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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 09:22 PM
Original message
Michelle Wie and Danica Patrick
Are either Michelle Wie or Danica Patrick, mainly Michelle Wie bad for women's sports? For Michelle Wie she plays in the PGA events, but never makes the cut and has never won a women's event. I was pretty happy that Annika Sorentam tried the PGA, but I think that was because she dominated the women's game and it seemed okay that she would try to play in at least just one PGA event. Every time Wie plays in a men's event and does not make cut I really get upset. I guess I just worry that their will be a backlash against women's if Wie keeps getting into the men's events and does not make the cut.

For Patrick I guess I just worry about her not winning an IRL event. I am a very big supporter of women's sports and I consider myself a defender of women's sports. I guess with these women I just wonder if their losing hurts women's chances of getting respect and having chances in the future.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. I still think they bring positive attention
I don't think most people expect them to win against males. Annika's PGA turn was really an interesting event--I thought she would make the cut, but wasn't crushed that she didn't. Lots of golfers on a given week don't make the cut.

I know less about Patrick and IRL, but I assume that she's not the only young racer not to have won a race. As for Wie, she's still incredibly young. Her attempt to qualify for the U.S. Open this year garnered a great deal of attention and was heavily featured on ESPN while she was still on the course. Granted, she didn't make it, but I think the interest in her helped to spur interest in the Women's U.S. Open, which followed a few weeks after and had great drama in the final round. Wie will win eventually on the women's tour, and will likely eventually make the cut in a men's event as well. She came fairly close to qualifying for the u.s. open this year, and she's still not old enough to vote :)

I wouldn't worry about their impact too much. Personally, I think it's positive.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree
Michelle Wie has been getting tons of press for 2+ years and she's only 16. It's strange she has so many close finishes without winning, but it's not like she has been choking away the lead. Plenty of 2nd and 3rd place finishes within a few shots. No doubt she's inspired many young girls to take up the sport.

Eventually Wie will make the cut in a men's tournament and doing so will more than overcome any of the whispered questions. She has the length off the tee and the arch in her swing to semi-compete with the men, unlike Sorenstam or anyone else on the LPGA tour.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. she doesn't really have the length
actually. when you look at the numbers. He career driving average is about 288, which wouldn't crack the top 100 on the Men's tour. will she be good enough to make a living on the PGA tour? probably. will she dominate it? unlikely.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I don't think she'll ever play on the PGA tour regularly
Her length is excellent for a woman and should only get better as she gets stronger. But Wie will never threaten the male bombers. A couple of events a year, maybe more once she makes the cut and gets further invites.

Yeah, those driving distances are incredible. I started using stats to wager on golf matchups in 2000. At that point, 288 was very high on the list. The average has risen 20+ yards in six years.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. she could actually make some good money on the tour
certainly she could have a chance to win the odd low ranking tournament, the ones that are basically up for grabs for the second and third echelon of players. (who were the top ten at the John Deere again?) but she'd be in a struggle to keep her card some years, I'm sure. it's still not a bad living.

on the other hand, she could, conceivably, dominate the LPGA for a spell. or she could flame out at 18 and decide to bank all her cash and quit. who knows? most prodigies who turn pro at that early of an age, and get whipped on for a while, crash and burn (how is that Jennifer Capriati doing these days?)
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. They're both GREAT for their respective sports, and womens' sports
in general.

The publicity they bring to their sports is one thing, the fact that they can have a "Tiger Woods" effect on their sports is a bonus. i.e. a generation of young girls may now follow auto racing more closely, while a generation of young Asian girls may follow golf more closely. Both are good for their sports.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Patrick is an excellent driver. She's got the numbers.
Even Richard Petty said she was extremely talented.

She'll get a win some day.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wie is dominant at such a young age. Look...
at her performance in the last several majors. She will be an unreal talent when she is say...18.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. 16 year old girls compete with adult women in tennis at 18 at no dis-
advantage. And tennis is a much more physical game than golf. In golf, physical maturity beyond 16 won't mean that much.

Wie needs to learn how to win, which is different from playing well.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. you'll get no argument...
from me re. physical demands of golf. physical maturity does make a difference. she will get physically stronger and her stroke right now is better than anyone in womens golf. short game refinement will push her to legend status.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It doesn't make that much a difference in women's sports....
hence, why so many 'girls' play 'women' and win.

I'd like to see Wie do well. But I'd like to see her actually win something.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. DING DING DING! MookieWilson, you're our grand prize winner!
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 03:57 PM by rocknation
Wie needs to learn how to win, which is different from playing well.

Dead on, Mookie! Wie knows how to play, but she's shown me that she has a lot to learn about competing, never mind winning. At the age of 16, she's only physically mature, but she's blessed with time to "grow into" the job of champion. She should be investing her youth in learning how to dominate the LPGA just like Annkia did, not trying to become an overnight sensation on the men's tour. It's called pacing yourself, Michelle--learn how to walk, THEN learn how to run.

:headbang:
rocknation
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mduffy31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think Wie is the most overrated athlete
I wouldn't get so annoyed whenever there is a story about her if she had won something on the LPGA before trying to show that she could play with the "boys." At least with Sorenstam she had a track record of being the most dominate female golfer, so it made sense for her to take a shot.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. why does she have to win against the women
before playing the men? sure, it might be a good career move, but if she can get a spot on the PGA tour, what's the problem with it? or do you think the PGA should be limited to men, and only the best women? it is open to any member of the PGA, not sex specific (unlike the LPGA) if you can get on tour, why not?
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a kennedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. I heard that Danica might be driving for NASCAR soon.....
Heard just a blip on some sport talk show.....one guy said Indy car racing is like the CFL and NASCAR is like the NFL of racing and that she's going to be jumping into the big money game of NASCAR.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. She nixed going NASCAR any time soon a few days ago.
She finished first among Rahal/Letterman's three drivers in the race.

She's actually doing pretty well. It doesn't make her another crossover guy like A.J. Foyt, but who knows?
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. She expertly neither confirmed nor denied it on ESPN yesterday
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 04:12 PM by rocknation
Unlike Michelle Wie, Danica HAS proven that she can compete successfully and consistently with the men. Though I would like to see her win an IRL event before she starts talking NASCAR, I would be in favor of the move because it will have been something she achieved.

:applause:
rocknation
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ridgerunner Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. I don't see Michelle Wie doing anything wrong
Right now, she can only play in 8 LPGA tournaments, so going out and shooting against the men can only improve her confidence and her game. The only way to get better is to keep playing and that's all she is doing.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. She should be in high school. Even Tiger Woods went to high school...
and a couple of years of college.

She's got a lot of talent and it's not going anywhere. Don't forget to live life.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I Too, Am Worried About Burn-Out
I notice how the Williams sisters simply dropped from view for a while. I think it cleared their heads, made them WANT to play tennis again, and they have looks of joy on their faces when they're playing now. I saw Venus at Wimbledon, and saw Serena highlights of this week's event. They look like they're having fun again.

I hope Michelle can learn something from that.
The Professor
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Michelle Wie's handlers seem to be....
...whistling past the graveyard of teen burnout cases from tennis and other sports. They're acting as though Michelle is going to turn into a pumpkin when she turns 18. What's the big rush of trying to play on the men's tour when she isn't winning on the ladies' tour yet?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Girls compete at the women's level years earlier, so they burn out earlier
With men's tennis, this process is delayed a few years since 15 year old boys have a harder time playing, let alone winning, against men.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. er, money?
it is professional sports, that means you play for pay. and the money from the sponsors is there now, so you strike when the iron is hot. I don't think that playing 6 men's tournaments a year is going to cause too much burnout. maybe frustration, maybe anger at not winning, but honestly, if she was on the youth circuit, she'd be playing a lot more, and flying coach. maybe she should 'learn how to win' but frankly, she's doing ok for herself right now, isn't she? she may not be competative on the men's tour, but she sure is on the women's, and if she wants to play PGA tournaments, and someone is willing to give her an exemption, really, what's the harm in it?
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. Big Time Sports Is 90% Marketing
They are doing their jobs in promoting their own venues. Quite nicely, in fact.
The Professor
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. The difference between Annika and Michelle is that Annika paid her dues
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 04:00 PM by rocknation
and has proven herself to the point that the PGA couldn't ignore her any longer. Michelle, despite her obvious raw talent, has not been able to deliver on her PGA invites to the point that they've become attempts at media attention. If she keeps blowing her PGA invites, it will be only a matter of time until she ailenates her fellow (if you'll pardon the expression) women golfers, too. Michelle's youth is her greatest asset, and she should be investing it in becoming the NEXT Annika Sorenstan, at which time she'll be rewarded with all the fame, fortune, and PGA invites she wants. Right now, she's on the fast track to becoming the next Anna Kornukovia.

:headbang:
rocknation
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