Why does the mere existence of atheists so trouble some people?

[MineralMan]

I've always wondered about that one. We atheists make up an incredibly small minority of humans, and yet, so many seem frightened by our existence. Mostly, atheists keep to themselves and don't usually draw attention to their non-belief. What is there to say about not believing something, really?

And yet, over and over again, atheists are held up as some sort of threat. A threat against what? If a person believes that some supernatural entity exists and is responsible for the existence of everything else, it would seem to me that would be a powerful enough belief to make a tiny group of atheists pretty irrelevant. It doesn't seem to work that way, though.

How is one's belief threatened by someone else's non-belief? If a belief shared by literally billions of people is threatened by a few people who don't share it, then how compelling can that belief be, really? If you believe that your deity is all-powerful, then what possible effect can a few people who disregard that deity have on anything at all? An all-powerful deity would have no problem just getting rid of those few non-believers, you'd think.

I'm an atheist. Despite my good opinion about myself, I'm pretty much a non-entity on the planet. I influence few, and don't try to influence more than a few. I don't mind if others believe stuff I find impossible to believe. That's nothing to me. That's their deal. I'm not concerned about life beyond my lifetime. I'm perfectly happy to have been born and I won't be around to be sad when I'm gone. I'm just another mammal on the planet, among countless billions of mammals. It's interesting, this life, but that's a personal perspective - the only kind I can have.

Tell you what: If my non-belief causes you concern, then just ignore it. I'll gladly return the favor. I won't tell you what to think, and you can not try to tell me what to believe. I'll continue to do the stuff I do, all of which is harmless to you, and I'll be glad if you'll do the same. If you don't pray for me, I won't think for you. It all should work out just fine. How does that sound?

[Xipe Totec]

1. Because it proves there is no God?

I mean, if there is a God, why don't he smite them? :evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

3. Nah. It doesn't prove anything. And it doesn't matter.

Why would a supposed deity bother with those who don't even believe it exists? Seems to me that an all-powerful entity like that would have a pretty strong shrug reflex. :shrug:

[skepticscott]

32. Either that, or

he'd just smite us all...one big group auto-da-fe, and he wouldn't have to listen to his followers whine about us.

[MineralMan]

34. Well, there is that, I suppose. Of course, since I don't believe

that such an entity exists, I'm not all that bothered with worry about it.

[Why Syzygy]

2. Atheists

Atheists posting in a RELIGION and THEOlogy forum are 'keep to myself'? ahem . Surely you can see that is not a true statement.
Why are y'all here if not to draw attention to yourselves?

[darkstar3]

5. I, for one, refuse to be silent about religious matters being injected into my daily life.

I also answer threads like "Question for atheists."

I don't intend to sit down and shut up because I don't pray to the same deity as the majority, and anyone who wishes me to do so can pound sand.

[MrDiaz]

19. Well I am sure,

You respect the right's of Chirstians to do the same, and be vocal about their beliefs?

[MineralMan]

22. Sure. That's no problem, as long as I'm free to leave the room

where they're being vocal about it. Vocalize all you like, but please leave the door unlocked. I'll be leaving.

[MrDiaz]

28. what place

have you been where you were FORCED to listen Christian's beliefs, and were unable to leave? Just Curious

[MineralMan]

31. Hmm...school classrooms? The local city council meeting, where

you don't get to speak at the public hearing unless you have one of the seats in the council chambers. In the state legislature, where a Jewish or Moslem legislator has to listen to some yahoo preaching Jesus. You see, those legislators have a duty to be in the room when the legislature is in session. The jury box, or, for that matter, the witness stand? There are a couple of examples for you. And, before you mention that religion isn't allowed in classrooms, I can tell you that it certainly was when I was in them. We've made some progress in that regard.

[cleanhippie]

69. Anytime there is a prayer at a public meeting.

Or at a high school graduation, or when the 10 commandments are displayed in a public place where I need to conduct business, or when I look at my money, or........

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. Yup. Christians can go pound sand as often as they wish. I won't

Dare interfere

[Silent3]

47. What would make you suggest that any poster here doesn't respect the rights...

...of Christians to speak out and be vocal about their beliefs?

The ridiculous but common confusion between criticizing what a person says and objecting to that person's right to say it?

As an atheist (and many of my fellow atheists would agree) I haven't the slightest problem with Christians speaking out. I don't even have a problem with the fact that some go door-to-door proselytizing (not withstanding showing up at annoying times or being too pushy about it).

My biggest problems with some believers is when then go beyond not respecting my beliefs (or lack thereof) and cease to respect the rights of myself and others to believe differently, when they try to enforce their beliefs on myself and others, especially when they don't respect separation of church and state and attempt to co-opt the power of government to promote their agenda.

As long as my rights (my REAL rights, not some imagined right to blissfully go through life insulated from challenges and criticisms) and the right of others are respected, believers can say and do what they want, and I'll comment, argue, criticize, and sometimes even mock as much as I want.

[MineralMan]

10. Oh, dear...that's very interesting.

I'm here because people are talking about atheists. If they weren't, then I wouldn't bother. Why are religionists here if not to draw attention to themselves? Why are any of us on DU at all? I find religion and theology very interesting. I've been studying it for over 40 years, trying to figure out why people believe that stuff. But, then, I'm interested in lots of things. I'm interested in astronomy, even though I am not an astronomer. I'm interested in fine automobiles, even though I drive a 20-year-old Volvo.

An interest in a subject does not imply anything other than that interest. Surely you can see that is an accurate statement.

Would you rather I stayed out of this forum? Why? It is here for the discussion OF religion, not to further the causes of religion. Truly.

[darkstar3]

11. +1

I wanted to work something about "interest" and "discussion" into my post, but failed on the eloquence. Thank you for posting this.

[Tikki]

4. I could have written that myself...you did and that is..

excellent..
I do believe, though, we are down near the
bottom of their list of things to worry about.


Tikki

[MineralMan]

14. Well, I think we should be at the bottom of that list, for sure.

Oh, well...

[Avalux]

6. Fundie Christians think atheists are immoral and damned.

Because how, if you don't believe in god, can you be moral/ethical and live a good life? If there's nothing else to look forward to after this? If you don't have god up there watching your every move, ready to punish you if you misbehave? Or worse, the devil waiting for you in hell?

They simply don't think a person can be good without believing in THEIR god.

[darkstar3]

9. Hence the famous billboard with the kid and the gun.

[MineralMan]

12. Hey! I behave myself because I hate getting the "look" from my

mother. Even though she's 87 and lives 2000 miles away, I can still see the "look" when I've disappointed her. Makes me feel like a shitheel, so I try not to do stuff that would offend her if she knew about it. She's an atheist, too.

[grilled onions]

7. I Also Have Wondered About That

YOu would think they would have the strength to handle a handful who do not think as they do. It's bad enough many of them can't stand other religious people who don't attend the same kind of church.temple--whatever. We should be the ones afraid that Hell is waiting with a gaping hole ready to swallow us in. We should be afraid of being turned into pillars of salt or whatever other forms of torture they believe in. One almost feels like a leper. They could be talking to you one minute but when they discover what you DON'T believe i n they migrate to the other side of the planet. As an outspoken child I lost many friends when they would tell mama that I did not go to any church. If their strength is so strong why did they fear that one mear child could corrupt theirs????

[MineralMan]

15. Those are all very good questions. I don't have any answer

for them, but they're good questions, nevertheless. Thanks for your post.

[Guilded Lilly]

8. My guess...

those who are not confident in their personal beliefs see atheism as a symbol of what they actually may fear about their own brains and hearts. If they were truly comfortable with their beliefs, it would make no difference whatsoever what anyone else thought.

As with most things, it is always about FEAR.

Peace,
spiritual, not religious,
Lilly (smile)

[MineralMan]

13. Well, that's an interesting hypothesis.

Could be, I suppose.

[emilyg]

16. Why does the existence of

Christians trouble so many on DU?

[MineralMan]

21. But it doesn't, you see.

I've met no atheists in my life who mind if someone is a Christian. That's not the issue at all. Many of us mind when Christians want to make sure we become Christians, too, or at least follow the arbitrary rules they think are important. Now that's troublesome. But mere Christianity? It's irrelevant, actually. My concern about what someone believes is non-existent. My concern about people's behavior, as it affects me (or others), is very strong.

Do you wish to make me a Christian? No? Do you wish to make others become Christians? No? Then your Christianity is a matter of no interest whatsoever to this atheist.

[skepticscott]

30. Don't you have more elevated things to do

than stick around and answer responses to your OP?

[MineralMan]

33. I beg your pardon. I would think it would be my decision whether

something warranted my attention or not, wouldn't you? After all, I began the discussion. Wouldn't it be rude of me not to be here to participate in it?

Elevated? I'm actually in my office in the basement of my home, so I'm hardly elevated.

[skepticscott]

37. Sorry, should have put the irony tag on

I want just observing that others in this forum seem to regard answering responses to their own OPs as beneath them.

[MineralMan]

39. Ah, sorry. I wondered about that, but you just never know.

[emilyg]

36. I'm Christian. Was raised to live and let live.

[MineralMan]

41. That's very good. An excellent philosophy, I think.

Thanks!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Proof of evolution (of thought).

It's as simple as that.

[MineralMan]

25. Yes, but many people who have religious beliefs have no

difficulty with evolution of any kind. Religion doesn't necessarily mean that one defies all logical thought.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

78. What about the initial premise?

[nichomachus]

18. It's just insecurity

People who hold unprovable and sometimes wacky religious beliefs need everyone else to be on board. Otherwise, they get nervous.

[MineralMan]

26. An interesting way to look at it, for sure.

[BR_Parkway]

20. It proves they lack the faith they claim to have. Let's face it, the human animal

has a herd instinct, wants to be accepted, uses church for business connections (or political office) - but very few of the self proclaimed "faithful" actually are. They sleep around on their spouses, pad the expense account, fudge on their taxes and everything else the non-believers do.

What scares them is that the atheist is taking the stand that it's all a fairy tale, there is no super being who will smote (smite?) you down with a bolt of lightning if you were to utter that fact out loud. But way too many "believers" don't know for sure - and it's our certainty that mocks their uncertainty. And it pisses them off that they don't have the same courage as you do to proclaim it, they simply hide behind what everyone else in their circle believes.

As for those who truly, truly do believe based on what they've studied and decided out of something besides fear of pissing off the Big Guy? They generally don't feel threatened by a non-believer as long as one is respectful of the other. Their sureness doesn't depend on you thinking the exact same thing to reinforce what they think.

It's not like me not believing is going to keep them out of heaven if I turn out to be wrong.

It's like the cult of deniers about climate change - they are the ones who have a frothy, spitting argument with you that there's no such thing. But if they're right, it's really no big deal, so no need to get worked up like they do. If anyone should be screaming that they need to listen and learn, it's our side of that one - because if we're right, everyone's got a great big problem.

[raccoon]

84. Thank you!

"but very few of the self proclaimed "faithful" actually are. They sleep around on theirspouses, pad the expense account, fudge on their taxes and everything else the non-believers do."

I was raised in the Bible belt, raised to believe religious = good, Christian = good.

Even now (and this annoys me) I have to remind myself that religious and/or Xian people are just as likely as the next person to do everything else the non-believers do.

[get the red out]

23. It's not just atheists

It's anyone who doesn't walk the standard religion line. People feel threatened by what they consider different from themselves, feel like the "other" must surely want to stamp out what is dear to them. I don't consider myself an atheist but I am still "the other" to the VAST majority of people around me. It is common to want to fight over beliefs and religious beliefs take that to extremes because so many people feel the fate of their soul rides on their ability to fight that battle.

Just my take, probably not worth much. I have to admit that in some venues I go looking for a fight myself. I don't take the "sensitivities" of my extremist Christian FB "friends" under much consideration when I post the truth of their faction's war on women. I tend to not care about their worries for my eternal soul (or their damnation of it).

[Cronus Protagonist]

24. They must put a finger in the dyke lest the dyke fails and damn them all

Monotheism requires a dam to keep back the secular and other deist "waters". Atheists are weaknesses in that dam, ergo they must be rooted out and removed or converted.

[MineralMan]

29. Sure. But why? Why would they bother?

I'm hardly a threat to their beliefs. Unless I'm asked, I don't volunteer my lack of belief. If asked, I'll say that I'm an atheist. It's a little different on a discussion forum, though. Here, a variety of ideas gets presented.

[immoderate]

27. It's mostly monotheistic religions.

If there's only one god. Everybody has to worship that god.

Except the Jews, who while "inventing" monotheism, didn't "sell" it, hence there are less of them than atheists.

Buddhists and Pagans I engage don't seem to care much. And it's hard to generalize about the assortment of voodoo-to-body snatcher types you occasionally run into.

The one question that always stops them is:
Do you think that everything you believe is true?

--imm

[MineralMan]

38. Well, most Buddhists don't really deal much with deities.

It's a very interesting religion, I think. The whole wheel of existence thing is a very nice puzzle to consider. I've just seen too many animals, including humans, die to really get behind the very, very temporary nature of life. I don't see the utility or function of an extended existence beyond an individual life.

[immoderate]

45. I think Buddhists offer a framework for dealing with sentience.

There are some Buddhist "divisions" that do have some deities, though I'm not really knowledgeable.

I don't observe any Buddhist practices or supernatural beliefs. But I understand a dynamic view, withholding judgment, how concepts create their opposites, and that "the universe" is illusion. I use that stuff every day.



--imm

[obxhead]

35. I asked a very religious friend this once.

She was constantly trying to convert me.

Her answer was the standard "I'm trying to save your soul."

In the end after a long conversation it became clear that the real reason for all the preaching was my atheism made her doubt her own faith ever so slightly. Here she was praying constantly, spreading the word of god, attending church and donating to it, and in the end her family had troubles, her life was not grand, and mine was just dandy in her eyes.

Often times she felt superior to me because of her belief, yet enraged that my non believing ass should have it so well. (I didn't have it so grand, but that's not how she saw it)

I never understood it and we have both moved on from the friendship. I never tried to convert her, but she certainly spent enough of her time trying to convert me.

Like you said. "If you don't pray for me, I won't think for you." I've tried to keep it that way ever since that broken friendship.

[GeorgeGist]

40. If I was God ...

I'd be sympathetic to you because true ignorance is an excuse.


At least you don't pretend to know me just so you can get away with quoting me saying and doing things I never did.

[MineralMan]

42. I do not believe I have ever speculated about what I'd do if I

were some sort of all-powerful entity. The very idea is frightening. Yikes!

[LeftishBrit]

54. There is said to be an epitaph in an old churchyard...

Here I lie, Martin Elginrodde,
Have mercy on my soul, O God,
As I would do, were I Lord God,
And Thou wert Martin Elginrodde.

[MineralMan]

56. How excellent an epitaph!

Thank you for posting that. I'm copying it into my little file of excellent statements. :applause:

[okasha]

63. That's in Scotland.

And I think it actually is in Elgin.

[mzmolly]

44. I've no idea.

I'm much more troubled by the use of "God" to oppress and even harm, other human beings.

[kstewart33]

46. Doesn't that work both ways?

My experience is that some atheists are very bothered by religious people (I am not religious), some are annoyed and even angry about it.

Not drawing any conclusions but that's been my experience with some atheists.

[MineralMan]

51. Well, I think it's more that some atheists, including myself,

are bothered by the actions of some religious people. I don't think any of us, or at least very few, trouble ourselves about people's personal beliefs. What you believe is none of my concern. If you try to make it my concern, then that's an action, and I may object to an action. It's illogical to object to someone's belief, really. How would I even know?

Actions are worth being bothered about, not beliefs.

[immoderate]

59. Well, depends on what they do...

I generally don't care what people believe, because I know each is unique, and their view of reality will not be congruent with any other. I rarely ask people what they believe (unless I expect something really weird.)

If I'm at a church, (it happens) I generally have nothing to say. If they come to an atheist event, or are in some way evangelizing at public expense, or confront my sensibilities, then I'm bothered. In which case they may get a reaction.

I try not to be uncivil.O8)

--imm

[K8-EEE]

48. Because it's like "the emperor has no clothes"

The more compliance is expected, the more people "believe" or at least go through the motions that they do....

I was a church-going Catholic for over 30 years and when people from my old parish ask me why I don't go to church any more and I tell them I don't believe in it anymore, they get pissed off!! I think it raises their own doubts, and also, maybe they are a little jealous because in a lot of families people just aren't ALLOWED to not be "a believer" without being punished for it.

[Fly by night]

49. Most of the atheists I know don't feel the need to discuss it. The few that do ...

... seem to want to discuss nothing else.

Like anyone obsessed with an issue that sets them apart, to the exclusion of anything else, that can be irritating.

Case in point: In 2004, a group of us met through a Moveon.org meet-up for the first time to discuss ways we could get more involved with the 2004 election. Our host, who seemed like an otherwise nice man, kept interjecting atheism into our discussion so persistently that, finally, a few of us asked whether we should find somewhere else to carry on the conversation we had come together to discuss. It finally shut the man up, but instead of participating in our political discussion, he just sulked.

It's like a family joke of ours: Whenever I call my brother to bring him up to date on my news, I end with "Well, enough about me. Now tell me what you think about me."

Same thing, though in that case, it is meant to reflect some self-awareness that talking only about oneself or one's differences is off-putting.

I am an animist, BTW. But I only bring that up in appropriate arenas, which are few and far between.

Just my 20 cents worth.

[MineralMan]

53. Yes, your example is one at which I'd be annoyed, too.

It was an interference with the purpose of that meeting. I'd have joined with those who requested that he drop the topic. Actions may be of concern. beliefs shouldn't be. Some folks are pretty single-minded about one thing or another. I think we generally all agree that's boring.

[darkstar3]

57. Curiosity:

How does one interject atheism into an unrelated conversation?

[okasha]

64. Example:

"Thank God a nutcase like Huckabee's out of running."

"There is no God," or "You realize your religion was all stolen from other cultures."

I've seen that type of comment any number of times at DU.

That's one way it's done.

[darkstar3]

65. And with that "thank God", religion was interjected into the conversation.

So the people who disagree with your interjection of God into the conversation should remain silent?

[okasha]

67. How does it harm the listener?

Do you feel obliged to comment on every aspect of another person's life that comes up in conversation? What about someone's diet? Or sex life? Are those areas you feel free to comment on without invitation?

[darkstar3]

68. Why is it necessary in the conversation at all?

If we're talking about religion, then there's no "interjection" involved. But if we're talking about electing a president, or the weather, then there's no need to bring your God into the conversation. If you do feel free to do so, then I should feel just as free to point out the frivolity of the inclusion.

Remember, the person who rebukes your usage of religious language, however mildly, is probably just as annoyed at you for bringing it up in the first place as you are at them for correcting you. Either leave your religious language in the church, or get used to people in a free society commenting negatively upon it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

TL;DR version: In this case, your silence will buy theirs.

[okasha]

74. Not my usage. I'm a Pagan.

And it does not bother me in the least when a Christian or Jew or Muslim thanks the god s/he worships for whatever that person feels grateful for. I'm a vegetarian, but I manage not to go all PETA on a friend who orders a hamburger. I can carry on a conversation with a Republican without calling him or her an ass for voting as s/he does. Most of us manage to tolerate things in others that we don't do ourselves or believe in ourselves. It's simply a matter of courtesy and respect for the other as a human being.

Frankly, I don't see any difference between "There's no God" in response to "Thank God" and "Do you know Jesus?" in response to "Happy Holidays." Both are rude to the point of being asinine, and both seem to be the behavior of fanatics.

[darkstar3]

75. It is just as rude to inject God into conversation as it is to correct those who do so.

Furthermore, it is asinine to suggest that those who bring God into the conversation in the first place should be immune from hearing another point of view simply because you that expressing it is rude.

People and ideas are different. Respecting a person does not extend to respecting their ideas. If you believe that you feel differently, just dive through R/T and find a few threads about Mormonism or Scientology. See how you feel, while reading those threads, about the people who don't show respect to those cults. Then go over to GD and see if you feel that people are disrespecting ideas, or people, when they criticize the stupidity of conservatism.

The idea that religion should somehow be granted a higher place in discussion than other voluntary affiliations is fallacious.

[okasha]

77. Ah, well. There's no discouraging a proseletyzer.

n/t

[rrneck]

50. They cannot see

something in you that they think is indespensible in themselves.

And there is an ecclesiastical corporation somewhere profiting from that blindness.

[MineralMan]

58. Interesting. I'll have to think about that one a bit.

I rarely think about the role of organization and hierarchy in religion. Perhaps I should think more about that. Cui bono?

[rrneck]

62. Seems that way to me.

Imagine an inexhaustible natural resource that could be exploited with minimal capital investment. Plus, a spike in supply can be engineered almost at will. A substance that is tasteless, odorless, and produced internally by the addicts that can't live without it. And to top it off, without it we couldn't consider ourselves human so it can never be outlawed or even regulated.

Human emotion.

[progressoid]

52. An incredibly small minority of humans?

Don't sell us short. Our numbers rival and exceed those of many "major" faiths in the US.

[MineralMan]

55. Yes. 1.6% is a tiny minority. hardly worth mentioning.

That some religious belief systems have even fewer adherents doesn't increase the percentage. In fact, look at all the animosity toward Muslims in America, despite their very, very small numbers. That makes no sense, either.

[okasha]

66. That's an informative table.

It certainly puts paid to the notion that evangelicals/fundamentalist make up the majority of American Christians or even American Protestants.

[skepticscott]

73. Last time I checked

26.3 was a majority of 51.3. But if you do your math by some other way of knowing, please enlighten us.

And where do you suppose the 40-50% of all Americans who believe in Biblical literalist creationism come from?

[okasha]

76. My bad on the Protestants. I misread the number.

On the other hand, it still holds that they're only about a third of all Christians.

As to your question--haven't the foggiest, but it's fairly clear they aren't mainline Protestants, Catholics or Orthodox. I wouldn't be surprised if a good many of them weren't in the "unaffiliated" category, people who were raised Southern Baptist or Church of Christ (the sort with no piano) or Assembly of God or some such but don't belong to a church or actively practice any religion yet still retain some of their Sunday school lessons and a vague identity as "Christian." And there's the occasional person who claims to belong to a faith but has no idea what the faith teaches on the matter. I had a Catholic student once who thought the Catholic Church teaches creationism. :shrug:

[skepticscott]

81. The problem with that table is

that it isn't clear at all. As you point out, it only reflects how religious affiliations break down in a broad way, but says nothing about the beliefs and attitudes of individuals within those affiliations (which are certainly not monolithic, though more so in some cases than other). The Catholic church likes to see itself referred to in a monolithic way, but there is obviously a wide range of attitudes towards things like abortion, gay rights and religious control over government and the law within that one category of the table. A certain slice of that Catholic percentage (couldn't say how much, but not zero) consists of ultra-conservative, Mel-Gibsonesque types. Whether or not you label that slice specifically as "fundamentalist" or "evangelical", they have many similar effects on society. It's also not clear where certain other groups fall with the divisions of the table. Are all Lutherans included in the "mainline" category, for example, or do they lump the ultra-conservative Wisconsin Synod Lutherans in with the evangelicals? Ditto for the Baptists...are they all grouped as mainline (as some probably are), even though a lot of the large Southern Baptist Convention has social and political attitudes more in line with what would be considered evangelical? Also the same for what are designated historical black churches. It's unclear just how many highly conservative religious people that encompasses.

[frebrd]

60. An enthusiastic K&R!

:fistbump:

[damntexdem]

61. Because differences in belief trouble them.

And because their faith is so weak that they cannot abide that someone else totally lacks belief. After all, if everybody believed it, then it would obviously be true -- like when everyone believed that the sun went around the earth.

[struggle4progress]

70. People very often can't handle disagreement. My political yardsigns are often stolen from my yard

in the election season. If I hand out issue literature at a table, I keep my eye on it, since I've regularly had some schmuck come by, grab handfuls of the lit and dump it into a nearby trashbin. Leafletting on streets, I've had people call the police on me, complaining I was doing illegal stuff I wasn't doing

Maybe if you get out more and try more stuff, you'll get a fuller picture of the infantile intolerance of some of the American public

[rug]

71. Frightened? Threat?

What people are you talking about?

[dimbear]

72. It is because the worst rascals are atheists. This is implied by the rhyme scheme.

It mostly works in France and Spain, where the really hopeless hardcases are described as

Sans foi, sans loi

(France)

Sin fe, sin ley

(Spain)

You just cannot argue with rhyming couplets like that.

There is a fail in the Germanic languages, which suggests that the rule holds more strongly in Catholic countries.

The best we do in English is "Fearing neither God nor man." A feeble third place.

[iris27]

79. When I was a young "mainstream" Christian with literal fundamentalist beliefs,

the existence of atheists in general didn't bother me in the slightest, except for a vague sense of pity at their eventual eternal doom (Arrogant as fuck? Yes, looking back now, I realize that.)

It was making good friends with someone and then discovering that she was an atheist that got under my skin. Because now it was personal; it was someone I cared about who was going to suffer the torments of hell.

Of course, then I decided to convert her, and while researching the arguments of the big names in Christian apologetics, ended up de-converting myself instead. Whoops. :)

Coming from that background, I've never understood the complacency with which my family has treated my lack of belief. They neither care enough to try to win me back, nor are polite enough to leave it the fuck alone - they make snide comments at holidays and otherwise couldn't care less.

[darkstar3]

80. Because apparently it "crosses the line." I still don't know what "line", but there you go.

[laconicsax]

83. It's the magically moving line.

If you plant a garden and take meticulous care of it, fertilize the soil, use safe traps or natural predators to control insects/slugs/whatever because you know that it's up to you, it's fine. But the moment you imply that you don't believe there's a god who's going to do any of the work for you, your actions are beyond the pale and fly in the face of all that's good and just.

See, it's a magically moving line.

[laconicsax]

82. Because people are hypocrites.

The overwhelming majority of people (I'd say everyone, but prefer to err on the side of safety) are functionally atheists. Not just because they are atheists about 99% of the gods people have ever believed in, but because they live their lives as though there are none.

We atheists admit that we live our lives as though there are no gods and people who do it without realizing get all pissy and talk about how immoral it is to live as they do. For example I look both ways and cross the street without regard for an omnipotent, intercessory, protector god, but to openly admit it pisses some people off.