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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:30 AM
Original message
Church fires teacher for being female
Once again, religion is used to further bigotry.

WATERTOWN, N.Y. - The minister of a church that dismissed a female Sunday School teacher after adopting what it called a literal interpretation of the Bible says a woman can perform any job outside of the church.

The First Baptist Church dismissed Mary Lambert on Aug. 9 with a letter explaining that the church had adopted an interpretation that prohibits women from teaching men. She had taught there for 54 years.

The letter quoted the first epistle to Timothy: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."


The story continues at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060821/ap_on_re_us/sunday_...

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think the PREACHER ought to be silent...
Heartless bastard. The light of God isn't anywhere to be found in him.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Welllll, it looks like the muslims are managing to spread THEIR
beliefs hereeasier than the Christians are able to spread theirs in the muslim world!

That's seems to be heading in the direction of "putting womanback in their place...one step behind men" to me!!!
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. say that again?
Are you saying that if an American church is sexist, it may be due to the influence of Muslim beliefs?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Well, yse, sort of. Aren't women considered less than and
subordinate to men in most Muslim religions?

The post says this Baptist Church USED to permit women to teach in their Chruch, and now they're reverting to the complete opposite phylosophy.

All I hear from the vocal Christians is that they want to go to the Middle East Contryies and spread Christianity, but that doesn't seem to be having much success.

It's a ChristianChurch that is changeing to an idea the muslims have in their religion.

I know they're not saying that, and claiming they're interpreting theBible literally,but you have to admit, the idea has more in common with the Mulsim religion than with other Christian ones.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes, just like they're considered subordinate in christianity.
"the idea has more in common with the Mulsim religion than with other Christian ones."

No, actually, it's based on the christian bible, where do you think "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." came from, the quran?

Do some research, christianity has been used to dominate and oppress women for centuries, the muslims aren't spreading misogyny, the christians are just rediscovering their own brand of it.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Churches are completely voluntary.
They can do what they please and so can their members. She don't have to be in that church if she doesn't want to be.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Does that make it any less bigoted?
Especially considering that she had been teaching there for 53 years before being sacked.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Would you say the same if it was race discrimination?
Bigoty in the workplace is wrong regardless of who is signing the checks.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Reply to less bigoted and race.
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:20 AM by fjc
No, it does not make it less bigoted. But there's nothing whatever the government can or should do about it. And yes, I would say the same thing if it were racial. I don't have to like it, but I like less the idea of government interfering with churches.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I agree with you, but...
People who hold such beliefs or who are raised to hold such beliefs are a very large threat to society: witness the growing rage among many Muslim communities in the western world over not being allowed to put Sharia over secular law. The only difference between that and the situation I posted on above is that, in this country, Christians are already in power and there is little to stop them from eliminating civil law and replacing it with religious law.

I know that it is a logical fallacy, but I deeply fear the slippery slope. First it is in the churches, next it is in the businesses that the church members own, then it is in the schools where church members get elected to the school boards.... We have seen this happening in spades over the last two decades. At what point can we stand up and tell these people, "You are ignorant bigots using theology to spread your hate, and we won't take it any more!"?
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I understand your concern, but
if you're objecting to churches of this kind violating the disestablishment clause, be careful not to advocate the same thing in order to prevent the very thing you're objecting to.
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. I always quote that verse to people who say the bible isn't sexist.
Really puts the book into perspective for you.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
So. If a literal interpretation of the bible is what they've "adopted," then where do you stop? Are blasphemers to be scourged and crucified? Are adulterers to be stoned to DEATH? Are thieves to have their hands chopped off? And liars have their tongues cut out? Does the good bastard, er.. pastor touch his wife when she's menstruating? That's a no-no too. Where, where, oh where do you stop?

And of course this stupid bastard's logic is just twisted. So can he accept being ticketed by a female cop? Or searched and handcuffed by a woman police officer? Held at gunpoint by a woman detective? Told he's failed his math test by a female teacher? Have his STD's tested by a female lab tech? Have a female nurse stick a thermometer up his ass?

But once a woman steps through the doors of the MAGIC church and all of a sudden she's a non-entity? How long must the idiocy go on? Will someone please pull back the curtain? Toto! Toto! Where the hell are you when we need you!?!?!?!?


I give up, I give up, I give up.....
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Didn't you realize where the fundies want to take us?
Back to the good old days when women were enslaved to hubby, women were kept from education, as well as the poor. After all, only the rich elitists are smart enough to be able to be educated. Think not? Whats behind the pukes backing of private schools at the expense of public education? Get rid of public education leaving only private pay schools and once the public schools are gone, raise the prices of a private education to farther limit the poors and lower working class chances of educating their kids. I'm waiting for the day when private schools start turning away female students under the pretense of being a one sex school. Maybe set up a private school for females only, that teaches females the important stuff, cooking, cleaning and child rearing.Welcome to the brave new world of the 22nd century, the same as the 10th century except for the auto's and flying machines, well the rich can't live without their luxuries, just make it so expensive only the elite can afford,just think no traffic jams.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. mrcheerful, wherever the Fundies go, I ain't going!
Sorry but I'll move to a disappearing island (global warming) in the Pacific first. Or maybe Antarctica. Is should nice and comfy pretty soon.

