Pope worried by global upsurge in anti-Semitism

[barb162]

Jan. 17, 2006 13:26 | Updated Jan. 17, 2006 13:48
Pope worried by global upsurge in anti-Semitism
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
VATICAN CITY

Pope Benedict XVI, meeting with Rome's chief rabbi Monday, expressed pain and worry over fresh outbreaks of anti-Semitism, and called on Jews and Christians to wage a united battle against hate.

Waves of anti-Semitic violence and vandalism have hit Europe in the past few years. Last week, worshippers in a Moscow synagogue were attacked by a man with a knife.

Benedict did not mention specific occurrences of anti-Semitism in his speech welcoming Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni to an audience at the Vatican. The rabbi led a delegation from Rome's Jewish community, one of the oldest in the world.

Benedict said that Jews and Christians have the responsibility to cooperate to promote justice, love and freedom.
snip


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1136361098408&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Occulus]

1. Hypocrite.

I can't say what I'd like to about former Hitler youth Ratzinger. The post would be too long.....

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

49. Packages?

What do you mean?

[barb162]

51. He was brought up in a anti-nazi family and basically was

pressured/forced to join the nazi youth movement from accounts I have read.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. Right. I read a lot of things in the mainstream media.

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Are you saying you possess information that says different?

[barb162]

68. Well, then maybe he was never in the Nazi Youth at all

Why bother to read anything in the MSM?

[Behind the Aegis]

70. It's the same tired meme.

Nothing is to be believed in the MSM unless it supports your agenda. :eyes:

I have never seen anything that says his participation was anything other than mandatory. It seems similar to the draft here during Vietnam, the only difference is that the Germans got sent to camps if they didn't go along, as opposed to being placed in jail or fleeing to Canada.

It will be interesting to see what proof is produced by the poster claiming the MSM has poisoned us on this person as well.

[barb162]

87. BTA

did anyone ever tell you you are cool? (Maybe we are supposed to despise all the people drafted during Vietnam too. From everything I have read this Pope was forced into the Hitler Youth. It's not like the nazis gave choices to people back then as we all too well know)

[barb162]

55. So do you think he is not looking to stop anti-semitism?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Betsy Ross]

5. EXCUSE ME!

Where do you get this fundie Jew business? Hope you get deleted by a mod for your hateful attack.

[ixion]

6. you prove my point perfectly

thanks! :hi:

[Betsy Ross]

10. What about the non-fundie Jews that are attacked every day?

Had a swastika spray painted on your car? Have a landlady stand outside your apartment hollering "dirty Jew?" Been thrown out of a coffee house because they didn't want your kind? Like it when kids pass you in the hall of your high school saying it should have been 12 million? I don't know a single Jew, religious or totally secular that cannot name multiple, verbal or otherwise.

[ixion]

14. here's the thing, I believe in Freedom of Religion

which doesn't mean free to chose something from the Judeo-Christian line, which is the unwritten rule applied in the US as far as the 'parameters' of this inaliable right go. What it really means is that if I want to be a Pagan, or a Buddhist or a Wiccan, or whatever, that I have the right to do that without fear of persecution, in theory.

However, in practice, this is not the case. Pagans have had their religion systematically defiled by this same pope who is talking about battling hatred. In my opinion, the Vatican is one of the greatest sources of fear and hatred on the planet, secondly only, perhaps, to Washington DC. These same sources claim to be battling evil, terror, hatred, all the while spreading far more than they alleviate. Frankly, I think statements like this from the Vatican are an agenda-laden joke, and have very little to do with actually reducing the amount of hatred in the world.

This is true of extremists of any stripe. One of the central tenants of Freedom and Liberty is the ability to make one's own life choices, without fear of persecution. Extremists don't see it that way.

All sorts of groups of people are persecuted by this so-called Church who claims the rights to 'battle against hatred', that will in fact only result in more hatred.

I have absolutely no problem with people who want to practice any religion or spiritual pursuit they choose. I do however, have a problem with those people telling me that their way is the only way.

