Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Quit Thinking School Prayer Is Banned

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:16 PM
Original message
Quit Thinking School Prayer Is Banned
December 8, 2011
By Jeffrey Weiss

I suppose it's not really news that Texas Gov. Rick Perry is hoping that an emphasis on putting the Christ in Christmas will put his supporters into seats at the Iowa caucuses. After all, the unofficial kickoff of his presidential campaign was a Christian prayer rally in a football stadium.

- snip -

The grammar is a bit ambiguous, so I'm not sure if he means to say that schools prohibit Christmas and prayer or if the Christmas thing is a more universal attack on open celebration. Either way, no matter what one thinks of Perry's candidacy, this one is another major "oops" for the campaign.

- snip -

Wrote AP political reporter Beth Fouhy: "The Supreme Court prohibited school prayer in two landmark decisions in 1962 and 1963, calling it an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment."

Which is sooo close to being correct. The court actually prohibited mandatory school prayer. And that one word makes all the difference. (See: Twain, Mark on lightning-bug vs. lightning.)

http://www.realclearreligion.org/articles/2011/12/08/qu...
Refresh | +9 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you!
There is nothing in the law that prevents students from praying in school as long as it does not disrupt class. Public school teachers/administrators cannot lead prayers or require them because they are agents of the state and the 1st Amendment says "no law." Prohibiting students from praying in school would be a violation of the free exercise clause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
RevStPatrick Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Students are also not allowed to celebrate Christmas...
...you know, on that day off every single public school in the country gives them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You mean they can't put up Christmas trees or
decorate their homes, exchange gifts?
Or do you mean the Public Schools should be a place for Christian celebration?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Sounds like he wants them to go to school on Christmas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. He who?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. He you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Nope.
Never said anything of the kind. Nice try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Haven't you heard, Obama is so evil he cancelled Christmas for every child...
this year.

And, even though Christmas is on a Sunday, and there's a holiday on Monday, those holidays are all cancelled this year, too!

Obama did it, when he let gays into the military, it's in the fine print at the bottom of the page, and only Rich Perry knows about it.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Forced praying has no meaning
take that from a catholic school graduate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. So that atheist Obama had nothing to do with this... of course
Republicans think Obama caused the recession, too. So Obama is a mighty powerful evil atheist man!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. We already knew that
But it doesn't stop the wingnuts from passing that old myth around to get the crowds agitated every so often.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Charlemagne Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hey Republicans, you can pray in school
Edited on Thu Dec-08-11 10:06 PM by Charlemagne
All you want. But the teacher cant direct it and make kids do it.

Once, just once, I want a Catholic teacher working in a baptist area to have all the kids pray the rosary and say the hail mary. Can you imagine the shit storm from the fundamentalists?!?!?! Hey, they got what they wanted.....prayer in school.


Oh, that's right, it's only their very narrow version of religion that is allowed to be taught.


I swear if I ever ran for president I would do so by telling everyone I would make this country a Christian nation. And then make the catholic church the official and only church in the US. Then watch all them scream that "thats not what we meant." Be careful what you wish for, fundamentalists. You may just get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Here's something for the "put prayer back in schools" nuts
Give them what they want.

'Let's quiet down, children. Now that we've finally gotten rid of that terrible Supreme Court decision, I can again lead you in prayer.

'So children, let's get ready for our morning prayer. Did everyone remember to bring their chicken?
<snip>

'As you know from your schedule, children, today I will lead you in a Santeria prayer. It's a recognized, ancient religion. Now I know some of you have complained that many of these prayers don't represent your beliefs. But remember, they do represent the sincere beliefs of many Americans. I promise you that eventually we will lead the class in a prayer representing your own religion.

<snip>
'Johnnie, I don't know what you're doing to that chicken, but stop it. You need to straighten up and be serious. This is important. If it were not important, then why did 224 Texas counties and 51 Texas cities go to the trouble to pass resolutions supporting the reinstatement of state-sponsored prayer in our public schools? I'll tell you why, because lots and lots of people said the loss of state-sponsored prayers led to drug use, crime, violence, teenage pregnancy, dropouts, family disintegration, child-abuse, pornography, racism, poor academic achievement, overcrowded prisons and lots of other bad things.

<snip>

'Let's see, coming up we have Christian Science, Amish, Tibetan Buddhism, Seventh-Day Adventist, Comanche, Zoroastrianism, Druze, Calvinist Baptist, Unification, Hassidism and Deliverance Pentacostal. That one should be interesting. I think that's when you bring a rattlesnake and a cup of poison.

<snip>


Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Yes, I can imagine it.
It already happened several times in the late 19th/early 20th century, though it was always the other way around. (Catholics objecting to Protestant prayers/reading) It doesn't even take their kids being taught another religion, just someone objecting to being forced to learn theirs.

The Protestants usually ended up burning down whatever Catholic churches were handy, firebombing houses, and beating Catholics to death in the streets. Which is exactly what would happen again, especially in the south, where they've got overwhelming numbers. More likely it would be one of the less populous groups that are even more different like Jehova's Witnesses, SDAs, or Mormons would be who got it this time around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. The problem is "Prayer in school" is a dog whistle.
They know good and well they can pray in school. Most schools (At least in the deep south) have some sort of voluntary meeting thing either before school or during a lunch or break where kids pray. And we all know the kids have told their parents they do it, because it's a show and what's the point of a show if you don't let people know you're doing it?

When they say "Pray in school" they don't mean "I want my children to pray", they mean "I want to make your children pray, and I demand a captive audience for my beliefs".
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec 22nd 2014, 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC