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NY elementary school teacher apologizes to 2nd grade classroom after telling them there is no Santa

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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:29 PM
Original message
NY elementary school teacher apologizes to 2nd grade classroom after telling them there is no Santa
NANUET After widespread holiday jeers, a teacher at Nanuet's George W. Miller Elementary School has apologized to her second-grade classroom after reportedly telling them there's no Santa Claus.

Leatrice Ann Eng of Pearl River issued the apology a day after she was accused of saying "no" to Ho-Ho-Ho during a geography class last Tuesday.

When the 7-year-olds told her they knew about the North Pole because of its white-bearded inhabitant, Eng reportedly responded that Santa did not exist and that Christmas presents were bought by their parents.

The alleged incident attracted widespread media coverage. The school and district offices fielded questions about the story last week that led to more than a few comparisons of Eng with Ebenezer Scrooge.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20111205/NEWS03/112050319/... |head

-------------------------------------------------------


It's a sad day when a teacher has to apologize for telling the truth about the world we live in.


Maybe parents shouldn't be lying to their kids? Just a thought.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. One of my biggest joys when my children were young was their belief
in Santa Clause. If nothing else it kept them on good behavior for a few weeks. This teacher should be disciplined and I don't blame the parents for being furious at all. Your thoughts about parents shouldn't be lying to their kids is a sad thought.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. So, let me just make sure I have this right,
lying to your children is OK, because if nothing else it makes them behave better?
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It made them happy and put some magic in their young lives...n/t
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Easy enough to do without lies.
What happens when they learn the truth?
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Perhaps it made YOU happy and put "magic" in YOUR life?
Magic, huh?

Thats just what the world needs more of.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Now my grandchildren no longer believe. Some of the magic has
gone out of Christmas for me.

This teacher should be ashamed of herself.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. What is "magical" about lying to children?
:shrug:
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. If you don't get it,you don't get it. No explanation would suffice. eom
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. No, I do not "get it", but I would LOVE to hear your justification for lying to children.
I won't even respond to it, so please, enlighten me...

:popcorn:
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Why does this all remind me of
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 07:00 PM by AsahinaKimi
the movie Miracle on 34th Street? Seems, that I remember, that little girl was miserable in the film until she discovered "the magic".

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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thats was fiction, you know.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. OF course it was!!!
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 07:02 PM by AsahinaKimi
BUT it was as "FEEL GOOD" MOVIE too... maybe we shouldn't have feel good movies anymore..lets all have reality based miserable ones!!! YAY!!!
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I guess I am not seeing the correlation then.
Movies are well, movies. They are not real. Do we tell our children that Ariel (The little mermaid) is REAL? That talking penguins are REAL? That zoo animals are talking, sentient beings?


Fell-good movies are DESIGNED to make one feel good. What does that have to do with this teacher giving FACTS about the Arctic?
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. "Fell good movies are Designed to make one feel good..."
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 07:14 PM by AsahinaKimi
And are of course lies!!! We don't want to tell kids lies, so lets not take our kids to disney movies anymore!! Lets show them the real world!! NO more COMIC books, no more Fantasy art, and fairy tale movies like Shrek! Its lying to our kids!!
No more reading stories, and in fact, lets get rid of Games... and ALL FORMS OF ENTERTAINMENT that are LIES. MAYBE kids should no longer grow up with "feel good" things because its all LIES!!!

What kind of sterile world do you want us to live in? OMG!!! IF they are told lies, they might believe in some kind of religion!


You don't see a connection? wow....
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Are you being this obtuse on purpose?
Are you really telling me that there is no difference between the FICTION that is movies and comics and the myriad other things you listed and the LIE that parents perpetuate over the first DECADE or more of a child's life to control their behavior?

Really?
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. Sorry that you are
Just not seeing it! Enjoy the day!
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I'm seeing that you are making a false equivalency.
Its too bad that YOU do not see that.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. mata ne!
Thanks for the chat.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #60
61.  My Japanese is a bit rusty, but it sounds like you are running away.
離れて実行しない、のはより多くの話をしましょう
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Wow, advocating the use of lies and deceit to control the behavior of your children.
Despicable.

:puke:
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Despicable? Hardly...n/t
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Using lies and deceit is not despicable?
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 06:52 PM by cleanhippie
Who knew?

What a very progressive thing that must be.
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MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
53. Republicans do it all the time, and get away with it! So does...
Fox News. And I'm sure few people here like THOSE kinds of lies and deceit.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bah! Humbug!
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. The teacher crossed the line
It's up to the parents what to tell their kids about Santa (or God for that matter).

dg
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Why?
We require teachers to impart all kinds of difficult facts to children.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. There are things that should be left up to the parents
Your personal belief that there is no God does not make that a fact.

dg

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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. It's a LACK of belief and this is not about god.
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 09:01 PM by cleanhippie
But you know that. Don't let those facts get in the way now. You have ready demonstrated that facts interrupt your beliefs.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
51. And it's your personal belief, right?
I know, based on the yelling & screaming in this forum, how you would feel if a teacher told your child that he/she'd go to hell for not believing in God (which is also the wrong thing to do), so why aren't you willing to extend that same courtesy to kids of believers? Ah, that's right, you believe (there's that word again) that we're inferior to you & so it's ok to trample on our parental authority.


dg
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Uhm, no.
Ah, that's right, you believe (there's that word again) that we're inferior to you & so it's ok to trample on our parental authority.

DO you just make this all up as you go along, or what?


