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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 01:51 PM
Original message
Fundamentalist Christians ‘spanked’ daughter to death
CNN’s Gary Tuchman reported Monday on a fundamentalist Christian couple who killed their 7-year-old adopted daughter while practicing a violent form of discipline.

They reportedly beat their nine children regularly because they thought God wanted them to. Both parents were jailed after pleading guilty to the crime and the surviving children are now in foster homes.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/fundamentalis... /

-----------------------------------------------

Just MORE mental illness that has nothing to do with religion?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Disgusting and outrageous.
:mad: That poor child. What denomination of Christianity was this one, and will they help in their defense?
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Atheists often spank their children too.
Douubtless some atheists have even killed their children. It's not so rare a crime as to never happen in a group that is larger in the US than Jews or Muslims.

But I think we can be pretty damn sure none of those atheists did it because they thought the lack of any gods wanted them to.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Unless an atheist is spanking their child FOR believing in a god, its irrelevant.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sometimes I hate
people.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Their role model in this case
were Michael and Debbie Pearl, author of The Christians' Guide on the Proper Way to Beat Your Child:

http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1...
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The Pearls even support hitting little babies.
This is insanity.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's some more info:

Officers responded to a home on Crestwood Drive at one Saturday morning where the eight year old had stopped breathing. Emergency personnel performed CPR and revived her, but she died on the way to the hospital. Investigators also discovered an eleven year old child with major injuries who was rushed to Sutter Memorial Hospital in Sacramento. Seven other children were removed from the home. Officers say six of the nine kids were the biological children of Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz. The three others, including the deceased and the injured eleven year old, were adopted ... The children were being home schooled. Officers say the parents had no prior history of abuse. Both Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz were arrested and remain in Butte County Jail. The seven other children have been placed in protective custody ...
Paradise Homicide
Last Update: 2/06/2010 6:45 pm
http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/Paradise-...

... Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz of Paradise had six biological children and three adopted children who were home-schooled. Police say the children were disciplined and beaten for not spelling words correctly. The Schatz family went to Liberia to adopt their three daughters in 2007. We interviewed the family at that time ...
New Details About Couple Accused of Killing Adopted Daughter
Last Update: 2/08/2010 11:51 pm
http://www.knvn.com/content/localnews/story/New-Details...

Lydia, who had been rescued from an orphanage in Liberia, allegedly had mispronounced a word during a reading session at home and faced the consequences. Elizabeth Schatz called 911 to report the girl had stopped breathing ... A follow-up investigation led to the Paradise police finding two other children with visible injuries, one of them Lydia’s sister, 11-year-old Zariah, who was suffering from kidney failure. The Schatzes were ... charged with first-degree murder, felony torture and misdemeanor cruelty to a child ... Police found, on the Schatzes’ bed, a 15-inch section of PVC tube, a quarter-inch thick. They believe it to be the murder weapon, as both Lydia and Zariah had “whip-like” marks that matched the length and width of the pipe ... On the Pearls’ Web page, nogreaterjoy.org, Michael Pearl writes ... “As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of 1/4 inch plumber’s supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around your neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line” ...
Child-abuse case shines light on Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz
Thursday February 18, 2010
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/24145/no-greater-joy-mi...

Three years ago, Kevin Schatz and his wife Elizabeth did something so noble, a local television station featured them; the pair decided to adopt three children from Liberia. Now, they're accused of killing one of the children because she mispronounced a word ... If convicted, Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz face life in prison.
DA: Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz Killed Daughter With "Religious Whips" for Mispronouncing Word
By Edecio Martinez
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6009742-504083.h...

