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Kath1 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 07:53 PM
Original message
Family Discussions On Choice - Not Good?
I got to thinking about this today because of a family get-together. Years ago (1983?), I went to my parents' house for Thanksgiving. I had the popular "Pro-Women, Pro-Child, Pro-Choice" bumper sticker on my car and thought nothing of it. Another relative there asked "who has that sticker" during dinner and they all actually went out and looked at my car! My parents were and are very conservative Catholics and told me right on the spot that they were embarrassed by me. They were angry and couldn't let it go and I finally stormed out during dinner after a lot of yelling. I didn't speak to them for a long time. I felt like I was having a flashback to when I was sixteen and they found out I smoked. I love my family. They are elderly. I care for them but we don't ever discuss politics. Anyone else had similar horrific/miserable experiences?
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Years ago, when I was in College my mother-in-law ...
from another part of the Country was visiting at our SoCal home.
As we drove down the freeway, I pointed to the beautiful Coastal Mountains and commented on
how a certain formation was caused by uplift hundreds of thousand of years before.
She promptly replied that she believed the Earth was 7,000 years old.

I didn't roll my eyes, holler that she was wrong or challenge her. We both just smiled and went on
down the road.
I felt so grown up at that moment. I could be strong in my knowledge and let someone else have their belief.


Tikki
PS she was an awesome person...
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Kath1 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks.
Thanks, Tikki.
I'll bet she was an awesome person and you were smart to just let it slide. Some things are just more important than being right.
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brooklyn297 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. very interesting
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. welcome back. goodbye. eom
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. My parents and I kept a stony silence on politics and religion for years
after quite a few blowups. I took the geographical cure and found out we got along much better when I was 1000 miles away and could hang up on them when they misbehaved.

Since I did hang up a couple of times after setting firm limits, they behaved with only a mercifully brief lapse when Lamebawl had his short lived TV show. I visited while they were under the spell and if they started to rant, I'd just walk out. I'd go back later and inquire sweetly "Are you all done now?" They got the point in record time and their infatuation with Fatso was brief.

Yes, there are times I felt like a meanie, but I realized a long time ago that I could be a (rhetorical) punching bag only if I participated in it.

My parents are gone now and I miss them. We were able to keep contact only by avoiding two very sore subjects.
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Kath1 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks
My parents are retired and have Fox News on all day. I've set limits also and politics and religion are subjects we don't go near. They know I am very liberal and have serious problems with the Catholic Curch when it comes to women and reproductive rights. I used to try to get them to see my point of view but I failed and it usually caused a blowup. Now we just agree to disagree and leave those subjects alone.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. My folks could be your folks
The funny part is that they both died unbelievers. My mother's epiphany came when she finally sat down and read the bible cover to cover. Needless to say she was furious when she found out what was in there besides the feel good crap the church had been peddling along with the misinterpretation of Jesus and the elevation of Paul. I never did find out what caused my dad to discard the whole business, I wasn't going to grill him about it on his death bed.

Just let them be. You never know.
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vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe a discussion of Legal Abortion makes sense ?
There's the old Keep It Simple Stupid concept.

"Why should we have legal abortion ?" is a simple question. Anybody can talk about it.

But as soon as you use the word "choice," you walk into anti-legal-abortion rightie-fundie Ad Biz propaganda. The anti folks hit you with this: "Choice is the opposite of necessity." They hammer the word "choice" over and over. It's like Reagan hammering "librul."

When "Ms." magazine started using "Pro-Choice" in 1975 they were not worried about conservative backlash. They had no idea that the choice-versus-necessity meme would get rolling. "Ms." had no idea what would still be in play 36 years later.

They had no idea that "A Child Is Not A Choice" would pop up in 1978 and be echoed 24/7/365 ever since.

"Legal abortion" works fine. You can talk about it with almost anybody.

Btw: We're doing linguistic research on the voter pool that self-identify as consistent Republican voters. The list we are using has a substantial number of willing participants. As a key to how they see the world, these Americans use "unborn child" as their preferred term. They never use "fetus."

Want to get some more votes from these folks for Democrats ? That might be possible.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Will you please visit this topic? What is Choice.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

If Choice is uses as "ability to chose a safe legal hygienic abortion rather than a back ally one", as I and others do, then it is necessity. It is legal abortion. Please let us know the result of your research, could be interesting. Defining terms is necessary since they can be so different, yet each person feeling their definition is not just "the right one" but "the only one".

Too often "choice" is used as a term meaning choosing when or if to get pregnant, expanded out to include contraception. Seems those sorts are the ones who say sex is meant for procreation, not pleasure. I want to ask them if they ever have sex for fun, or if people who are too old to procreate should be allowed to have sex, or if it is immoral.
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