[Coastie for Truth]

20. We are glad to have you

check and then and welcome aboard.

[ixion]

86. thanks!

glad to be onboard! :hi:

[barb162]

50. "...people are persecuted by this so-called Church"

Are you referring to present day or the sixteenth century. If you have a link to support persecution by the present day church I'd like to see it.

[ixion]

76. a link? try the dictionary

or better yet, go and tell your friends you've decided to convert to Wicca and join a coven.

You won't need a link, you'll be able to see it first hand.

Don't believe me?

Okay, here's a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2047823


This woman was fired from her job because her xian bosses didn't like her religion.

[barb162]

88. Why do you presume I don't know the meaning of the word and

need a dictionary. Are you also presuming that the people who fired the woman are Catholic or Jewish. Are the Pope and/ or the Rabbi in the story I posted responsible for the actions of the manager(s) of the bus company. If religious leaders preach love and reconciliation, are they responsible for the "flock" who choose not to follow the teachings? I can't tell from the story you posted what religion(s) the managers of the bus company might practice, let alone if they do practice their religion.

[ixion]

91. not the meaning of the word...

the systematic defiling of the pagan religion, e.g. using the iconography of Pan, God of the Harvest, to represent xian Satan. That's one of many, many examples.


As for the religion of those in the newspaper, while it doesn't mention specifically (therefore implied), I would be willing to wager that those who objected were fundamentalists. Whenever some self-righteous schmuck starts spouting 'moral values' or 'community standards' as a reason for ruining someone else's life, you can be fairly certain there a religious fundamentalist in the mix somewhere.

[Andromeda]

72. So, you think it's okay to be an anti-Semitic?

That's what your post implies. This post was not about freedom of religion. It is about attacking a particular ethnic group that happens to be Jewish.

The Pope's not trying to convert you into Catholicism or any other religion; he's just trying to make people aware that the roots of hate are still there and we all need to be alert to that.

Feel free to detest anybody you wish but just don't advocate their abuse or demise.

[ixion]

77. don't read information INTO my post

I never said I support anti-semitism. THAT IS PRECISELY MY POINT! I don't support ANY anti anything because everyone has the right to worship how they feel. What I find laughable and tragic is that the same people who spread hatred are now claiming a 'battle' against hatred, that the same people who INSIST that they're worldview is the only correct worldview, are now claiming to want to stop hatred, all the while doing everything in their power to spread it.

That's what I don't support.

[Colorado Blue]

21. Agreed. My nieces are now being hassled in high school.

I grew up being hassled, encountered it on the job, synagogues in my 'hood have been burned and vandalized and sprayed with swastikas.

[barb162]

56. Why that happened and is still happening shows the strength

of anti-semitic feelings. It's just amazing.

[brentspeak]

38. I don't know where you live

but I grew up in suburban NJ in the 1970's and 80's, where there's almost zero anti-semitism. One single time, I remember, in the sixth grade, some girl called another girl a "Jew", causing the Jewish girl to get really upset. But that was it - the sum total of anti-semitism I witnessed.

[Behind the Aegis]

40. If you were Jewish, your sum total would be VERY different.

[barb162]

52. That's an excellent point. I went to school with a fair % of black

kids and I thought there was no racism. Because, of course, I saw no racism. But then they would tell me stories of what happened when I wasn't around and there was definitely racism.

[Colorado Blue]

73. Friends who grew up in New York reported the same thing.

But I suspect once you're away from that region, the fun begins.

I grew up out west, my nieces are there. I've encountered plenty as an adult, in the south and in the midwest.

[Dorian Gray]

84. I grew up in Suburban Jersey, too...

Little Silver, which is right next to Red Bank. Our town was mostly Protestant, though there were a lot of Catholics, too. A handful of Jewish, and very few other minorities. My good friend (still to this day) was followed home one day by someone who taunted her with "The Nazis should have finished the job!" "Hitler was right to kill all the Jews!" And many other very hateful remarks.

She never told me about this incident until we were adults. I also thought that growing up in NJ Suburbia was peachy, only to learn that wasn't the case for my friend later in life. (There were 8 Jewish kids in our class out of 85, so the religious group was relatively well represented in our town... well, at least our grade.)

I do think that we may THINK that anti-Semitism doesn't exist when it actually surrounds us on a daily basis.

[JudyM]

39. Agreed. Jewish 'jokes' through high school, swastica sprayed on my dad's

car, countless incidents in my life. And we're as mainstream as you get. It ain't pretty, and it's not uncommon.

[Karenina]

7. Yes, Rebecca

there are fundie Jews, every bit as lunatic as fundie X-tians and Muslims. They're ALL BANANAS. I do believe you misinterpreted the post to which you replied. :hug:

Herr Pope is just pumping up da volume...

[LostinVA]

24. Some of them are truly whacko

I've heard some of the most hateful anti-gay shit come from the mouths of a "Fundamentalist" rabbi. Truly appalling and hateful, especially considering who wore pink triangles alongside yellow stars.

[demosincebirth]

11. These anti religious will run, even, liberal Christians off this board.

[ixion]

15. I'm not anti religious... that's precisely my point

you are free to worship however you would like, but just because I don't see it the same way you do, don't call me anti-religous, because it's incorrect.

[demosincebirth]

17. No comment. Written statements speak for themselves. eom

[megatherium]

32. Folks here need to know that some people are progressive and Christian.

In fact a careful reading of the scriptures leads many to conclude that Jesus preached a message of love and tolerance, extraordinary for his time. When Jesus was asked how do we get to heaven, he said to love God and to love your neighbor. When he was asked who our neighbors are, he told the parable of the good Samaritan who helped the beaten Jew. Now Samaritans were the local despised minority group in ancient Israel, and Jesus was saying they were his neighbors. If Jesus were here today, he would probably tell the parable of the good Muslim. Or the good Pagan or Free-Thinker. <grin>

[barb162]

53. that's a lovely point

extraordinary for his time: that's for sure!

[barb162]

89. My suspicion is that a lot of them did run off the boards back

when the previous Pope was dying and there were hundreds of threads on him and this new pope. Whether they ran into the arms of Bush, ? Some of the threads were getting very anti-catholic.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. are you proposing anti-Semitism should be ignored? n/t

[ixion]

16. no, I'm saying that semites aren't the only ones

being persecuted, and in fact there are sects of the religion who are persecuting others.

It seems to me that a good place for the Jewish religion, and for the Christian religion, and for the Muslim religion to start trying to eliminate hatred is within their own ranks, rather than in the ranks of others.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Perhaps...

...however, I think that calling for the fight against hate against Jews is as good a place to start as any. I wish the Vatican would look at its own treatment of gays and lesbians. Therefore, the call to halt the upsurge of rising anti-Semitism is not a call to just 'fundies,' but to all people who believe that discrimination against Jews is wrong.

[CatholicEdHead]

23. Vatican homosexual matter is scapegoating for internal problems

Since they are being set up to take the fall for the sex scandels. It disgusts me in every way possible. Though Rome is often far apart from the actual parishes in many parts of the country and world.

[barb162]

58. You're right

[megatherium]

30. As Jesus himself put it, don't try to take a speck out of someone eye

when you still have a beam in your own eye.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Somehow, I think Jesus would approve of this message...

...despite the "beam" in their collective eye.

[ixion]

78. perhaps, but would he approve of the messengers?

in my opinion, the institution of The Church is far and away removed from what Jesus was talking about.

[megatherium]

82. Absolutely, the hierarchy of the Church is often directly at odds with

what Jesus taught. It's the leadership that fights ordination of women and recognition of same-sex unions. It's the leadership that builds big organizations with magnificent buildings; that parades about in ornate costumes in elaborate rituals. And it's the leadership that makes terrible mistakes (such as moving child-offending priests from one parish to another) then seeks to cover this up by scapegoating gay people -- and hiring lawyers to offer confidential settlements to victims and otherwise pressure them to keep quiet.