... The Paradise couple accused of beating their adopted daughter to death and critically injuring another will not be going trial after reaching a last minute plea deal with prosecutors. Trial for Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz was to begin Monday, but on Friday afternoon Kevin Schatz agreed to plead guilty to all the charges against him, including first degree murder and torture, in exchange for a reduced charge of voluntary manslaughter for his wife. The agreement means the couple’s children will not have to testify in court. Both entered guilty pleas Friday afternoon. Butte County district attorney Mike Ramsey says Kevin Schatz faces two life sentences and will not be eligible for parole for 22 years. Elizabeth Schatz agreed to the maximum sentence of 13 years, four months. The couple is set to be formally sentenced June 10th ...
Plea Deal Reached in Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz Murder Case
http://whynottrainachild.com/2011/04/08/plea-deal-schat... /

... Kevin Schatz was sentenced to two life terms for second-degree murder and torture and will have to serve at 22 years. Elizabeth Schatz was sentenced to 13 years, four months for voluntary manslaughter and infliction of unlawful corporal punishment ... The prison terms were part of the plea bargain with prosecutors ...
Couple sentenced for ‘religious’ beating death and torture of children
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/26024/kevin-and-elizabe...

American absolutist notions of "free speech" allow wackos like Michael and Debi Pearl freely to advocate beating the crap out of kids. And, of course, Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz were free to read the wacko writings of Michael and Debi Pearl. However, although about two-thirds of Californians self-identify as Christian, the state of California managed to incarcerate Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz without opposition, presumably because Californians who call themselves "Christian" typically aren't endorsing the Pearl-Schatz view
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. From one of the links:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/26024/kevin-and-elizabe...

Kevin Sears, Elizabeth Schatz’s attorney, said the case was a tragedy and didn’t dispute the death or injury. However, he asserted the probation report wasn’t wholly accurate. In particular, he said the hours of whipping were interrupted with periods of prayer and reflection.

~~

:eyes:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. 'The hours of whipping were interrupted with periods of prayer and reflection'
So that makes it all right, then?

:puke: :puke: :puke:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Damage control FAIL.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Let's give SOME credit for humanity here - don't think that was attempted damage control
Edited on Thu Aug-18-11 11:39 AM by dmallind
I hope to any gods who may be listening that it wasn't.

Seemed to me like just more details without the usual attempts at exculpation, which is a point to which we should graciously agree - that there are some actions for which the motivation is religious that cannot be excused or explained away by other followers of the same religion.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. One might ask whether some covert racism is involved here. Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz
had six biological children and adopted three more children from Liberia



... The other Schatz children .. have reportedly made statements to investigators about the disciplinary philosophy to which their parents adhered. Lydia and Zariah were .. adopted from Liberia three years ago ... The other children told investigators the same instrument was used on all of them, but Ramsey said it was not to the extent of the two girls and except for the Schatz’ bruised 10-year-old son, none of the other children showed signs of abuse ... http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2010/02/22/michael-an... /

... Police say the children were disciplined and beaten for not spelling words correctly ... http://www.knvn.com/content/localnews/story/New-Details...

So one of the Liberian adoptees was beaten to death, and another adoptee landed in intensive care at the same time, as a result of the parents' bizarre educational theories, while the biological children were not subjected to comparable levels of "discipline"

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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Bit of a wild surmise, but possible I guess.
Maybe the adoptees were weaker too, or more independent of spirit and less willing to back down, or sure possibly beaten more harshly. The main issue of course is that these monsters considered beatings where death and hospitalization were even vaguely likely to be acceptable Christian discipline. Why some kids died and others did not is a question for the psych. counselors really.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. One of the few rewarding things I get to do in my line of work
Edited on Wed Aug-17-11 04:46 PM by jberryhill
The people responsible for this atrocity are at nogreaterjoy.org.

Have a look at http://www.nogreaterjoy.com .

http://www.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/326235.htm

Complainant is No Greater Joy Ministries (“Complainant”), 1000 Pearl Road, Pleasantville, TN 37033. Respondent is Name Administration Inc. (BVI) (“Respondent”), represented by John Berryhill
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. +1000000000
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The decision was much less colorful than the defense brief ;-)

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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Must admit I hate those link sites that squat on similar names, but in this case no worries
I certainly make no claim that such sites are illegal, I just personally think it's a bit slimy to capitalize on typos and domain confusion to try and siphon away traffic to paying shills.

But anything that siphons traffic away from these bastards is fine by me.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's a phrase from a Bible verse

...and not distinctive of any one organization.

When we learned about this guy, we were damned if we were going to let him have the domain name.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Let's not mince words, the child was BEATEN to death.
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Thats my opinion Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe someone
should keep searching the internet so that r/t can have dozens of horror stories about non-believers. But that would also be a stupid irrelevant and silly an exercise.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think you just volunteered.
Edited on Wed Aug-17-11 06:28 PM by laconicsax
BTW: It isn't about believers doing bad things, it's about them doing bad things because of their religious beliefs.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. If you can find horror stories about how someone used their LACK OF BELIEF as the rationale
Edited on Wed Aug-17-11 07:53 PM by cleanhippie
to do something atrocious, I think we ALL would want to see that.

On edit: I would like to see ANY story where a persons LACK OF BELIEF in a god was the reason they did ANYTHING!
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. A bit different though
Whst we have here is the difference between the following:

1)Buford Furrow, who shot up kids at a Jewish center and an immigrant postman, BECAUSE OF his neo-nazi anti-semitism and hatred of Jews and foreigners (msy have had links to extreme Christian groups too)

2)Meyer Lansky, who arranged for the deaths of far more people in a wide-reaching thuggish criminal enterprise, including his own best friend, and was Jewish

If we examine the motivations of these two for their misdeeds, we see that religion, mostly Judaism in this case, was far more pivotal to Furrow, the Jew-hater, than it was to Lansky, the Jew who just wanted wealth and power.

What matters here is the motivation, not the ancilliary attribute of the criminal. These child-killers were motivated, inspired, and assured of their correctness, by their religious beliefs. There are without question atheists who have done the same, and far worse, but in almost all cases that's no more a reflection on me as an atheist than the fact that I share the same birthplace as the Yorkshire Ripper and the same beard as Charles Manson is a reflection of their misdeeds on me. If Sutcliffe had killed because of his birthplace and Manson because of his beard, I'd have some thinking to do about their influence on me and others with the same traits.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Horrific
Let's make clear, it is not the case that most religious believers, or most Christians, or even fundamentalist Christians, believe that God supports this sort of cruelty to children. But there seems to be an element within some branches of fundie Christianity which strongly approves of 'breaking children's will', at whatever price.

In particular, these 'parents' seem to have been influenced by the writings of the Pearls, which are incredibly nasty and dangerous.

Read this and weep:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archi... /

Excerpts:

'Without the rod you are giving the child a false concept of the nature of God. God does hate sin, and he is to be feared. The Bible says, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom (Psalm 111:10).” And again, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 1 :7).” “The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether (Psalm 19 :9).” Many people, especially religious people, take offense to the Biblical teaching that God is to be feared. Yet we all fear government, the state trooper, the IRS, and any temporal institution that has the power to punish offenders. We are to fear God as a man in the military fears his commanding officers. Without such fear there would be no discipline, and the armed forces would be rendered ineffective. A man in the army may both fear his sergeant and love him at the same time. The fear comes from the power he wields. The love comes from the deep respect the soldier has for the man that gives him self-respect by forcing him to excel.

As governor of the universe, God has revealed his platform, his constitution, and his agenda. He is narrow minded and decisive. He is not subject to change or negotiation. His laws are unalterable, and the consequences for breaking them are certain and final. He is not an activist judge who reinterprets his laws to fit the changing majority opinions. He is “the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8).” “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:31).”

The rod mirrors judgment to come.

.... We do not believe that when small children die they are in jeopardy of hell. We believe there is a special dispensation for those who have not matured into a consciousness of accountability. Yet all adults learned the rules of society and God when they were very young, before they reached a condition of accountability. If parents allow their children to be unruly, never forcing them to obey, to conform to the rule of law, by the time the child is old enough to understand his accountability, he will already have developed a world-view that assumes there is no day of reckoning, no punishment for doing evil, only more threatening words. People have an overwhelming tendency to live by the principles they learned before the age of six.

