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An example of old style secular government

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 05:23 AM
Original message
An example of old style secular government
"I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the state over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation." --George Washington, circular letter of farewell to the Army, 1783

Just another example of a holier than thou politician jamming Christianity down our throats. ( and yes I know it would be another 5 years until the Constitution is ratified)
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure the right wing appreciates your efforts to support the myth...
that we live in a Christian nation. Good job, you stick it to those stupid atheists who prefer separation of church and state!!! :sarcasm:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Firstly we are not living in 1783...
Secondly the problem is not whether some politician happens to pray for his country, The problem is when religion is used to entrench the powerful, oppress women, encourage discrimination against gays, and campaign for the right wing.

My country doesn't even have official church/state separation, but is in many ways more secular than America.

I don't really mind singing 'God Save the Queen' (though, God or no God, I might prefer our National Anthem to be about our citizens rather than our Monarch), or that she is described on coins as 'Defender of the Faith'.

I only mind slightly that a few Bishops vote in the House of Lords, or that a Council starts its meeting with prayers. I'm against both, but neither is top of my priority list.

I do mind very seriously if religious right-wingers campaign to defeat progressive and/or pro-choice politicians, or if they seek to restrict women's reproductive rights, or rant about gays, or attack atheists as intrinsically immoral, 'totalitarian', or lesser citizens.
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MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. So much do I appreciate your well-stated comments and your perspective!
Thanks for a great analysis and a refreshing point of view from over there.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Is "God save the Queen" the same as "God bless the Queen," or is there some history
behind the saying. What does the Queen need saving from? Is the "Queen" in that saying the literal Queen, or is it a metaphor for Great Briton, or something else?

Sorry for the off-topic questions.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It's the literal Queen, and it basically means 'save her from her enemies'
It is the National Anthem, sung with regard to all monarchs since, I think, George II (so most often it's been 'God Save the King'). Here are the lyrics:

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.


O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On thee our hopes we fix:
God save the Queen.


Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen

From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!



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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I see. Thanks for the info. nt
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow.
Nice right-wing talking points.
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deacon_sephiroth Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. The price of tea in China
The current price of tea in China is: 6723.4
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. I see you have been reading christian apologists websites trying to rewrite history again.
Edited on Wed Dec-07-11 10:06 AM by cleanhippie
Thats the last paragraph of a letter to the Governors disbanding the Army.


Did you have a point you wanted to make or are you just trying to stir up shit?

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MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Cherry picking personal letters as if it is the objective history of the USA, sort of like
cherry picking "man sleeps with man" from Leviticus.....and leaving out the shellfish parts.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gotta love when theocrats come out of the woodwork, why don't you move to Iran or something. n/t
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