But every mainline church and even some evangelical churches have people in the pews (or parish pastors or priests) who are working hard to follow Jesus; who are working for love, charity and justice. I think some of the most authentically spiritual experiences I've had was worshipping with a chapter of Dignity, the gay and lesbian Catholic dissident group.

[barb162]

54. And that sounds like what the Pope and Rabbi were doing

in this story

[ixion]

79. battle implies an outward movement

not inward.

They didn't say: "we're going to try and end hatred within the ranks of our followers", they said "battle hatred". This implies an outside (common) enemy.

You may be right, but I would bet the otherway, if history is any indication.

[superconnected]

26. I don't get the logic

of fundy jews(probably a gramatical mistake) and xians battling hate, equaling anyone who doesn't believe what they do is a "hater".

Obviously you put your own spin on that because it doesn't reason out.

The pope attempted to make a peace message. He brought up that Jews were a different religion than Catholicism when he named that they should work together to battle hate. He did not say they should go after all other religions and non-religions.

I'm glad the pope said what he did. Even if I don't agree with someone sometimes, when they say something intelligent, I can still agree.

I think his point is very intelligent. He just allowed for religious plurality. This is something fundies can't seem to do. BTW, most Fundies arent Catholic or Jewish.

[ixion]

80. religious plurality? hardly

only if you fit into their narrow parameters of religion.

Can you say Crusades? Can you say Inquisition? While the methods might have changed over the years, the sentiment has not. Fundamentalist religions despise those who do not believe what they believe, that is, they see them as 'haters', or 'sinners' or 'infidels', just like dissenters in the US are told that they 'hate' America, by the haters themselves, nonetheless.

Let me tell you that the only thing I hate is people telling me I'm a hater. I am a spiritual person, and a pacifist, and I really don't appreciate everyone calling me anti-semetic or bigoted simply because I point out the historical inconsistencies between these people and their actions.

Would I like to see less hate in the world? ABSOLUTELY. But right now, fundamentalist religions of all stripes appear to desire quite the opposite.

But you're correct, my subject line was mere abbreviated. I think that fundamentalist Jewish and Christian people (there, happy now?) claiming to want to 'battle hatred' is ludicrous, because they create more hatred with this than they alleviate.

The problem is that in their efforts to quell 'hatred', they will attempt to force their religions on people. And don't say they don't. It's the principle tenant of evangelism to preach to 'non-believers'.

This is what I mean. If you folks want to take care of hatred, why don't you deal with those in your own ranks who have nothing but loathing and contempt for people who see the world differently.

[lovuian]

3. And look at the Government s who are promoting it

take a good look...

[Zenlitened]

4. Yeah, it's distracting from the vatican campaign of gay-bashing.

How are we supposed to make gays "the new jews" if people keep giving jews all the attention?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[KittyWampus]

8. what about gay jews?

[Behind the Aegis]

13. we get it from both sides, and not in the good way. n/p

[barb162]

62. I believe he's trying and I am convinced he means well

to ALL Jews


http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=922
Benedict blasts anti-Semitism

Pope Benedict XVI denounced global anti-Semitism.

Pope Benedict XVI denounced global anti-Semitism.
“We cannot but denounce and fight hatred and incomprehension, injustice and violence that continue to sow concern into the souls of men and women of good faith,” Benedict said Monday during his first meeting with Rome’s chief rabbi, Riccardo Di Segni. “How can one not be hurt and worried by the renewed displays of anti-Semitism that sometimes appear?”

Benedict, who has vowed to pursue the interreligious dialogue championed by his predecessor, John Paul II, thanked God for saving Jews from past travails.

“The people of Israel have been freed on numerous occasions from the hands of their enemies and the hand of the Almighty has supported and guided them during centuries of anti-Semitism (and) in the dramatic time of the Shoah,” he said.

[Behind the Aegis]

65. I agree, in some respects.

I am pleased with the articles you have posted about his denouncements of anti-Semitism. Pope John Paul II said that Catholics should not hate or harm gays. I haven't seen anything from this Pope regarding that. As a matter of fact his first edict was decidedly anti-gay.

