How about a fun "holiday" game

[Goblinmonger]

Let's see how many "pagan/heathen" things we can identify in this picture.

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(The irony of this for Mr. O'Reilly and his ilk is that I found this picture on a public school web site.)

[SteppingRazor]

1. I count five...

The tree, the wreath, the Yule log, the stockings and the lighting of candles.

[salvorhardin]

2. Don't forget the presents

http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/christmas.asp


On edit: Doesn't the star atop the tree count too? Pentagram?

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. I don't think it has to be a pentagram

(I feel sure I've seen plenty of 4-pointed stars on Christmas trees), and a star is one of the few things that does feature in the biblical birth of Jesus, so I would say that isn't pagan/heathen.

And for that matter, presents are said to come from the Wise Men story too, aren't they?

[salvorhardin]

6. Stenae

As I understand it, on the last day of Saturnalia presents were exchanged which included stenae (lucky fruits), nuts, candles and small terra-cotta dolls. It does seem to be another tradition co-opted by Christianity.

As for the star, it was a generally magical symbol. That it should also be worked into the jesus myth is not surprising.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. Stockings?

I thougth that was a specifically Christian (though not biblical) custom - as part of the St. Nicholas legend about him throwing 3 bags of gold into a house so the 3 daughters could have a dowry rather than resorting to prostitution. Or is it another custom adapted from a non-Christian source (like, say, St. George rescuing a maiden from a dragon, rather like Perseus)?

[hunter]

5. Ah, those ancient days of Northern Europe.

The odds were great you were not going to survive the winter, and if you were starving you had to decide which one of your neighbors you would eat.

Then you heard about Jesus.

[salvorhardin]

7. Well, you could always sack and pillage a neighboring village

Or was that done mostly in the summer? :-)

[trotsky]

8. Sacking can be enjoyed year-round.

In winter it became "extreme" sacking. You definitely took a risk that the place you were going to sack actually had prepared well for the winter!

[salvorhardin]

9. The Visigoths seemed to make quite the career of it though

So obviously the sacking skills were highly developed at that point in time. Sad really. Yet another example of ancient knowledge lost. We moderns think we're so smart but we're not.

[Goblinmonger]

10. Here's a couple I think are probably pagan but need help with

1. that is either holly/ivy on the mantle or mistletoe. Both of those are pagan symbols for this time of year, correct?
2. the practice of ornaments on the tree just seems like it would predate JC.
3. bows?
4. those phalli in front of the fireplace sure as hell ain't christian

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. Here's some help

1) Holly and ivy are common, but any evergreenery will do. The symbol is one of green life in the otherwise bleak deadness of heavy winter. I believe that holly and ivy together is distinctly English, as it is only in southern Britain that both are green together in winter.

2) Strong parallels exist between decorated Christmas trees and a fairly widespread practice of hanging offerings from the branches of trees sacred to one or another god.

3) I'm not aware of any knot magic traditionally associated with pagan mid-winter festivals. Most likely, bows are the result of tying branches together in to swags or wreaths. Until the Industrial Revolution changed textile manufacturing, ribbons were an extravegance; people who had ribbons probably wanted to use those to make their decorations rather than use workaday string.

4) Heh, I expect that is just the fireplace grate. Logs burn better if there is some draft below it.

[ozone_man]

13. Looks like you've scooped me.

My list:

Wreath, Yule log, candles, presents, tree, tree ornaments, holly.

I think TechBear_Seattle gets the reward for best pagan. :thumbsup:

When I was out getting a wreath the other day, I lingered over the holly. I may get some this weekend. I seem to be getting more and more pagan as the years go by. It's only natural. ;)

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. Let's see... Eight.

1) Hearth (sacred to Thor, who when not off being a war god was a protector of the home worshipped at the central hearth.)

2) Red and white (colors sacred to Thor)

3) Decorating the home with evergreen-ery (generic European pagan)

4) Decorating with candles and things that resemble fruit (generic European pagan)

5) Wreath on wall (generic European pagan, associated with solar holy days)

6) Advent wreath on fireplace mantle (combines pagan elements of wreath and fire as a prayer for the light to grow strong in the depths of winter)

7) Exchange of gifts (nearly universal in winter)

8) Yule log (northern European)

Missing from the picture: mistletoe (sacred to the druids), reindeer (sacred to Scandanavian pagans), man dressed in red climbing down the chimney (Thor as the protector of the home and hearth).