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Help debunking an email - Saline abortion survivor....

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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:16 PM
Original message
Help debunking an email - Saline abortion survivor....
Apparently, there are people who claim to be abortion survivors, and as such, they go around the country and talk at churches to raise money for the forced-birthers. My grandmother heard this girl talking and emailed me about it, saying that she had changed her mind and wasn't going to vote at all anymore, because the rethuglicans kill people when they're adults and the democrats kill people when they're unborn. (At least she's not voting...*sigh*)

So anyway, the text from my grandmother is -

Gina's mother decided to have an abortion in her 7th month in 1977, and Gina was miraculously born alive, having survived the saline. She has cerebal palsy, but 29 years later, she barely limps and you'd never know she had it unless she told you. She wasn't supposed to live to see her first birthday, much less her 29th.

I googled this, but apparently, there's no proof other than this person's statement.

This just sounds like such utter bullshit, but I can't find anything to refute it. Unfortunately, I don't know much about post-legalization abortion history and statistics. (Pre-legalization, I know more than I want to know.)
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. I smell Fraud....
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. An old story
Since I go so far back in the abortion wars, I can tell you that I used to hear about "saline" babies back in the 80s and early 90s. There weren't a lot, a few every now and again. There would be a fuss and then everything would die down. And no, you can't verify their stories. I never thought they rang true myself.

An old tactic of the fundies.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. It may be "Gianna"
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I know the people who run that site...
I went to high school with their children (who still live at home and "work" for mumsy and daddums... almost 15 years later). They have drunk so much koolaid that their eyes have turned red.

Not a reliable source, unfortunately. And her story stinks WORSE now that I've read that.

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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-16-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Aye - I perceived as much as I looked at the site.
Some people have far too much time on their hands.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. There's this site with "survivor" photos
But have no idea of the site's credibility

http://members.tripod.com/~joseromia/survivors.html

And here's the Google search with lots of sites, but it appears they ALL are fundie related and/or pro-life group sites that have many bad links within them, such as Error 404 Not Found:

http://tinyurl.com/rqhg2
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I'm taking it with a pound of salt
because such late abortions are generally called premature births. The only true late abortion I've ever seen was when an anencephalic fetus was discovered in a very young mother who had throught if she didn't talk about her pregnancy it would just go away and didn't get care until she was obviously showing. If a fetus is viable, it is preserved. Nobody "kills babies" in the manner that any of these hysterical stories suggest.

Doctors do everything they can to preserve life if the fetus is 24 weeks or later, pretty much the lower limit of viability.

In 25 years of nursing, some of it in trauma units and oncology units where the mothers were too sick or injured to maintain a pregnancy, any "abortion" after the 24th week was actually a premature delivery.

The only one I could buy at all was the early abortion that missed an embryo. I could see that happening in the case of fraternal twins. I can also see a woman who ignored the advice of the clinic and became pregnant again almost immediately. That's not out of the question, either.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. if she's only 29 there would be medical records, if she can't or
won't prove it she's lying.IMO
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. counter with this story
I went to high school with 2 sisters who were repeatedly raped and abuse by their father. Both girls became pregnant and had these kids.

Both kids were SEVERELY retarded - one was born without any defined sex organs.

These girls lived hell on earth and were abused after the babies were born because they were so disabled. Long story on this whole situation which I won't get into here.

Anyone who says abortion is NOT a private matter for the woman is just plain cruel. There are plenty of instances why girls should be able to get an abortion without a parent's knowledge etc because of crap like this.


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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. In CA, Prop 73 would have required parental notification if it had passed.
Thankfully, it failed. When I spoke with people about it, my answer was simple.

Do you want your daughter to tell you of she gets pregnant? Then don't rape, abuse or neglect her. You shouldn't have a problem.

That simple logic turned some people around who had never thought of it that way before.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-16-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. The story I told was how I argued that prop with my anti choice family
not all of my family is anti-choice but those hard core Catholic ones that are got this story. They did admit they saw my point but it still bothered them.

Thankfully, they still vote Dem because they aren't one issue voters.
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Extend a Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wiki is trying to decide whether or not to delete it...
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard.
He said that most criminals are the result of botched abortions.
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kcass1954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Were they doing saline in 77? Was this a legal or illegal abortion?
Just asking, because I really don't know. I had an abortion in S. Florida in late 77, and it wasn't saline.

The whole story sounds like crap to me.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. the woman had an abortion at 7 months? unless her life were in danger
or there was serious risk to the fetus, NO doctor would have touched her. if this story is legit, one would think the doctor or the woman who, obviously unwillingly, gave birth, would have said something.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Exactly.
The claimant appears to have some sort of contact with her biological mother, but since she's not talking....

I smell hoax. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I'm getting a whiff of attention hound here.
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. They just make up shit when they have nothing else.
Democracy requires an informed population. If people believe this shit, then it's clear- democracy can't thrive here any longer.
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Eileen Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-16-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thia old chestnut AGAIN!
If they were actually interested in facts instead of disseminating propaganda from the Anti Abortion Propaganda Industry (AAPI) then the information presented in - This response - to an earlier poster concerning the old, and discarded, Saline abortion method should be familiar to them.

As for the Gianna Jessen fable/claim (again):

She parlayed her premature birth and the resulting cerebral palsey into a speaking tour promotong "born againism" and anti abortion propaganda. She made a career (organized and promoted by her adoptive mother/manager) as a speaker against abortion and for sexual purity (and of course for becoming a born-again 'Christian'). I've no doubt the campaign was orchestrated by her adoptive 'mother' who thought nothing of displaying this young person in childhood much as "freaks" were displayed in carnivals once. She (Gianna) tried a gospel singing career for a while but hasn't been very prominent latly.

As I said, her cerebral palsy is the result of her premature birth at 32 or 33 weeks or so (according to her). However there is no evidence, and never has been any presented for inspection, that she was born as the result of her mother's attempt to procure an abortion - saline or otherwise. Heasay and unsupported fables from professional liars does not count as evidence.

The answer to your email writer is "provided the documented evidence or STFU".

- Eileen`s always in process page -


Eileen
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ianna_kur Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-17-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. eeewwwww. ...but I really like the 1st amendment
Wow! I'm not sure if it is the same woman (the age is about right), but I'm fairly certain that when I was in either Junior High or High School I had to sit and listen to her exact brand of drivel. Her story struck me as false then, as it does now. I remember that the "presentation" had more to do with connecting anti-choice with being a born again Christian than with anything else. Her presentation was very teary-eyed, and the whole "don't question me. If you do you're a mean person because I'm a victim" approach to it. The anti-choice message was interwoven with a born-again message, and this was in a public school. Blegh. There is no way that this person's story is true.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-23-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. What a bunch of bullshit. Ask any medical doctor, this is not even
medically possible. Preferably an OB-GYN. Duh.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I did check with my doctor when I was in, but
as she has never performed a saline abortion, (apparently they haven't been done in about 20 years) she really didn't know. She said the story sounded far fetched, but couldn't confirm or deny.

It sounded like bullshit to me, but what do I know? I'm just a shrink.
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