Atheism is no more a religion than theism is...

[Humanist_Activist]

They are about whether you have a belief on one particular issue, the existence of a deity or deities. Religions are so much more than that, a general belief in the supernatural, rituals, communal activity in some cases, a doctrine or principles that are followed, holy texts, etc. Religions are mutable and hard to pin down, but we seem to know them when we see them. The fact is that whether you are a theist or atheist is completely removed from whether you follow a religion or not. I know plenty of theists who have no religion, and atheists that do have a religion. The theists I know believe in a generalized deity, no longer consider themselves members of "organized religion" and follow a religion of one, that involves no rituals, no churches, and no trappings of religion at all. Generally they live their lives as if no god was there, but still believe in them, other beliefs of there may vary, whether there is an afterlife, etc. Most often, they will identify themselves as spiritual but not religious.

The atheists I know follow religions that don't require a belief in a deity at all, certain Buddhists are a classic and more well known example, but there are also Animists, certain Shamanistic religions, spiritualists, and plenty in the New Age Religious Movements. Most don't even concern themselves with a god or gods, they may believe instead in a spiritual realm, ancestor worship, or in animism, that spirits watch over them, etc.

The thing to remember is this, lacking a belief in deities informs you of nothing about a person's other beliefs, the same as knowing someone is a theist informs you of nothing about their other beliefs. I know an atheist who believes in horoscopes and a theist who believes they are bullshit. The point is that don't try to pigeonhole either one, its only about one issue after all. Knowing someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are someone who discards the supernatural entirely, in the same way that knowing someone is a theist doesn't mean they are someone who discarded rationality altogether either. Both types have faith in something supernatural, but not in the same things.

[BlueCaliDem]

1. Good opinion. It differs from mine, but it's a good one nevertheless.

From what I've seen with Atheists, they're as dogmatic as many a religioso. They're as defensive, offensive, and even patronizing when it comes to propagating their core beliefs, or ridiculing other's core beliefs, as any Catholic or Muslim, even.

I'm a Christian by choice. And because I'm a Christian, I take my faith and spirituality seriously. I never, ever try to convince a non-Christian, Christian fanatic, or Atheist of my p.o.v. and I never, EVER ridicule another person's beliefs and faith. Christians understand this is in accordance with Christ's teachings; to respect other people's faiths - something many non-Christians, Christian-fanatics, and/or Atheists have the tendency not to do.

Beliefs and spirituality is a personal choice, and that's how it should be. And that's how it should remain.

I subscribe to the "live and let live" position. Respect my choice and I'll happily respect yours. Ridicule my choice(s), and I can't take you seriously.

Live and let live, but do so with respect for other points of view and other faiths and beliefs.

Peace.:hippie:

[DesertFlower]

2. i agree with your statement.

"Live and let live, but do so with respect for other points of view and other faiths and beliefs."

[Humanist_Activist]

7. Its easy to agree with something that's impossible to follow.

Question, do you respect the beliefs of the Aryan Brotherhood? Or how about the Westboro Baptist Church?

[DesertFlower]

54. i'm not doing to dignify that with an answer.

[BlueCaliDem]

18. It's a very simple concept, and it brings much more peace to a soul

whether they're spiritual, religious, or non-religious.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the KKK, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban would all subscribe to those simple words, practice them, and live them? Can you imagine how our world would be if they had it in them to do that?

I know. I know. Unrealistic, but you've got to start somewhere.

[DesertFlower]

57. exactly. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

3. What has been your experience with atheists off the board?

I ask because I do tend to discuss my atheism here. I am far less likely to bring it up in personal conversation. I don't ridicule Christians - I came from there, my family is there -- but I will discuss my journey to disbelief when asked.

[BlueCaliDem]

12. I've lived in the Netherlands for over sixteen years. The Netherlands is land of Atheists

and they believe anyone who still chooses to believe in Christ is dumber than a stack of bricks. I have yet to meet an Atheist who doesn't, at least, try when given a chance.

I have been ridiculed and put down in get-togethers by self-professed Atheists whenever I mention a belief in the Christian faith. But if you want an example, take a look at the two responses from the skeptic here who responded to my posting, and you can get a taste of what I've experienced with Atheists throughout my life.

I have never, EVER, put down an Atheist's choice to not believe in any deity or faith. I don't patronize them. I don't ridicule them.

[skepticscott]

14. The "poor persecuted Christian" meme

is very old on this board. But it's still nothing more than a pleading for special status and deference to a certain type of delusional thinking, simply because it invokes "god" or "christ" or "faith".

[BlueCaliDem]

17. So, how are Atheists not "defensive, offensive, and even patronizing

when it comes to propagating their core beliefs, or ridiculing other's core beliefs?

Once again, you've proved my statement irrevocably correct. I couldn't have done it without you, Skepticscott.

[Humanist_Activist]

20. And how are you any different, you are defensive, offensive and patronizing...

at least admit that much.

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Now you're doing a Bart Simpson "I know what you are, but what am I"

and yes, I'll admit you are doing as much.

I didn't attack you. You decided to be overly sensitive and defensive, and then patronizing, even making it personal.

At least admit as much.

[Humanist_Activist]

40. Actually no I didn't, I never claimed to be on a high horse.

I'm just pointing out your dishonesty and hypocrisy.

Of course you didn't attack me, but all atheists, and you are so blinded by your supposed superiority as a Christian you cannot even see the log in your eye before you see the splinter in mine, to borrow a phrase from your "good" book which you apparently never bothered to read.

[BlueCaliDem]

52. Okay. Now you're just being hateful, and I don't need this.

I'm done here. But I still want to thank you for underscoring the points I made in my original post.

[Goblinmonger]

58. Pointing out hypocrisy is hateful now?

Interesting. Perhaps the atheists you run into in the Netherlands actually respond to your attitude which you don't see as being any problem at all.

[skepticscott]

24. Yes, I know you'd like

atheists to be meek and mild and just keep our opinions to ourselves, just as the threat of a public roasting had us doing for centuries, and as the threat of social ostracization had us doing for centuries more. But it's a vain hope. And try not to pretend that Christians aren't so insecure and so threatened by an opposing opinion or worldview that they take ANY expression that their god doesn't exist as deeply offensive, bigoted and disrespectful.

[BlueCaliDem]

37. This Christian is absolutely not threatened by an opposing opinion or worldview

Yes, I know you'd like atheists to be meek and mild and just keep our opinions to ourselves,

Now, that's funny. I have YET to meet a meek and mild Atheist who can keep his/her opinions to his/herself. They usually chomp at the bit to prove how silly I am for believing in an invisible friend up there in the fluffy clouds.

Like I've stated in my first comment, the Atheists I've met are as defensive, offensive, and patronizing as any Muslim and/or Catholic.

And you've driven that point home completely, irrevocably, and beyond my wildest dreams.

[skepticscott]

47. I'm guessing you've probably never met any Christians

who are offended in the least by ANY suggestion, no matter how polite, that their god doesn't exist, right? You really need to get out more.

And do you even grasp that the kind of atheists you've met, and the way you'd like us to be are not the same? Sheesh.

[Leontius]

53. "They must be afraid of us, how weak their faith is."

the rock and refuge of many "bold" atheists.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. OK, now I see, you had bad experiences with Atheists in the past and now you...

are espousing your bigotry because of some false sense of persecution and being wronged. The amusing part is you are acting out of anger, false need for revenge, who knows why, and yet it is ultimately counterproductive.

[Leontius]

25. So pointing out , when asked by the way, someones personal experiences

now qualifies as bigotry, good to know I'll start using that as a response .

[Humanist_Activist]

29. No, making generalizations based on those experiences qualifies as bigotry...

read the poster's other posts.

[Leontius]

30. I did and it is stated as personal experiences

nowhere that I saw is the leap made to say that since this is my experience with non believers all non believers must be the same.

[Humanist_Activist]

38. Read the posters first post, first paragraph, substitute the word atheist...

with any other group of people, and remember no qualifiers are used, and then tell me the poster wasn't making a generalization.

[BlueCaliDem]

50. Sorry you've missed the qualifier, but here it is, in the first sentence

and in the first paragraph: "From what I've seen with Atheists,"

How is that generalizing? I was trying to convey that my comment is based on my personal experience. I believed my qualifier was sufficient. Apparently, it wasn't.

[immoderate]

61. Yes. That's confirmation bias.

You will surely remember atheists that challenge your sensibilities. You may not notice the ones who patronize you.

It appears to me that you came out of the chute with an attack.

The problem with religion and with the OP is the lack of parity. Knowledge is not the same as irrational belief, and it matters not if it's a deity, a leprechaun, a crystal or a Tarot deck.

--imm

[BlueCaliDem]

41. In the past?

How about NOW.

And now I'm a bigot?? Oh wow. How defensive and offensive of you.

I'm also acting out of anger? How patronizing and offensive of you.

How about you reread your postings and compare them to mine before you dig yourself into a deeper hole here? It might make it clear to you which one of us is acting out of anger, too.

When you come out judgmental and swinging toward me, I will defend myself. Like I made clear in my previous posts, if you're polite, I'll be polite. If you choose to be rude, I can be rude with the best of them.

I'm sorry you mistakenly believed that my being a Christian is the equivalent to being an angry Atheit's punching bag. Let me make it clear to you - it's NOT.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. Oh please, don't pretend to be innocent here, you wanted this reaction...

to derail this thread, I would say that I fell for your trap, but I actually came into it fully aware of what it is. Who is exposing who now? You are the one whose dishonesty is being exposed here.

[BlueCaliDem]

51. I'm not pretending anything. I believed this was a public MB, and I was allowed

to give my opinion. I never meant to derail your thread. You can believe that or not.

[_ed_]

27. You sound petulant

Why must others respect your beliefs about the sky-god named Jesus? I don't respect your beliefs at all because they are unreasonable and have no basis in fact. I view your Christianity like I view alchemy, divining, and ghost stories.

I respect people as individuals, but I refuse to respect your beliefs. They are not entitled to respect.

What do you call people who believe in things that have no basis in fact? What do you call people who take their child to a faith healer instead of a doctor?

[BlueCaliDem]

48. So do you

Others don't have to respect my beliefs, and they don't have to respect me as an individual, but they get what they give. If you're polite, I'll be polite. If you're rude, I can be rude with the best of them. By the way? You're being rude, so you've given me the same right. Settle down. You sound like you're about to faint.

Apparently, you and a few others here, don't understand what I mean with respecting another person's beliefs. I mean by this, I don't belittle them. I don't patronize them. I try to understand their p.o.v. I don't think I'm smarter because I'm a Christian, and I don't' think they're smarter because they're Atheists.

I view your Christianity like I view alchemy, divining, and ghost stories.

More power to you.

I respect people as individuals, but I refuse to respect your beliefs. They are not entitled to respect.

Unlike your attitude, I believe respect is given freely, or it's earned. I've never, EVER, assumed I'm entitled to your respect just because I'm a Christian. That's what YOU make of it.

Once again, I'll repeat: Live and let live, but do so with respect for other points of view and other faiths and beliefs. How is this a bad thing?

[skepticscott]

55. Still waiting to hear

how your labeling of some Xstians as "fanatics" constitutes respecting their beliefs and their point of view.

[LiberalAndProud]

36. I understand.

It seems to me that you are using the same broad brush to paint us.

I know many Christians who practice quietly, who follow Christ's exhortation to pray in the closet. It's hard for me to paint all Christians with that particular color because of men like Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, John Hagee, Rick Joyner, Pat Robertson, etc. And that is only the broadcast face of Christianity. We are inundated here in the states with door knockers and flyers proselytizing for Christ, with invitations to tent meetings, revivals and end-times seminars.

Would you have me paint you the color of their brush? I think I prefer not to.

[Humanist_Activist]

5. The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong...

Its sometimes far too easy to generalize and to also misconstrue what is being said with what you THINK is being said.

In addition, there is only one thing all atheists have in common, a lack of belief in deities, you seemed to have completely ignored the body of my post completely. The entire point of my post is that you CANNOT pigeonhole atheists or theists into anything. Frankly speaking, I think you lie about your last statement, considering your complete dismissal and ridicule of my "opinion".

This is something I'm not surprised by, its typical of Christians(see what I did there?). As far as according beliefs with respect, why should any of us do so? We certainly don't when it comes to political beliefs, and we certainly don't when it comes to hate groups, why should any other belief be different?

Beliefs come in a large variety, and not all of them can be considered equal. All of us judge them by what are our own standards, even you. Not only do I disagree with your last statement, it is an impossible statement to follow.

ON EDIT: In addition, not all Christians agree that what you said about evangelizing and trying to convert others is contrary to Christ's teachings, in fact they believe the exact opposite, generalizations work both ways, and apparently you don't respect these Christians' beliefs.

[BlueCaliDem]

15. Well written, personal opinion. Largely generalized, and I disagree with just about everything

you wrote, but it's well written.

Frankly speaking, I think you lie about your last statement, considering your complete dismissal and ridicule of my "opinion".

Frankly speaking, I really don't care. I'll respect your right to believe however you want, and I respect your choice to believe in whatever way you wish, but that doesn't mean I completely lose my identity and bow down before you and agree to everything you espouse. I do have an opinion of my own.

[Humanist_Activist]

19. I don't know what you are really talking about, you confuse respecting the right to have differing..

beliefs from respecting the beliefs themselves, you confuse opinions with facts, and then you fail to follow the very thing you are espouse in the first post on this thread. You are dishonest, and I would dare say you make a poor Christian.

[skepticscott]

10. No, Christians DON'T understand that

to respect other people's faiths is in accordance with Christ's teachings. Every Xstian group that engages in missionary work to convert people to Christianity, in accordance with Christ's mandate to "make disciples of all nations" (and there are plenty of them, including the billion member Catholic church) is in violation of that principle. Are you going to tell us that these are not "real Christians"?

And btw, how is calling someone a Christian fanatic "respecting their faith"? What entitles you to make the distinction between "fanatics" and Christians like you?

[BlueCaliDem]

11. First off, it's Christian, NOT "Xstian"

It wasn't Jesus the Xste.

If I were convinced you were asking out of interest, and not to patronize me, I'd be more inclined to answer.

Try again.

[skepticscott]

13. I use both

Sue me. That you would dodge the substantive objections to your post because you're in a teensy snit about my usage tells me that you have no rational answer to any of it. Not that I had any hope that you would, so you're free to sit there and hold your breath until you turn blue for all I care. Your claim has been debunked for the benefit of sensible and rational people here, not for yours.

[BlueCaliDem]

16. And you're wrong.

There's no reason and no basis for the using "Xstrian" in place of Christian other than to show snide disrespect for the Christian faith. There's an important and grounded reason why it's called Christendom and Christianity.

But thank you for confirming my original statement. Just to refresh your memory, the original statement you've responded so passionately to is:

From what I've seen with Atheists, they're as dogmatic as many a religioso. They're as defensive, offensive, and even patronizing when it comes to propagating their core beliefs, or ridiculing other's core beliefs, as any Catholic or Muslim, even.

Your comments more than prove the above.

It's true my claim would've been debunked had you not lost your cool, but you did when you indulged in your own little snit. So, I should thank you for confirming my above quoted statement, and for having proved me completely right.

