Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I'll say it. Religion has never directly killed anyone.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:19 PM
Original message
I'll say it. Religion has never directly killed anyone.
Indirectly, yes.

Directly, no.

And I am even counting places with religious police (Iran, Saudi Arabia) where religion was used exclusively as justification for killing people.

No, these people let their fanaticism dictate their reason, and as a result, they concluded the reasonable thing to do was killing the sinner.

Refresh | 0 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. take a look at this....
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:24 PM
Original message
Perfect example of religion indirectly killing thousands. Millions perhaps.
Let me address it this way: religion says anything you want it to. I can use the Koran to show support for homosexuality, the bible to show support for staying drunk all day and Buddhist scripture to show support for war.

Now the interpreter of the religion is where the direct/indirect crux changes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Thats my opinion Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. Like every other perspective,
religion has its very dark side. When it is exclusive, walls all others out, believes it has the only truth, it can be deadly. But so can Pol Pot, Stalin, and good secularists who decided to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and to Agent Orange an entire nation--without a shred of religious sentiment. Maybe it says something about human nature when it is imperialistic--as often religion haws been.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. + 1
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AmericaIsGreat Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Of course it didn't
It's a belief system, not an object or person so obviously it cannot directly kill anything.

But people become the tools for religion to cause death when they are uneducated, uninformed, and indoctrinated into this belief system, one based on nothing more than the attempts by early, superstitious, desert-dwelling tribes to explain reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And on that we agree completely
I am an Atheist who harbors quite a bit of ill will for religion and faith

However, I would argue religion becomes the tool (justification) for people to cause death

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Well stated. Right! Belief systems, in and of themselves only serve to
motivate groups of humans to kill or to not kill, (love) other groups of humans.

Many wars in history have had a religion used as a motivating factor. Don't we all remember 9/11/2001 and Bush's improper use f the word "Crusade" soon thereafter?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
We_Must_Organize Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. But thats not the point is it?
Religion is the root of the largest, most ridiculous problems in the world. It makes no difference if religion has killed people directly or indirectly - it still kills people because of idiots who believe in fairy tales.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It can lead to killing people, yes. And it is built on a house of cards.
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 04:31 PM by Taverner
Invisible friends that the believer can only "feel" but that leave no evidence

No way to base the structure of your reality on...

BUT, it can lead to good

Mostly, however, it leads to the banal and mundane...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bullets have never directly killed anyone either.
They have only caused a leak in an artery, or damaged some organ or another which was, indirectly, involved in a failure to deliver glucose and oxygen to the brain. The bullet was only indirectly involved in the events that lead to the brain shutting down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. If you take a holistic approach, then yes, religion kills
But if you are going to do that, you have to go all the way and take in the interconnectedness of everything...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. OMG! My last post killed a kitten in Australia!. (Butterfly effect don't ya know.) nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. What about exorcisms-gone-wrong?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Or even what we have seen with people who refuse to get medical treatment
for their children, or fellow members of their faith?

ONLY a religion and outlandish religious beliefs kept them from getting what is proper human medical care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:40 PM
Original message
Hmmm...you have a good point there
Because exorcisms are direct. Not indirect, but flat out direct.

Yet another reason to look at this all in a holistic sense
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. Crusades or even Northern Ireland?
What about those?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Indirect, yes. Direct, no. HOWEVER, a poster pointed out exorcisms gone wrong
And that is a case of a direct link...so let me get back to you
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Apparently you've forgotten about that Spanish Inquisition thing. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Nonsense...
If that were true a case could be made for the KKK or the Nazi's....of course religion has been directly responsible for the murder of millions...look at what happened to the Aztecs...but their 'souls' we saved...the same story was repeated over and over around the world. Yes religion is responsible...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. People practicing religion kill all the time, but no, abstractions don't kill
Their religious books, religious leaders, and religious experiences tell them to kill, so they do.

But no, religion doesn't kill any more than velocity does. Object MOVING at high velocity kill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nice Sophistry
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. How about Bloody Mary in England??
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 06:04 PM by shraby
And the witches who were dunked and didn't float?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Horrifying ideas don't kill people. People who hold horrifying ideas kill people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. +1
Well said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. Religion has caused the death of millions of people
maybe even billions. Regardless of whether it was directly or indirectly, it does not matter, they are still dead, gone, never coming back. The rest is just semantics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Plantaganet Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mmmm...
...well, the Bible does, in no uncertain terms, call for homosexuals to be put to death. And for a whopping number of people around the planet that's their instruction book, so...

It's not precisely the same thing as a Bible standing up and actually murdering a gay person, but it's pretty close. Not much fanaticism is necessary at that point!

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Not any more.
Jesus pretty much put an end to the concept of stoning someone for certain sins when he drew that line in the sand over the woman who was accused of adultery. How can I possibly put someone to death for a sin when I'm chock full of them myself. And the biggest sinner is the one who thinks they never do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Plantaganet Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Phew!
What a relief! I assume the OT will be taken out of circulation pronto, eh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh yeah? What about THIS:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. Directly, all the time.
Some religions were known to include human sacrifice as a central part of their rituals. Oh, and nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition. The Jonestown tragedy was the direct result of a directive from the cult's leader. I could go on and on.

Religion is a dangerous thing that must be handled with care. In the wrong hands it can be used to justify about any heinous act you can imagine. I'm religious but that doesn't mean I don't see the dangers of it all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. I'm reminded of the slogan by gun owners...
Edited on Wed Dec-07-11 09:16 AM by LeftishBrit
'Guns don't kill people; people kill people'.

Similarly, religions don't kill people; people kill people.

But the world would be a better place if *both* guns *and* religion could be kept out of the hands of those who are already violent, sadistic, or seriously out of touch with reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
deacon_sephiroth Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'll say this. That's stupid
You're simply making a semantic point.

"Beiber Fever" has never killed anyone. A stampede of crazed girls might, but not the condition of liking someone.

Liking Classical music has never killed anyone. You might get hit by a car if you're listening to it on your headphones, but the music didn't kill you.

DU has never KILLED anyone. I might lose brain cells because I actually stooped to respond to this pathetic troll of a post, but the website didn't KILL me...

Your point is made, and I agree, but it was a waste of time AT BEST.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. Why a supposed Atheist would start a pointless exercise in sophistry as a legitimate
thread here?

I cannot imagine why. Boredom?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Jul 31st 2014, 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC