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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:09 PM
Original message
PULPIT: Darwinism still unconvincing to most Christians
PULPIT: Darwinism still unconvincing to most Christians

January 16, 2010 2:16 PM
MARK BARNA
THE GAZETTE


Charles Darwin cant get any respect from most American Christians.

Last year, secular groups honored Darwins 200th birthday and the 150th anniversary of the publication of his The Origin of Species. His ideas on evolution and natural selection are the bedrock of modern biology. Darwinism is increasingly being viewed as fact rather than theory.

Yet most Christians arent impressed.

A 2009 Gallup Poll revealed that only 39 percent of Americans believe evolution is true. Natural selection the idea that random mutations in species resulting in survival advantages are the engine of evolution fares even worse. Only 14 percent buy it, according to Gallup. Gallups editor in chief Frank Newport says Christian beliefs are the main reason Americans remain skeptical of Darwinism.

Bryce Lee of Simla, a speck of a town 50 miles east of Colorado Springs, has taken his anti-Darwinism to seldom-reached heights. Four years ago, he started The Non-Evolution Revolution seminar at his CrossRoads Youth Center, a nonprofit ministry to children and teens. His next seminar is Feb. 7.

Lee believes the earth is about 7,000 years old, dinosaurs existed in the Garden of Eden, and the Genesis creation story is literally true.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/pulpit-92313-charles-un...
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Think of it as an addiction - like alcoholism
Then the denial makes sense.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. People forget that Darwin was a Christian too.
He struggled with the ramifications of his own theories but in the end he couldn't deny them.
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. and then, like an honest man, he gave up the one that was wrong
.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm not a scientist
but my understanding is that his theory was evolution by "natural selection".

Evolution itself (just like gravity) isn't a theory, how we explain it is the theory.
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is terrifying.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who are these Christians?
I'm a Christian and I know ALOT of other Christians, who in turn know countless others and although I've attended many discussions of evolutions, I've never heard anyone portray Darwin's Theory as anti-Christian. I REALLY believe that these so-called Christians you refer to are HARD RIGHT NUTCASES, TRUST ME.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I wonder who these anti-evolution Christians are, too
I went to a Lutheran college in the early 1970s, and evolution was completely non-controversial when I took Studies in Genesis for one of my required religion courses. The professor was pleasantly surprised to find that he didn't have to explain that the first chapters of Genesis were myth to this class of Midwestern college students, most of whom were Lutheran or some other kind of Protestant and about half of whom were from small towns.

Evolution became "controversial" again (like school prayer, which never existed in most of the U.S.) when Reagan started courting the fundamentalists.

All of a sudden, it was OK to be a theocrat.

With Texas essentially controlling what gets into the nation's textbooks, I wouldn't be surprised if a huge number of young people for the past thirty years have simply never had evolution explained to them properly.

Catholics have nothing against evolution, nor do mainstream Protestants or Jews.

If people in those groups are Creationists, they're not getting it in church but from ideas floating around in the larger culture.

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uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Do you know if that professor had ever taught a class on Genesis before?
I would expect that a professor who had worked with that subject matter before wouldn't be surprised by the students' reactions to it. Otherwise, perhaps it was the case that the students enrolled in the class that year differed from those who had taken it in the past?

If people in those groups are Creationists, they're not getting it in church but from ideas floating around in the larger culture.

The most recent Pew Survey had about a quarter of Catholics reporting each A) that they didn't believe in evolution, B) that they believed the bible was literally true, word for word, and C) that they believed in astrology.

It seems that Catholics fairly regularly believe things contrary to what the RCC teaches. I don't recall figures about beliefs on birth control offhand, but I suspect that an even higher portion of Catholics disagree with the Church on that issue.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The Genesis course was a new one, premiered that year
I think the professor WAS anticipating problems, because a lot of the students were from small towns. But there were no such problems, and we moved right on from "Why the first chapters of Genesis aren't literal history" to form criticism and multiple authorship.

We were required to take Introduction to Theology as freshmen and Biblical Studies as sophomores. Then we had to take an additional elective in the Religious Studies department. I chose Studies in Genesis because it seemed the most interesting of the classes that would fit into my schedule.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Are we still beating Turkey?
A couple of years ago Science published a short comparative study of international acceptance of evolution. Thirty-four countries were polled, and guess what? We edged out Turkey for last place!

:bounce: U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! :sarcasm:


(Jon D. Miller, Eugenie C. Scott, and Shinji Okamoto (2006) "Public Acceptance of Evolution" Science Aug 11 2006: 765-766.)