I am not expecting an overnight miracle, I see his declaration as a step in the right direction. Perhaps, one day, that call will also include homophobia, which is also on the rise in some places.

[barb162]

67. The previous pope was in the job for decades

and this one is so new at the job. He may surprise us. I think he will carry on the previous pope's views; I think he has said that much. Because of his age he knows he doesn't have that long in the job. However I don't know if he distinguishes that much between gays and pedophiles. I know that sounds beyond weird, but I have that suspicion. He should have made his comments about pedophiles instead of gays.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. Again, I agree.

There is a certain amount of "wait and see" that has to happen. Your observations about his inability to distinguish between gays and pedophiles may be true. He is not alone in that 'disability,' sadly.

All we have is hope.

[Goblinmonger]

81. Carrying on JPII's views isn't so hot either

JPII said, in the beginning of 05, that gay marriage was the greatest threat facing humanity. Ratzinger was JPII's buddy. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The new guy hates gays as much as the old guy. Ain't gonna change in the catholic church I'm afraid.

[applegrove]

9. Like it isn't the same thing as Christians feeling persecuted. I mean

it is not - Christians have not on the whole been persecuted in the west for 1500 years. But the source of this bout is likely the same. Israel doesn't' have all its shit in order. So it makes an easy target for the middle east. Was predictable that if the USA invaded & tried to remake the middle east - anti-semitism would go up.

We have to be discerning and not buy into the "hate Israel" stuff. I've seen some stuff lately which is really sad.

Neocons are just that - neocons. They are a narrow band of intellectuals who represent their own narrow view of the world. Why they came to us from the elite offshoots of a few professors. They are not a grassroots movement. They do not represent any grass roots - especially not anyone Jewish.

Let's be discerning. And fight the hate. And fight the slicing and dicing of the body politic.

Did anyone see the documentary on people's reaction to 9/11 at the site - in the weeks after? The investigative report had conservative muslims hang around pilgrimage sites surrounding the remains of the WTC. What it showed was many New Yorkers - running up to the people and ask if they were being treated alright - if they needed any help - if they were being left alone.

That is the judeo/christian/all-monotheistic tradition of humanity. You seek to understand when faced with fear. You fight terrorism as an adult: with might, empathy, intellect & discernment.

[Colorado Blue]

22. "Israel" was being persecuted for almost 2,000 years before

Eretz Israel was a state.

[applegrove]

27. That is why I pointed out that though going neocon had resulted

in wedges and fears on the part of christians - they didn't have a long tradition of being attacked in the West. There is a difference. Yes - there is quite a history of attacking. Which makes it all the harder to work through this bout.

Like I said. We need to be discerning about the information we read. I've read some stuff recently that is anti-Israel and just makes me want to vomit. I doubt very much big oil gives a flying fuck about Israel - they are corporations. We humans have to take back the agenda. Or things could go from bad to worse. And again - why would big oil be against WWIII? Look what they got out of WWI?

[Colorado Blue]

44. Gotcha. Thanks.

I have no idea why big oil would be against WWIII. Look at all the money that starts flying during wartime. Billions and billions went where in Iraq? Contracts to companies like Haliburton were being let to rebuild Iraq before it got bombed.

And look at all the money spent on weapons in Vietnam. It was unbelievable. It's a way, I think, for key industries to steal enormous amounts of money from the taxpayers. Otherwise, why have Vietnam? I can't figure out to this day why we ever got involved there, once it became apparent it was truly a bigtime civil war and not a minor dust-up. It also served as a way to funnel more and more money to certain key industrial players and I think it changed our economy forever.

The Middle East is a different story though. As you point out, that really is geopolitically and economically important in and of itself.

The only problem is, from the oil industry standpoint - and it's a big one - war hasn't worked so well in Iraq. People keep blowing up the pipelines. In Kuwait, people blew up the oil wells and they flamed and smoked and burned for months. What a waste and what a mess, environmentally.

