13 y.o.'s suicide. Did anyone hear Kuby's AAR interview today...

[Smarmie Doofus]

... with the father of Ryan Halligan, middle schooler who killed himself in Vermont in 2003? Seems Ryan was gay-baited mercilessly and picked on for other , shall we say, differences ( e.g LDs) as well.

Here's a link to a Frontline episode that aired earlier dealing with this sickening shit:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kidsonline/interviews/halligan.html

Question: the school appears to have been aware of the bullying in general and the gay-bashing part, specifically . And ... naturally... failed to intervene. So do the schools have a responsibility to teach 1. tolerance for all innate differences and 2. tolerance ( minimally) and appreciation ( preferably) for homosexual people?

In other words... I think there should be a "no tolerance" policy toward violence, threats and intimidation ( even the *hint* of intimidation) toward kids who are perceived to be gay in public schools. And I think districts who fail to deal with the problem should be held legally responsible for the consequences of said failure: such as murder by taunting and harrassment.

Discuss.

[NYC_SKP]

1. "Absence of Threat"

Any school that doesn't understand Maslow's Heirarchy and enforce issues of basic safety should be investigated and possibly closed.

There's no way a student can learn under conditions of fear, and teachers and administrators must maintain the "Absence of Threat" more importantly than anything else (after basic physical things, water, air, and food).

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. That would be *all* of them, seems to me.

>>>>>Any school that doesn't understand Maslow's Heirarchy and enforce issues of basic safety should be investigated and possibly closed.>>>>>>>


Esecially as regards this particular issue: harrasssment of kids who are perceived to be gay. It seems far fetched to expect that school districts will take it upon themselves to attack this issue head on *unless*.... and UNTIL the law is changed ( preferably federally) to assign civil and perhaps *criminal* responsibility where it belongs ( to people running the schools) for consistently failing to protect kids like this.

If that doesn't come about in the very near future (for the MOMENT we have a DEM Pres with huge DEM legislative majorities), it will not come about in my.... and probably your ... lifetime.

Result: many more Ryan Halligans to come. About which we do NOTHING.

[wtbymark]

2. Essex is right on the edge of the Burlington ditrict

Vermont schools/education actually have an excellent reputation, in both report and interaction with its student body. I lived less than 15 miles away at that time and this is the first I've heard of it (now I live in Nevada) I thought I was up on everything when I lived there, but I could have been in a coma er somethin' - anyhow, Essex, Burlington, Rutland, St. Albans schools are 'unique' Vermont school districts as in they are 'urban social' settings compared to every other school in the state. IMO, the teachers/admins of these schools (not to say generally) are socially Ill equipped to deal with those situations. My shoot from the hip analysis (purely opinion) is that they're not 'hip' enough to see it, not adept enough to deal with it and no day to day widely shared educator experience in similar matters. In Vermont, if you were bullied, you either found a way to neutralize the bully (kick their ass) or delt.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. Vermont's one of my fave states and this happened 6 yrs ago.

But you and I and the rest of the country are truly in a "coma" ( where it comes to this issue ) if we think that this is not a problem EVERYWHERE .


>>>>IMO, the teachers/admins of these schools (not to say generally) are socially Ill equipped to deal with those situations. My shoot from the hip analysis (purely opinion) is that they're not 'hip' enough to see it, not adept enough to deal with it and no day to day widely shared educator experience in similar matters.>>>>

I don't believe this. How "socially equipped" does a teacher have to be to tell a serial homophobic harrasser that 1. there's nothing morally wrong or scientifically unnatural about being "gay". 2. Other kids have the right to go to public school without being harrassed thusly and , consequently, YOU, ( i.e. serial harraser) are on suspension.


>>>In Vermont, if you were bullied, you either found a way to neutralize the bully (kick their ass) or delt. >>>>

Right. In the Kuby interview, the father said he GAVE the kid self-defense lessons and the kid pounded the bleep out of a harrasser ( I think this is in the PBS interview as well.) Ryan ended up killing himself anyway. Real life is always more complicated than that.

Besides... not every kid is *able* to exact that kind of retribution ... for either for physical or psychological reasons. Should we just let *those* kids kill themselves?

( I know you're not suggesting that; I'm being rhetorical. But you see my point.)

[southerncrone]

5. Most of the bullying goes on out of sight of teachers & admin.

Think about it. Kids are sneaky, they know not to do this within ear-shot or in view of authority figures. The ratio of kids to staff in my school is about 20:1. We cannot be everywhere & see everything.

Even if a teacher sends someone to the office for bullying, it is then out of their hands. The administration will "deal with it" however THEY choose.

If this can happen in VT, a very liberal state, just imagine what happens here in The South? :(

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Perhaps. But that's not my sense of it.

I think most teachers are not comfortable with the issue and do not want to intervene 'cause: 1. they don't think that kids hassling other kids for not conforming to gender norms is such a bad thing and/or 2. they ( the teachers) don't want to come under suspicion for being gay themselves... or even being sympathetic to gays.

"Gay" being thrown around as an epithet is not suomething that a teacher in any region of the USA can legitimately claim to have never heard, imo. Is that always "harassment"? Perhaps not. But allowing that to go unchallenged erects the necessary foundation for harassment.

[southerncrone]

7. I can only speak from my perspective.

I do not tolerate this behavior, but I have not seen it. I suspect kids are wise to around WHOM they can get away with doing it. Perhaps they KNOW I won't tolerate it. I also tend to be a rule-enforcer, so there you go. I suspect I could pick out which teachers would "look the other way", so kids probably can, too.

A problem I do see is the word "gay" being used to describe ANYTHING that kids don't like. Those who are around kids the last few years will know what I mean.
For example:
Student 1: "I got ___________ (some type of product, could be a brand of shampoo or deodorant, even) yesterday."

Student 2: "That's gay!"


The word has nothing to do with sexual orientation, but is used to express a personal disapproval of whatever the other kid says. The sheer number of times the word "gay" is used in schools everyday is phenomenal. This makes it even more difficult to determine when the REAL BULLYING in taking place.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. "The sheer number of times the word "gay" is used in schools

everyday is phenomenal."

Indeed... that's my point.



"A problem I do see is the word "gay" being used to describe ANYTHING that kids don't like. "

There are reasons for this. This type of attitude is *learned*.




We are talking about *schools*. It seems to me that the ball is in OUR court.