Thank you for your help.

[skepticscott]

22. Do you go ballistic

over people (including Xstians) using "X-mas" instead of Christ-mas? Get over yourself.

And the statement I responded to was "Christians understand this is in accordance with Christ's teachings; to respect other people's faiths" That was explicitly clear in my post #10, so why you're engaging in such blatant intellectual dishonesty by pretending otherwise, is something I'll leave you to explain (though with no hope that you'll turn honest on me). If you're wondering why people like you are treated with disdain and contempt here, that's one reason (of many).

As far as your bogus claim about Christians respecting other people's faiths, if you think that the tone of my response makes you correct all of a sudden, then you're just engaging in more delusional thinking. The truth or falsity of such a proposition does not depend on the attitude, demeanor or personality of the person making it, something everyone but Christian tone-trolls here grasp rather easily. Until you have some substantive, non-whiny response, consider your rather silly contention sunk.

BTW, still waiting for your explanation of how calling some Christians "fanatics" is respectful (pot, meet kettle). Exactly what does "fanatic" mean in that context? Are they TOO Christian? Or do you arrogantly presume that YOUR way of practicing Christianity is better and more correct than theirs? Since you're the one pontificating about respect, why should anyone take you seriously until you explain that?

[BlueCaliDem]

34. You ASSume too much, Scottie.

Take a chill pill already. You're beginning to froth at the lips.

What happened? Was some Christian mean to you as a boy? Is that why you hate Christians so much? Should I pity you now?

BTW, still waiting for your explanation of how calling some Christians "fanatics" is respectful (pot, meet kettle).

You'll get an explanation when you ask NICELY. I know your mother raised you better than how you're acting right now, and I'm pretty sure she taught you that in order to get something you need to ask nicely. Now do it or back off.

[skepticscott]

43. As I said, dear

I could care less if you answer me or not. Your hypocrisy in calling for "respect" for everyone's beliefs while at the same time labeling some Xstians as "fanatics" is out there for everyone to see. Unless you're going to explain, the label of hypocrite stands. Cope with that, and with the fact that whatever you think about atheists' "tone", we are honest about what we profess to respect, in a way that you obviously aren't.

And spare me your bluster and your long-distance psycho-babble. You don't, and won't, know me, and thinking you're going to cow me into silence is even more deluded.

[dmallind]

32. Your lot started the chi-rho abbreviation ya know. nt

[Goblinmonger]

59. It comes from a shorthand that early christians used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

[immoderate]

62. The abbreviation of Xtian for Christian goes back to the Greek spelling...

Christ, in Greek starts with "chi" which looks like "X". It's long been used by Christians. Some snooty ones have chosen to derogate it. Some others wear it as a chip on the shoulder. You think old JC really resents it?

--imm

[localroger]

21. The atheists you see are irascible for a reason

Most atheists do not broadcast their beliefs, and have good reasons not to since in many areas of life there is a lot of hostility to atheism. The atheists who make you aware of them are by definition the ones that have decided the issue is important enough to push. Judging all atheists by the ones who appear on talk shows and rent billboards is like judging all Christians by the ones who knock on your door while you're cooking dinner.

[BlueCaliDem]

46. Atheists live openly and free in the Netherlands.

Aside from the very sensitive ones on this board, I haven't met one in my life here in SoCal.

But I've lived among them in Holland, and they're not at all shy to broadcast their beliefs - or attack those who choose to believe in that imaginary friend in the clouds. Believe me.

I base my opinion on the experiences I've had over my lifetime with Atheists who are allowed to be open and proud of their beliefs, and I can tell you, I see NO difference between their attitude toward those who choose to believe and the attitude of religious people toward them.

I repeat: Live and let live, but do so with respect for other points of view and other faiths and beliefs.

As a Christian I may add: Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

[skepticscott]

49. Fact-based points of view

have to EARN respect. I don't respect points of view that are as baseless as belief in the god of the Bible, while at the same time respecting people's right to hold them.

Either the "god" that Christians worship exists (outside of their imagination) or he doesn't. Either atheists are wrong, or Christians are seriously deluded. To want it both ways is simply intellectual cowardice.

And do you completely and sincerely "respect" the points of view of those Christian "fanatics you mentioned? Do you agree that their beliefs and their way of practicing Christianity are every bit as true, valid and worthy of admiration as yours?

[SoutherDem]

26. I am an Atheist

If I have a religion it is Science.

As to some Atheist being as dogmatic as Christians or Muslims, it depends on what you mean by dogmatic.

I live in the "Bible belt" and most Christians here don't follow your actions of not trying to convince others of their point of view. In fact most Christians here would question your faith because you DON"T evangelize your faith. Christ commanded "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20)".

I don't go door to door, I don't hand out flyers, I don't work Atheism into almost every conversation I have. But, I know many who do just that when it come to Christianity. The most I do to spread my "faith" is I have a bumper sticker on my car, it is "Richard Dawkins Foundation for Science and Reason" and I have had people leave notes on my windshield, telling me I am going to Hell, although I would never do so to someone who has a bumper sticker stating their Christian faith telling them they are wrong.

When a Christian visits my house to "tell me the good news" I tell them up front that I am an Atheist. This sometimes ends the visit at once, but sometimes they continue to "share" pulling out their leather bound Bible, flipping through showing me the proof. What they don't get is I don't believe in their god, I don't believe in any god. If I don't believe in their god, why do they think I am going to believe the book this god was to author?

I do not hide my Atheism. It is part of my life, so of course I do let some people know that I am an Atheist, most people know me for sometime before they will know.

I feel the 1st amendment both grants the freedom to believe or not-believe any faith you like, and protects us from the government endorsing one specific faith. Most people I know feel the 1st amendment grants them the freedom of "their" religion, while shielding them all others. They feel it give them the freedom to tell everyone what they believe, sometimes in a defensive, offensive and even patronizing way while ridiculing those who disagree when and wherever they wish to do so, while out right prevents them from even the knowledge that other don't agree. I once was told that the first amendment protect them from having to hear that I am an Atheist, their exact words were "You don't have the right to say that" remember they started the conversation about religion in the first place.

I have often had people feel I shouldn't even tell anyone that I am an Atheist, as if the constitution doesn't apply to me, while they will make their Religion part of their constant conversations, which is protected by the same constitution.

I also, see things like, wanting creationism taught in school, prayer in school, the 10 commandments in the court house, public funding for their causes and laws which can only be defended on Christian teachings. We have many billboards along the highways and interstates which are Christian based, which is of course their 1st amendment right, yet when an Atheist group wanted to put up a billboard in the Birmingham area they were denied by the billboard company because it would offend their other customers, when one did get put up in another area in my state it caused a great out cry by the Christian community because that infringed on their 1st amendment rights.

So, from my point of view here in Alabama is I don't see dogmatic non-christian, Muslims, or Atheist, but I do see many dogmatic Christians and Christian-fanatics (and I do realize there is a difference).

I am glad you are like you are and am glad you took time to share your point of view. I agree, "Beliefs and spirituality is a personal choice, and that's how it should be. And that's how it should remain." I also, subscribe to the "live and let live" position. Respect my choice and I'll happily respect yours, and live and let live, but do so with respect for other points of view and other faiths and beliefs. However, as to "ridicule my choice(s), and I can't take you seriously", I find it hard to not take those who are pushing their faith seriously when my life if affected from that faith both directly and indirectly.

One last thing, I don't know how the Jehovah Witnesses are considered where you live, but most Christian religions here consider them to be a cult. Oddly though of those who have knocked on my door to share their faith in their god, the only visitor to ever ask me to explain why I am an Atheist and took time for us to have an intelligent conversation on the subject was a Jehovah Witness, we are now friends and he now visits to just say hi and see how I am doing, most of the time now religion doesn't even come into the conversation.

Thank you again for sharing your feelings and allowing me to share mine. I wish there were more like you!

[dmallind]

31. Irony ain't just about ferrous metals.....

When you have THIS CLAIM:

I never, EVER ridicule another person's beliefs and faith.

Not even a handful of lines from THIS:

defensive, offensive, and even patronizing when it comes to propagating their core beliefs

I have to wonder what ridicule is to you if calling somebody defensive offensive and patronizing isn't it..

[BlueCaliDem]

39. I am not "ridiculing". Sheesh.

I was making a point; one you, and many others, have been so kind to prove.

I should have added, Atheists are also extremely sensitive. I can't understand why that is, but look at the responses to this one posting, and I dare you to deny it.

[skepticscott]

45. Yes, we're sensitive....

to nonsense, foolishness, hypocrisy, intellectual dishonesty, delusional thinking, and falsehoods spread about atheism. It seems you'd like us to just be quiet about any of that, but don't hold your breath. Some of us happen to think those sorts of things shouldn't be allowed to pass unchallenged. If we don't respond with enough meekness and deference to please you, tough.

[dmallind]

60. You condescending, belittling sociopath

I'm not ridiculing. Sheesh. I'm just making a point.

[saras]

4. Yep - religion is a social structure to contain spiritual & ethical experience or teachings

This is why atheists attend Unitarian Universalist churches. Not to push UUs (though I happen to be one, and my partner's parents were, proudly identifying as secular humanists), but one way of looking at them is that they're a place for people of any religion, including none, who want to focus on the universalist or social justice aspects of their beliefs or philosophies, and practice them with people of differing philosophies.

Some people like ritual, trappings, and shared social experiences. It's too bad there are so often barriers of belief to accessing these, but it was probably easier when the belief was farther distant from any supporting or contradicting evidence.

As for astrology, I know more than one person who disbelieves in it, intellectually understands the lack of support for it, but practices it anyways because it works, well enough for others to spontaneously offer them money. I've known others who liked it, believed in it, wanted to do it, but couldn't get it to work worth a damn, even for themselves. Go figure.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. I wouldn't confine it to social experiences, plenty of religious people....

practice their religion in private, due to either their religious beliefs or practicality.

[dimbear]

8. Great post. And wrt horoscopes, here's the theory.....

Back in the day many accepted that souls descend down through the various heavenly layers, passing thru the spheres of the seven planets and being influenced by each in turn. Then when you died the process went backwards.

In at least one mithraeum there were special spiritual doors symbolizing that journey, which led to blank walls.
Marked entrance and exit.

You could go out on a clear night and see those souls descend.

It was a shock when people discovered meteorites centuries later, tho.

[Humanist_Activist]

9. True, I just used it as an example of an irrational belief, could have used crystal healing...

beliefs in psychics, dousing rods, etc.

[_ed_]

28. The bottom line is that

some humans believe in things without proper factual evidence. Other humans do not accept conclusions about reality and / or matter without proper factual evidence. You're either in one camp or the other. You either apply reasoned inquiry to the natural world or you don't.

[LiberalAndProud]

33. I have a question.

Why do some of us use initial caps for the word "Atheist" if it isn't a religion? I am an atheist. I don't think my atheism is religious, but intellectual. If it is not religion, why would the word be capitalized? I use the word to describe myself. The word atheist should no more be capitalized than the word vegetarian, in my opinion.

[Humanist_Activist]

42. I don't know, personal preference, some philosophies are capitalized too. n/t

[Odin2005]

56. Good post! I'm an Atheist, and I consider myself a UUer and a Buddhist.

I don't believe in an afterlife or reincarnation, nor do I believe in a "spiritual realm" separate from the physical world. But I have a deep reverence for the majesty and wonder of the cosmos.