school has. I worked at this disability rights place in Chicago and one of my coworkers was pretty much a self taught lawyer from being a teacher after his severely OCD daughter started getting the same treatment he gave other kids throughout his life. Needless to say it changed his outlook a lot.

P.S. Check out Autism: the Musical sometime.

[Terro]

3. Solve everyone's problem

Why not give the "one size fits all" system the kibosh...for everyone? Why not privatize the entire system? Your friend would benefit along with all the other kids imprisoned in an assigned school that is rotten or does not meet their needs or simply doesn't teach. You shouldn't be embarrassed about wanting better for Z...but realize there is a universe of Z's out there. Schools need to start serving children first, not teachers and administrators.

[jinto86]

4. :Hands you a flame proof jacket:

You might be needing that, I agree (to a point, I think the public school system is good for most just not for all) but you most here don't agree.

[rucky]

5. And handing control to a for-profit corporation oughta take care of that, eh?

[jinto86]

8. Just curious

I don't have the answer or anything, but what % of private schools are for profit?

[rucky]

9. I taught at one (charter).

But i don't know the answer, either.

I have another question. How much of that 13 grand in tuition goes to serving the students?

Even if the entity is "non-profit", there's plenty of room for corruption like what i witnessed in my short teaching career.

[jinto86]

10. I honestly don't know

But with their student/teacher ratio, counseling services and the like, and everything else they get, not to mention FA for some students, I would imagine most of the money goes to the students or to the campus. Beyond that when you really think about it there is corruption in most school districts too, how much do top admins make compared to the teachers are the lower levels despite being the least needed part of the system.

[rucky]

13. So I guess the choice is paying attorneys or paying tuition.

yikes.

[jinto86]

14. Yea pretty much

I honestly think Z had gotten as many services as he was ever going to get though, the problem was the teachers just didn't have enough training. I mean as soon as you get a one on one para... your not getting anything else (or anything additional) but with a "bad" teacher (I used the quotes because his teachers were probably good for most of the students, the para doesn't do much good. We really do need more education for our teachers in special needs kids (and gifted kids) one class is just not enough... even in my 3 years (or 5 if you want to take it all the way back to the very beginning) of recreational studying I didn't learn everything.

[PVnRT]

16. This one didn't last long

[jinto86]

17. Shouldn't there be an = sign in your name right after the PV.

[donco6]

21. God, yet another sockpuppet.

Give it up already. YOu've had this same thread multiple times. You even hijack other threads and MAKE it about this issue. What is it you think we can even do about it anyway? If you have this much energy - talk to Congress. Talk to Rush. You'll get a sympathetic ear there, fer sure.

[jinto86]

22. Arianna Huffington has posted many of the same things

Is she Rush's sockpuppet too?

[mzteris]

6. homeschool.

It's the best option - it's cheap and it'll meet his needs.

[jinto86]

7. She has considered this before

As of a year and a few months ago (I interviewed her as part of a college assignment and asked her about that) she said she was afraid of not being able to do as good of a job as the teachers, time issues (she is a single mother, enough said), and lack of social interation (I actually somewhat disagree with her on this one, but it does make sense). I also think there is a bit of an issue about what to do with his twin brother (indentical twin, but totally different disabilities as all his twin has is mild ADHD, nature versus nurture and all that I guess) if she was to decided to homeschool him. They go to different schools now but to have one being homeschooled and the other formally schooled would probably be even weirder. Though I think she is still considering it, and as he is entering high school next year it becomes more and more of an option as he can do more and more self-directed work and doesn't need his mom to be constantly watching him. Still though, this is an area where we need more virtual charter schools, I don't think she would EVER be able to come up with a circulum on her own so she would need help there.

[mzteris]

15. it's doable.

There are plenty of single parents homeschooling. The beauty of hs'ing is you can do it any time of the day and night and weekends - you're not trapped into the 8-3 mindset.

There are plenty of courses, books, videos, online classes, local co-ops, local tech schools, tutors, etc - that can meet his needs. If she is really interested, she should contact some of her local organizations. Of course, a lot of that depends on where she lives and what type of group she's willing to work with. If she needs any help with that, let me know. You can pm me the town and I'll scout out some groups for her.

As for virtual charter, there are plenty out there and some are not limited to location. Also, "canned curriculums" are available (though I'm not as big a fan of those myself, they're certainly an option and many love them.)

As for the twin, I'd hs both unless the other one doesn't WANT to. Of course as soon as he sees how much fun his brother is having, he'll probably opt for hs'ing, too! :)

[jinto86]

18. I don't think she lives in a very big city

Just a small suburb outside the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Along with this, I don't know if she would fully trust Z home alone (he is 14 but like so many 14 year old aspies, myself included at that age he is a bi...really immature) so that is another 8-3 problem. Then there is the fact that his twin (hereby refered to as Z2... I know weird huh) seems to love school and is Mr. Popular, so homeschooling him would be weird and going on different schedules would be VERY weird (free time on shifts... crazy). Like I said shes still thinking about it, but there are problems.