Isn't there something in YOUR beliefs about not bearing false witness? I'm pretty sure there is, and that its important, right?
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Are there? And what are those things? What group or board decided them?
It sounds to me like the same argument every un-engaged public school parent makes. "Teach my kids everything for me...WAIT! I'm uncomfortable with that topic!"
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. So you agree that both Santa and God are imaginary. n/t
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Didn't say that
Your belief that there is no God does not make it a fact.

dg
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Who said anything about belief?
It's the awesome lack of evidence and incredible nature of the claims made about him that put God into the "really damn unlikely" category of logical conclusions.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Oh yeah?
How do you explain a beautiful sunrise or a child's laughter, hmm? Explain that with your cold, atheist physics!

:rofl:
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. Your personal belief nt
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Does it make you feel better to have the last word, no matter how nonsensical it is?
:rofl:


Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, right?
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
67. Keep thinking that. It clearly helps you avoid reality.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. without Santa that religion would wither and die lol. bad teacher nt
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. ...
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. +1
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. For my sister it has gone from the parents lying about Santa to the daughter doing so.
When my niece was ELEVEN she still claimed to believe in Santa and my sister took her at her word. I think the neice was just afraid that the party would be over if she admitted that she knew it was fiction.
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Sal316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. So...
...making children cry, crushing their hopes and dreams, and dismissing their imagination as "silly nonsense" in the name of "truth" is the right thing to do?

Wow.

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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Those who start the Santa lie set that eventuality in motion.
Either the parents will "crush their hopes and dreams", or someone else will. So who here is really the problem?
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Sal316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Who?
The people that think this:




...is more important than letting kids enjoy the mystery and wonder of Christmas.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. There's plenty of wonder in the conglomeration of holidays around the Solstice
without lies. I would say that those who set their children up for such an awful realization are the real problem, and I don't see how there's any way around that, no matter how much "mystery" you wish to invoke.
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Sal316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Sometimes....
....there are things more important than being right.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I'm not the one setting up children for disillusionment,
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 09:03 PM by darkstar3
and the depression that comes from knowing that sometimes people will lie straight to your face on purpose for no good reason.

Seems to me like the important thing is preserving their innocence, not ensuring its demise.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
70. That seems a bit overblown
The Santa Claus fantasy is one that children enjoy in its time, and one that ALL children not only grow out of (usually on their own), and more importantly are ALLOWED to grow out of. Maybe there's a little bit of disillusionment at some moment in there, but I think the fun outweighs it, and I'm not aware of any children being permanently harmed by any of it. If parents were still forcing their kids to believe in Santa Claus and adhere to the fantasy when they were 14 or 15, then the whole thing might smack of harmful indoctrination, but (unlike with religion) I've never heard of any parents doing that.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. So my six-year-old cousin, whose eleven-year-old sister informed her of the truth
had a completely overblown reaction?

It's all fun and games until someone fucks up your timetable.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. If she's still traumatized at 8 or 18
Edited on Wed Dec-07-11 07:19 PM by skepticscott
then there might be a case for comparing this to the kind of lies told as part of organized religion. But I'm guessing she'll recover nicely, if she hasn't already.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Trauma? I'm sure that's one word I never used.
Let me see if I can put this a different way: There are many firsts in life that we will remember, and the first time you find out people will lie to you just because they can is one of them.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Oh, please tell me more about the "mystery and wonder of Christmas."
Considering that it's all about compulsary consumerism and an attemp by religion to co-op pagan observances, I fail to see your point.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. If you think THAT is what is happening here, our children are screwed.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Is it not true that Santa doesn't exist?
:shrug:
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
63. I cannot believe that this discussion is being had.
How is it that grown adults are seriously arguing over the existence of Santa Claus? Until just now, I thought it was uncharitable to compare the belief in God to the belief in Santa Claus, but here we see the same arguments, the same rhetoric, the same concern about tone, as in the god/no-god debate. This is like something out of Alice in Wonderland.

How is it the fault of those who don't believe in Santa Claus that these kids become disillusioned? We didn't make up the lie, and no amount of our pretending to believe in it is going to stop kids from finding out.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Glad you are seeing the similarities.
Welcome to the enlightenment.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. She should have made them sit under The Tree of Knowledge.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. That's a better alternative than sitting in church or Sunday school.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. That's a matter of opinion.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I don't see how facts could opinion.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
48. There is no lie in a belief
Beliefs are as real as emotions
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I see it right there in the word.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. Good one
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Umm...
belief
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
55. Well,
The whole baby Jesus in the manger thing is just as much a fairy tale as Santa anyway.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Shhhh. You gonna ruin the "magic"!!!!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
65. Thanks for the thread. It's nice to learn how pathetic some DUers are.
Evidently some had a brutally honest and cheerless childhood.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Right, because that's the logical result of advocating that parents not lie to their children.
:wtf:
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. It is pathetic to think that there are DUers that advocate lying to children to control behavior.
It seems that you may be in that group. Am I reading you right?
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. When I was little my mother taught me many truths
One of them was that corporations don't really care about you. They only want to sell their product and make $$$. Until then I thought that McDonalds did it all for me. Maybe I should be mad at her for destroying the magic.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
69. I feel like I'm on Mars while
reading this thread. Bizarro-world.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
75. Can someone tell me if it's OK to compare Santa to fairies at the bottom of the garden?
There's a sizeable contingent that thinks that comparing Santa to Jesus is Out Of Bounds; and another contingent that thinks Santa belief gets the same constitutional protections as religion - ie schools must not say anything about it (I presume that contingent thinks comparing Santa to Jesus is AOK, as long as it isn't a school making the comparison), and it's up to parents to control what children hear about them, and when.

But it seems to me that childhood beliefs in fairies are on a par with Santa - the vast majority of adults accept they're just a story to entertain children. Is there are age at which schools are OK with telling children that fairies aren't real? Is it the same age as Santa? If a second grade child said "there are fairies at the bottom of my garden" in a discussion about growing things, should the teacher disabuse them of this idea?
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