But I hear ya. Mmmmm, no traffic jams ya say????? :sarcasm:


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bumblebee1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Will this same pastor have trouble
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 10:45 AM by bumblebee1
being waited on by a waitress?

being waited on by a female cashier?

dealing with a female teller in his bank?

being taken care of by a female nurse whenever he is hospitalized?

with his flight safety in the hands of a female flight attendant?
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. As long as they are not teaching Holy Dogma (TM), all is well
Waitress, cashier, teller or nurse aren't exactly positions of "having authority over." Teacher, supervisor or elected official, on the other hand....
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. bumblebee1...
...from all indications he doesn't seem to have a problem with women "waiting" on him. He just doesn't want to have them talking and explaining things to other menfolk like she has a brain of her own.

Of course one must wonder how his "literal interpretation" of the bible is reflected in his role as a city councilman. And one must also wonder if she'll stay at that church now that she's been designated as incompetent to teach....


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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. I guess they thought her character was suspect
because she'd never been accused of molesting little boys.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. All that's left to do is put them women in burkas. n/t
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Burkas would only be a start
There is a return of the chastity belt to consider, and whether female genital mutilations should become common practice, and whether the Bible permits divorce when a woman has grown old and is no longer able to bear children.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. On its face, it sucks, but...
what were the "other issues" mentioned in the story?

If she's taught for 54 years, she's probably in her 70s and this could be a cover for getting rid of her because of age related problems.

It still sucks as a reason, though.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. A cover for age related problems?
I'd have thought they be able to get rid of her much more easily by saying "we think you're a bit old for this now" than "we hate women" "women aren't allowed to be in authority in a church". They'd get much less opposition if they said age was the reason.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Beats me. I'm just guessing because...
the article said there were other problems with her the church didn't want to identify. They might have thought this was the way to get rid of her with the least chance of a lawsuit.

The whole thing just doesn't make sense-- how do you run a school without women as teachers?



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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Oh yeah, and what "other issues"....
Other issues? Mmmmm, Well the only one I can think of is the fact that she taught there for 54 years!!! They should have been holding a ceremony in her honor!!!

Could it have been that she was TOO DAMNED OLD!!!! Mmmmm, might have lost a lot of parishioners for that one.

And by the way, what about all those men she lorded over for 54 years!?!?!? Should they be required to come in and be reeducated? De-toxed? Un-femalized? Sh*t. I'm sorry folks if I upset any Christians here, but this is just a load of bullsh*t. And to my mind, when other "Christians" sit back and allow this sort of thing to continue w/o saying a word, then they're just as guilty as this dumb bastard of a preacher. There. I said it.



I give up, I give up, I give up, I give up.....
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. c'mon -- keep on coming out into the open --
let everyone see the rotting and decaying corpse you people keep trying to pass off as life.

lets let everyone take a good long look -- and smell -- of your putrefying flesh.

let other christians SEE and FEEL how far the cancer has spread.

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Kickoutthejams23 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. I think the voters in New York should vote out this taliban baptist.
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 10:04 AM by Kickoutthejams23
He is a public official and he spewing this stone age shit. Fine let him and his fellow Muslims.. (oh excuse me he claims to be Christan) spew it in their little church. But we should shun those people with backwards and broken culture from public discourse.
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squarepants Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. What I can't figure out is
why she just now got fired? I mean, this was a CHURCH right? They read a BIBLE, right? What, did they just now figure out 53 years later paul was down on women? If that church felt that way, why hire a woman in the first place? Sheesh.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. Not only fired but slandered.
First off, I suspect that she was a volunteer; most Sunday School teachers in any denomination are not paid. The suggestion by the board that there were other reasons for her dismissal leaves her subject to all kinds of speculation. What was she doing that is so bad that no one can talk about it? The truth is probably that she was too liberal for a congregation fast moving to the right.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. How dare she!
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 03:09 PM by Donald Ian Rankin
I'm horrified that they only fired her, and didn't go further.

It's becoming ever-clearer that standards of behaviour in our society are falling. In my day, being female was punishable by imprisonment for the first offence, or execution for recidivists.

Nowadays you see young people walking the streets, openly and unashamedly being female without raising so much as a glance. It's disgraceful.

We should never forget that God created Adam, not Adam and Eve. If He had meant us to be female, he would never have given us the Y chomosome.

This country has been going to the dogs ever since they started using this "fire" stuff.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. Next time a fundie harangues me
I'll demand a weiner check. It would be un-Biblical of me to respect his authori-tah until I have positive proof "he" is dangling.

Actually, it looks like some posters upthread may be correct, the Biblical passage might just be cover for church infighting. Labouf was brought in 2 years ago to reenergize a dwindling membership and he and the old guard have been butting heads:

http://www.newzjunky.com/record/0820labouf.htm
http://wwnytv.net/72k/full-story.asp?uid=12074&area=hom...

Ms Lambert had been teaching adult school at 9:30 on Sundays. Check out the new Sunday School in the time slot, pitched to a younger demographic and purpose:
First Baptist is excited to announce the launch of a brand new Sunday school class called The Vine designed especially for young adults in their 20s and 30s. The Vine will meet each Sunday morning at 9:30 am downstairs across from the fellowship hall. The Vine is high impact focusing on issues relevant to young adults in the 21st Century. We encourage you to become part of the excitement, meet new friends and grow to become the person God desires that you be.

http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. "weiner check"!
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 11:07 PM by beam me up scottie
:rofl:

Great research as always, charlie.

Too bad the jackasses couldn't just be honest with the teacher, instead, they poked a hornet's nest by resorting to using the good ol' fashioned wimmen hatin' how-to manual ma and pa were so fond of.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. She Should Leave That Church
and go somewhere else

that punk assed kid preacher ruining an 81 year old's happiness with his petty childish understanding of the world

Shame on him
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