So on the one hand, big oil has "won". Their prices and profits have gone way up. In a way, shortages work for them, war works for them.

But on the other hand, they haven't gotten nearly the production they wanted out of Iraq. And there's a limit to America's patience; I think a lot of people see this as an oil war, which it is.

I really think, big business needs to come up with a better strategy to keep their prices up, to say the least. And any strategy that results in death on the other end of the pipeline truly sucks.

[applegrove]

45. I don't think we can expect corporations to have human qualities.

They never die. They don't feel. Perhaps they are afraid of lefties. But - really - what does afraid mean? Afraid to be human and have some uncertainty in your life? In a crime victim that is normal. What on earth was the crime done to corporations? Other than the fact the world is changing and they have to meet it?

Don't think Iraq was just an oil war. Was a many-headed war. And the ones I didn't pick up on at the time was the need for neocons to set a precedent for "pre-emptive war". I fully expected it was one they actually wanted to win. The UN would have won it.

Don't know. Haven't got it all figured out quite yet. But slicing and dicing humanity has never worked. Just results in more wars. I'm sorry ever time I see groups played off against each other. It is one strange theory of democracy.

[applegrove]

48. I think I reread my post the second after I posted it and clarified.

Sorry. It was vague at first.

[Jim Sagle]

35. Outstandingly humane and intelligent post. Thank you.

[applegrove]

36. Tks

:blush:

[dave29]

19. ... and converts to Judaism

in a show of support

[applegrove]

28. 'Bout time!

[barb162]

61. Oh, can you imagine? n/t

[rucky]

74. he's already wearing his yarmulke. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

75. .

:shrug:

And, you mean what?

[rucky]

90. What do you mean "what do I mean?"?

[Deja Q]

25. How does Pope Benedict define 'justice', 'love', and 'freedom'?

I would love to know.

[saigon68]

37. He should check this out

http://www.mallofchrist.com/

[barb162]

63. just a thought...probably in a mystical way, similar to the last pope

[superconnected]

29. I like that he's recognizing plurality in religion.

I also like his message this time. Religious tolerance is a high accomplishment for a religious sect. I hope he continues in that direction.

[bemildred]

33. Col. Sanders worried by upsurge in anti-poultryism. nt

[barb162]

64. you bad

[UrbScotty]

41. Hey! Stop criticizing Pope Robertson III! (nt)

[auroraslight]

42. blech

the pope should be worried ~ geeze...

[madeline_con]

43. From the article...

"Last week, worshippers in a Moscow synagogue were attacked by a man with a knife."

"Benedict did not mention specific occurrences of anti-Semitism in his speech..."

IOW, he mumbled some stuff to make nice for the Rabbi's visit and could only come up with one guy who had a knife as an example of this "global" problem.

Shouldn't he be giving tons of gold back to indigenous people or something?

[jwirr]

46. Many in his church voted to support bushie who has

not been good for Israel. (Many see what bushie did as the fault of Israel.) They even threatened catholics if they dared to vote for Kerry. NOW they are suddenly waking up to the fact that the right wing fanatics they have been playing with not only do not care for catholics but only tolerate Israel because it is suppose to convert before the rapture. They sold out America when they threatened Kerry.

[Charlie Brown]

47. This from a former Hitler Youth

I dispise it when someone with such a blighted history seeks to lecture the world on morality.

As a wise man once said, before you remove the speck from your neighbor's eye, see to the log in your own.

[AlienGirl]

71. Perhaps his blighted history gives him a better perspective than most? nt

[Zenlitened]

85. It obviously does NOT, given his smearing, scapegoating assaults...

... on the gay community.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

57. Interesting comment coming from a former Nazi Youth member.

[barb162]

66. Yes, a real change of heart if one believes he was ever

an enthusiastic member of the Nazi Youth at age 14.

[WhollyHeretic]

83. "wage a united battle against hate" Maybe he should start with himself

and the other leaders of his church and get rid of the hatred against gays they spew.