Theology student gets angry at bush and burns it (starts huge forest fire)

[Ian David]

UK - A student sparked a forest fire that caused 30 million in damages in a Croatian park after he set fire to a thorny bush that kept pricking him on his way to college. (Story continues below)

Jure Erceg, a religious studies student, was jailed for 15 months after a court in Erceg, Croatia, heard that he started the blaze on Velebit mountain in 2007 to seek revenge on the bush.

"It was an accident. I only wanted to get rid of that bush but it spread so quickly I couldn't put it out ...

More:
http://nuttynewswire.com/story/20972.shtml

[ET Awful]

1. He just got mad because it wouldn't talk to him and give him commandments.

:evilgrin:

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Taking irrational revenge on plants you don't like is very Christian

The example comes right from the top:

12The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+11&version=NIV

[laconicsax]

4. But...but...but...

You took that out of context! That part's metaphorical! You just don't understand the Bible!

[rug]

5. Here's the context.

The Withered Fig Tree

20In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"

22"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

Perhaps you'd prefer it rendered in Goa'uld.

[darkstar3]

6. Perhaps you could explain how this particular context

does anything to put the original cursing of the tree in a positive light? By viewing Jesus' cursing of the fig tree in this light, it appears as though Jesus is telling his disciples that they can also curse fig trees into withering if they simply believe enough in the power of prayer.

To repeat, if you believe enough in Jesus, you can curse living things to death. What a message.

[rug]

7. Perhaps I could.

But keep on believing Jesus is commanding his followers to wither fig trees.

[darkstar3]

8. But you aren't.

Is that because "perhaps I could" really means "I can't but don't want to admit it"?

Or maybe it's because you have trouble composing a post that doesn't reek of sarcasm and derision...

[rug]

9. That's right, I'm not.

Maybe it's because your comment deserves nothing more than sarcasm and derision.

[darkstar3]

11. Check your posts,

and you'll find that you started on the sarcasm before I got here.

Meanwhile, all I did was point out that your supposed context seems odd, and you can't or won't answer how it is supposed to shed light on the subject at hand.

[rug]

12. Check #4.

And demure is not your color.

[darkstar3]

14. Nice smokescreen. n/t

[Ian David]

23. I think chrisTians have been cursing my vegetable garden for years. n/t

[rug]

31. No, it's the pagans and their damn wolfbane.

[AlecBGreen]

36. lol

tell me more. Ive got a green thumb, maybe I can help :hi:

[dimbear]

47. Small potatoes unforgiveness. There's some serious unforgiveness available.

GMatt:

14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Now that's some grudge holding. Big time.

[laconicsax]

10. If you have that translation, that'd be neat.

Either way, the text is pretty clear. Jesus curses a fig tree in Mark 11:14. Your 'context' comes later and doesn't change that.

Liberal Christians are always deriding POS clergy and fundies by saying that so-and-so's actions weren't very Christ-like. Here we have a case of someone doing something very Christ-like (if the Gospels are to be believed).

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trotsky]

19. "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him..."

This context actually makes the passage even more bizarre, since schizo Jesus seems to be criticizing his own behavior. Instead of holding a grudge against the fig tree (for not bearing fruit OUT OF SEASON, that stupid tree!!!!), he should have forgiven it as he would be forgiven.

Nice Lord you got there.

[rug]

20. Yes, he should have said "I forgive the fig tree."

Nice mind you got there.

[trotsky]

21. How about just not getting mad at and cursing a plant in the first place?

I love how you ALWAYS evade, attack, and insult when you've lost an argument.

[rug]

22. Why don't you ask him?

I love how you always believe you've made a devastating point. You remind me of a cat with a dustball in his mouth.

[trotsky]

24. You had your chance to explain how the "context" had anything to do with...

the irrationality of cursing a fruit tree out of season. You refused, and instead began your "devastating" one-line attacks, which have always been your standard save-face retreat plan. Watch, you'll follow up this post with another! You can't help yourself! Maybe it'll get deleted too?

You know, maybe I was wrong. I always thought you weren't being very Christ-like in your nasty attacks on others. But this verse perhaps proves that you are far more Christ-like than I imagined.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

25. Be a better trick if the tree had miraculously brought forth figs. Or loaves and fishes. Or wine. nt

[trotsky]

29. No shit.

I mean, if your point is the old trite "with prayer all things are possible" why wouldn't you want to further illustrate it with life and renewal rather than death and destruction?

Help explain why some Christians act the way they do, though.

[Ian David]

30. And supposedly the Holly "tree" was punished as an entire species...

... because supposedly the Romans used its "wood" to make the cross Jesus was supposedly crucified on, IIRC.

[AlecBGreen]

37. I hadnt heard that about Holly

I saw this poem in a friends house so I thought you might be interested in it:

----------------------

http://www.gotquestions.org/legend-dogwood.html

Question: "What is the legend of the dogwood tree? Was the cross Jesus was crucified on made of dogwood?"

Answer: The Bible does not tell us what type of wood the cross Jesus was crucified on was made of. Roman history does not go into specifics as to how the crosses were made or what type of wood was used. There is a legend that the cross was made of dogwood. This is unlikely considering the typical size of a dogwood tree. The legend of the dogwood tree, author unknown, is as follows:

In Jesus' time, the dogwood grew
To a stately size and a lovely hue.
'Twas strong and firm it's branches interwoven
For the cross of Christ its timbers were chosen.
Seeing the distress at this use of their wood
Christ made a promise which still holds good:
"Never again shall the dogwood grow
Large enough to be used so.
Slender and twisted, it shall be
With blossoms like the cross for all to see.
As blood stains the petals marked in brown
The blossom's center wears a thorny crown.
All who see it will remember Me
Crucified on a cross from the dogwood tree.
Cherished and protected, this tree shall be
A reminder to all of my agony."

Again, this is just a legend. It is a nice poem, but there is no biblical basis to it.

--------------

Here is a pic of a dogwood blossom:

[MikeH]

42. And you know how one can tell a dogwood tree?

By its bark.

[AlecBGreen]

44. ba-DUMP-dump!

Will you be here all night? lol

[struggle4progress]

40. I think you have garbled holly lore with dogwood tales

[ZombieHorde]

41. I am not following your thinking here. What is your interpretation of this story? nt

[ChadwickHenryWard]

15. I've always been astonished by that verse.

What kind of fucking idiot looks for figs when the tree is out of season? This verse makes Jesus look like a tool. It portrays him as stupid, mean, and vindictive. Who wants to worship that asshole?

[Ian David]

27. Jesus had been to 21st Century America and grown used to supermarkets. n/t

[Ratty]

3. Stupid bush!

Not like we all haven't been there before.

[DeSwiss]

16. "...set fire to a thorny bush that kept pricking him on his way to college..."

Maybe it was a sign from Yahweh telling him that he wasn't cut out for college and should maybe try vocational school.

- You know, take up a trade, like something in landscaping...

[laconicsax]

17. ...except messages from The Sockpuppet always reinforce prior decisions.

It wouldn't be a sockpuppet otherwise.

[Dorian Gray]

18. If this didn't lead to destruction of mountain terrain

it would be pretty funny. Why didn't he just cut the thing down?

[Ian David]

28. Or walk AROUND it. n/t

[DeSwiss]

32. Cutting it down....

...involves hard work and labor. And that's for the peons, not god's elect -- er... almost elect. And walking around it?!?!?! Pffft! Perish the thought! The LORD Jesus' men don't deviate!

- At least they try HARD not to show when they're deviatin'......

[darkstar3]

33. Not THAT'S a good graphic.

Where do you get these, DS?

[DeSwiss]

34. I'm a collector.

I've got some really, really old stuff I've been collecting since I bought my first dual-floppy drive Epson 8086 chip pc back in 1989.

But mostly when I see something I like, I save it. It may be years before I use it, but there always seems to be the right opportunity to come along. Especially when it pertains to religion. And some of them I make myself, like this one:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Here's one of mine for your collection.

[LeftishBrit]

35. Well, I'm angry at Bush too; but I wouldn't start fires over it.

[struggle4progress]

39. Another old story resuscitated: sentencing was reported in 2010 for a fire in 2007

But there's a problem with the story. There is indeed a theology school at Zadar; it is part of the University of Split. But Zadar is more than 50 miles south of the southern tip of Nacionalni Park Sjeverni Velebit. The story requires Jure Erceg to have done a 50+ mile walk enough times, and to have been pricked by a particular bush along the route enough times, to have remembered that particular bush with malice

26. 02. 10. - 18:00
Theology student gets mad at bush and burns it
Croatian Times
Zadar Faculty of Theology student Jure Erceg has been sentenced to 15 months in prison for having set fire to a bush on Velebit Mountain in 2007 ... http://www.croatiantimes.com/?id=9245

Theology student jailed for burning bush Print
Written by The Zimbabwean
Friday, 05 March 2010 08:17
... Erceg told the court that he lost his temper with the bush after it repeatedly pricked on his way to and from Zadar Faculty of Theology ...
http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29328:theology-student-jailed-for-burning-bush&catid=70:sunday-issue

http://www.hr/croatia/science/universities/split
http://www.np-sjeverni-velebit.hr/novi_web/Velebit_eng/karta.htm

[trotsky]

43. Your nitpick seems to be completely based on a detail only found in the Zimbabwean.

Every other report of the story appears to say he got tired of the bush on his way to and from HOME. And that also, he was a student at Zadar. Most versions of the story do not indicate what you are assuming, that he is walking 50 miles back and forth multiple times.

Noble try, though. I know you make it your personal quest to try and introduce the tiniest doubt about an insignificant detail in order to try and discredit ANY story that might just show a believer in a negative light.

[struggle4progress]

45. Bush attacker trial (Austrian Times)

A student sparked a 30 million GBP forest fire in a national park after setting fire to a thorny shrub that kept pricking him on his way to college ... http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2010-03-02/21146/Bush_attacker_trial_

Croatian student sparks £30m forest fire after setting thorny bush alight in revenge attack
A student sparked a forest fire that caused £30 million in damages in a Croatian park after he set fire to a thorny bush that kept pricking him on his way to college ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7350601/Croatian-student-sparks-30m-forest-fire-after-setting-thorny-bush-alight-in-revenge-attack.html

It's a filler story. These things typically circulate with embellishment. It's hard to track down the actual facts

[trotsky]

46. And yet the basic facts of the story are consistent.

Theology student, set fire to bush.

Good luck with your little quests!

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Perhaps you've never had to rely on public transport in your life

If you had, you might consider that you have to get to a point, such as a bus stop, before you can use it. Thus, it is normal to walk for part of your journey, even though the distance of the whole journey is 50km or whatever.

[struggle4progress]

49. Could be. Gotta link?

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. You need a link to understand the basics of public transport?

Wow.

[struggle4progress]

51. I thought you might want to provide a link tying "public transportation" to the story

It seems to me not a terribly informative tale, as it currently stands. Trotsky, upthread in #46, seems satisfied with the summary "Theology student, set fire to bush." I, on the other hand, do not feel I am learning anything without more details. So when you suggested public transportation might somehow be involved, I naturally hoped you might provide a link casting further light on the story. But it appears I have misunderstood you, and you actually intended to express the idea that "the basics of public transport" were somehow involved: that is still unclear to me

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. You thought the story claimed he walked 50 miles or more to the college

("there's a problem with the story...The story requires Jure Erceg to have done a 50+ mile walk enough times, and to have been pricked by a particular bush along the route enough times, to have remembered that particular bush with malice")

I'm pointing out your assumption is rather silly, because many people walk for part of their trip, and use public transport, such as a bus or train, for part of it. Indeed, it's more common to have to do some walking at one or both ends than not; few people happen to have a bus stop or train station outside their home.

It's true that the newspaper story does not detail the precise route and transport methods that he used on his way to the college; if such a story did, as a matter of course, then newspapers would be unutterably boring and tedious. There are all kinds of details that they didn't bother reporting.

There is no 'problem' with the story. If you had to suggest how a student in Croatia, who lives in a mountainous area in a national park, would make a journey of 50 miles, then 'by bus' would be a very likely answer - probably the most likely, unless he could get a lift with a car owner, since he'd be unlikely to be rich enough to have a car available purely for his use.

[darkstar3]

53. Oh, but see, you've forgotten the rules.

Any information of any value on this board must come from an authoritative link. Failure to provide such a link, or providing a link that uses a source that can be questioned in any way, or providing a link that doesn't detail every single aspect of the story to your opponent's satisfaction, immediately invalidates your contribution to the thread.

And we come back to the question I asked before...where would R/T be without fallacious thinking?

[struggle4progress]

55. Sadly I find my own ESP abilities unreliable for sorting out stories about Croatian arsonists

Perhaps you could get us more reliable results that way?

[struggle4progress]

54. Well, we've all had a year to sort out the details of this exciting and important story,

and I'm afraid no one has considered the story important enough to take the time to do so

It is all very inconclusive. For the record, I will point out that the National Park does not seem easily accessible from Zadar by train, so I feel rather confident in saying that he did not go to school by train

:shrug:

[_ed_]

56. Exhibit #1 for why no serious institution of learning should have

courses in "theology." Should we also start the astrology department, the divining rod department, and the lucky rabbit's foot study area?