[Dinger]

11. An Honest Reply

First, I will acknowledge that I am a public school teacher. I have a son (now 28) who has ADD. He was diagnosed in first grade (age 6). Very often ADD does not exist in isolation. There are usually other conditions that may or may not exist. Our son was educated in a wonderful public school system. There were several teachers that I was not happy with,but there were many more I was happy with. It had more to do with living in a rural area where cliques have been formed over generations. As for the teachers I was not happy with, the school system was large enough that I was able to have him go to different teachers. That worked out. He did find some good friends that he still keeps in touch with.
As for your post. It's good that the private school worked out for "Z". Are you sure there is not some program, a scholarship program, something, that can help? Has the mom gone to the school to see if there is anything they can do? Of course assistance won't "hurt" Z, but are you really ready to abandon public schools altogether? One bad situation does not mean that the same is true for all public schools. It's nice to have peers that are "like you." It must be a wonderful and supportive environment, however, the "real world" is not homogeneous. The transition to adult life can be difficult for people who have had limited experiences with the public.
Kids who are "different" do get bullied. That is a huge problem in all schools. Don't be fooled into believing it's in public schools only. It's a serious problem in all schools, and I am glad that our (public) school has a great anti-bullying program. We have seen results. Calls to school from concerned parents are almost non-existent.
We rarely have anyone in lunch detention, rarely.
I always give my students many ways to let me know if someone is bullying them, ways that are private. I did get one note from a little girl in my class this year, but the problem was resolved. I called both parents, and we started a "friends group" for some kids who are bullied or left out. Students who have social skills issues are paired up with students who are positive role models and who are willing to be a friend to kids who are often left out. The kids do fun activities/projects in small (3-4) groups. It has been wonderful.
As for the bullies, they have consequences that are consistent and appropriate. We are in the third year of this program, and I have seen amazing changes in kids that used to bully.

I'm rambling here, so I better stop, for now at least. Hope this doesn't come across as ass-holey or kiss-assey.

[jinto86]

12. Thanks for the response

Public school teachers always know how to best manipulate the system, to get their kids to the best teachers, to get the best services, to get a good IEP, etc. This is not so easy for someone who is not a teacher like Z's mom. Its a sad but true fact of life. When I was a kid my mom regularly tried fighting for an IEP for me, and was regularly told not to worry, my education was fine, and an IEP would just label me for life... and my mom being the trusting lower class sort she was at the time, believed them to a fault. She knew that not everything was alright but didn't figure that would change so she just kept her mouth shut and stayed out of it, and she thought if she tried to complain they might stick me in an ED/BD room, like they had threatened to in the past (and which they probably could have done in a heartbeat knowing how I was back in elementary school).

To tell you the honest truth, I am not quite sure how much she is paying. It might not be the full 13,000, but then again in another post someone mentioned other parents at the same school that payed 20,000 a year... so I really don't know. All I know is that its clear that its creating a financial burden as she has said she probably won't be able to keep him in there all 5 years he has left. I don't want to do away with the public system, but I do think there should be choice involved with it, if thats what you mean. Sadly, I can say, for aspie kids, most public schools are this way. Occasionally you will find a supporting public school system or two... but for the most part nationwise and even worldwide they tend not to be that accepting (thing comes from 1000s (or more) of hours hanging out at wrongplanet and other groups for aspies and parents, and reading books, and reading studies, and every other thing you could imagine, I probably have spent 500 in the past few years on this study). There are sometimes schools like yours (though by the time your Zs age being partnered up can be a bit embarressing) but they are few and far between in my experience.

I get that society in general is not homogeneous... but in the real world when you are "bullied" its called assult, and nobody would be expected to stay at a job that allowed it... schools aren't quite the same and your not allowed to quit school. His mom is keeping him involved in other groups (anytime I get a chance to talk to her or one of the goofs its in and out) so he does frequently get to interact with "normal kids" but its his choice when he does. I remember when I went to school I would come directly home and stay at home all night, and even for the activities I was in I was so worn out that I never bothered to interact with anyone (youth ministry, football team, etc.). Beyond that I barely knew anyone worth interacting with as the football team was full of bullies (horrible idea for me to even join but I love football) and youth ministry was filled with other teens I didn't know and for a socially awqward aspie, saying hi can frequently be the hardest part (still is and I am 23 now). Something tells me that being in a homogenous environment where he wants to interact with others is a lot better then being in a nonhomogenous environment where he gets burned out during the day and can't interact with anyone at night, even if the homogenous environment doesn't reflect the real world.

[kaylynwright]

19. if he had to go to a public school

I don't know what to say about the education aspect of school.

Socially though, if he had to go to a public high school, there are ways to make friends. I knew a few young men with asperger's syndrome while in high school, and most of them did fine socially. One thing I noticed about all of them is that they were very talented in some different ways. One of them got involved with the theater and music department, while the other was very much interested in music (choir, marching band)and got involved with homecoming committee and planning for many school events. At least in my experience, music and theater kids tend to be pretty accepting of all types of students, and these students don't generally have a problem finding a small group they fit in with. These departments can be a little "cliquey," but there are so many small cliques that practical everyone finds a few good friends. So if he did have to go to a public school, maybe he is really skilled at something and can get involved in a group that utilizes that skill?

I hope everything works out for him.

[jinto86]

20. In some ways yes in some ways no

Speaking from my own experience (not neccessarily his) socializing at school can happen, but bullying can happen too. I was involved in debate, orchestra, and athletics (mostly football). Socializing happened, but not at any sort of level that I would consider desirable. I think all in all I had friends over maybe 3 times throughout all of high school (it didn't help that my only real friend my junior year, and probably my best friend throughout high school, was staying at the nearby RTC). Its hard to see that when your at school, because they will be talking to their peers so you figure they are doing fine socially, but their peers see them as being a little weird, and keep their distance friendshipwise, add into the equation severe ADHD and you get a disaster. Its probably a good thing that his twin is pretty good socially, but even that can hurt (trust me, my bro is too good socially and it can lead to jealousy and the like, even though he is not a twin) Not saying this is the case in every case, but certainly in most this holds true, especcially during 8th grade.

Beyond that there are very few ways of stopping bullying at that level if it was allowed to be created beforehand. And bullying can be as bad of a problem in the long run.