Though children cannot understand coming judgment, they must be trained to make decisions with consequences in mind. If you allow the child several years of living without consequences, it is difficult for him to ever accept the truths of coming judgment, the character of God, and the nature of sin. The swift and just application of the rod causes the child to believe that all evil is punished and that one cannot get away with sin. Whatever you sow you will reap.'

And from another article:

'If you are seeking to avoid the rod because you are an emotional coward or you are a product of contemporary philosophy, then not obeying God in this matter should not be considered an option. The Word of God teaches us the best method of child training, and proper use of the rod is a part of that program. Furthermore, if you abstain from use of the rod because you believe there is a better way, then you have revealed a fundamental flaw in your thinking that will leave a giant hole in any method you adopt. In other words, a person who understands the value and principle of the rod, but is somehow prevented from using it, will carry those valuable principles over into rodless training and so reap some of the benefits. Whereas the person that does not believe in use of the rod is so flawed in his understanding of human nature and life in general that no technique will be entirely effective for him.'

And from another:

'How many licks?

There is no number that can be given. It would be better to administer more licks that are less forceful than to administer few licks that hurt severely. It is much more effective to administer chastisement or punishment in a slow thoughtful fashion. Our goal is to cause the child to voluntarily surrender his will. We want to impress upon him the severity of his disobedience. It takes time and thoughtfulness for the child to come to repentance. I have told a child I was going to give him 10 licks. I count out loud as I go. After about three licks, leaving him in his position, I would stop and remind him what this is all about. I would continue slowly, still counting, stop again and tell him that I know it hurts and I wish I didn’t have to do it but that it is for his own good. Then I would continue slowly. Pretending to forget the count, I would again stop at about eight and ask him the number. Have him subtract eight from ten, (a little homeschooling) and continue with the final two licks. Then I would have him stand in front of me and ask him why he got the spanking. If his answer showed that he was rebellious and defiant, he would get several more licks. Again he would be questioned as to his offense. If he showed total submission, we put it all behind us, but if he were still rebellious, we would continue until he gave over his will. Only about three of our five children ever resisted after a spanking and refused to cooperate. Each of the three required only one experience of continued spankings until they surrendered. None of the three ever tried it a second time. In all cases, it was between the ages of two and four that they tried their moment of defiance.'


This is all REALLY scary!







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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. And the "mentally ill" all-purpose copout is no use here.
The Pearls and the many legions of their disciples are not handicapped people who do not understand that they are doing something destructive. They not only know they are breaking the child's emotional self-worth, they beat them expressly for that reason and joyfully celebrate it. I am not one who believes there is no place at all for corporal punishment, but I don't think the point of it is to break a person's will and render them an emotionally crippled automoton dependent on your whim (and the translated whim of your god - translated by you of course). That's not mental illness, and it's not sensible correction - it's cruelty, both physical and emotional. Cruelty for Christ.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Spare the quarter-inch plumbing supply line, spoil the child (Harris | Salon | 2006)
Thursday, May 25, 2006 09:00 ET
By Lynn Harris
... Lynn Paddock, 45, a devotee of the Pearls' teachings, is currently behind bars. She is charged with first-degree murder in the death of 4-year-old Sean ... Paddock's attorney, Michael Reece, confirmed to Salon that Paddock owned "To Train Up a Child" and was a devotee of the Pearls' teachings ... Still, the Pearls' 18-employee nonprofit company, No Greater Joy ministries, is big business ... <with> $1.5 million annual earnings ... http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls

The Pearls’ Profit-sharing Program
Fri, Mar 25 2011
... Michael and Debi Pearl, out of the goodness of their hearts, have come up with a phenomenal way to boost your income (not to mention theirs!) All you have to is peddle Pearl paraphernalia. What a fantastic ministry/business opportunity you can do together with your kids. It’s called the “Business in a Box” and here's how it works. Go to the No Greater Joy website ... and click on “Learn about Distributorship Program”. When you do, an exciting opportunity awaits you ... http://thewartburgwatch.com/category/church-discipline /

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