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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. There should be a World Creationism Convention
with all the major religions invited to put forward their version of Creation.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The vacuum of stupid from a convention like that would suck away IQ points....
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 05:26 PM by rd_kent
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. It would be a black hole of ignorance...
Sort of like comparing Afghanistan to the neighbouring Muslim-majority countries that were part of the Soviet Union.

You go from a literacy rate that rivals Scandinavia's to one that rivals Bush's family tree.
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Certainly makes it easy......
to understand why this country is so fucked up!
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Non-Evolution Revolution seminar - AKA THE IGNORANCE TOUR
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's not clear what these polls actually measure. A 2007 Gallup poll found 53%
of the public thought "the idea that human beings developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life" was definitely or probably true, while 66% thought "the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" was definitely or probably true. At least 19% thus consider both statements to be definitely or probably true! But what does that mean? It may mean (for example) that the polling questions are not resolving people's actual beliefs very clearly

See:
June 11, 2007
Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
More Americans accept theory of creationism than evolution
by Frank Newport
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/majority-republicans-d...
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I have always wondered what percentage of people
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 11:04 PM by ChadwickHenryWard
in your average poll don't understand the question and are just making up the answer. This phenomenon might be at work here; a significant number of those responding might not clearly understand the statement they are being asked to give an opinion about. I recall a poll that was posted here a couple years ago in which 8% of self-identified atheists said they were "completely sure" god existed. That means that at least those eight percent didn't know what the word "atheist" meant. I have always been wary of polls for this reason, just from the general observation that most people aren't very smart.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. And yet these same "creationists....."
Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 12:15 AM by DeSwiss
...will immediately launch themselves into the hospitals and doctor's offices at the first sign of serious injury or illness. The same institutions and individuals whose very livelihoods are based upon the understanding and acknowledgment of the truth and reality that living material mutates and evolves. And thus, a constant vigil of analysis of the evolution of germs, cancers and viruses must be undertaken by scientists in order to monitor this evolution of disease in order for new curative approaches and drugs to be discovered and created to insure the efficacy of their treatment and whose understanding of this "evolution theory" will result in a favorable outcome. As in: they're still alive to tell the tale.

Then, after the principles of science and the scientific method has saved their "god believing asses," they give credit not the EMT's, not the hard-working nurses, nor the lab techs, not the CRT, PET scan and/or MRI techs. And sometimes not even the doctor who intervened while their personal savior was nowhere to be found. While their god (the same all-knowing and all-powerful god who could have prevented their calamity in the first place) stood idly by and watched them writhed in pain. Until the nurse came with her science and gave you a shot (the unappreciative bastards). No, it was their personal savior what done it. Their prayers and their personal savior -- not any of those others with their silly science and evolution. They were just doing his will. He let these scientists use his magic and do all the hard work because he was busy washing his hair, I suppose.

As with most of the directives and standards that are to be found in bibles and religious doctrines, once again like clockwork these "so-called believers" totally ignore their beliefs when it is their asses on the line. When pain and death looms over them and they see that the end of their lives is within reach, they choose the scientist. They choose the ones that they don't believe. The ones whom they say don't know what the fuck they're talking about with all their goddamned evolution. But apparently they're good for something after all. Yep. Saving their pitiful lives when they know their god would have left them to slip away with another one of his "mysterious ways" cop-outs. So why didn't they depend upon their personal all-powerful god that they genuflect to under pleasanter circumstances, this time? Why? Why? Why?

Because deep within they know that they prefer living. And they also know from experience they had better take action themselves. Because they know that the god of the gaps won't come to the their rescue -- no matter how much lip-service they pay, because that god is imaginary.

And yet, as if stuck in a badly produced B-movie, we are looped in time with these believers of nonsense. And forced to watch and listen to their inanities as they ignore their own words and beliefs. People who claim to believe one thing and yet openly practice another. Which is technically called LIVING A LIE. And the god of the gaps once again fills the largest gaps that there is -- the ones' in believer's heads.

- And of course god still won't cure amputees.....

Mark 16:15-18 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.



on edit: spelling
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. Alternate poll results title...
..."Most people polled are scientifically ignorant idiots".
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Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. If the numbers are actually this low.....then America is screwed!
Edited on Wed Jan-20-10 12:51 AM by Vehl
I still remember the day when I attended my first critical thinking/writing class here in an US College.(I was a international student then). The talked drifted to creation and some people started talking about god creating humans..Adam and Eve and etc etc...at first I thought they were joking(I was clueless about "creationism" them). It took me a while to understand that these people were actually serious!! I was flabbergasted that people actually believed this to be true!. When I called my parents I told them this..and they simply did not accept this to be true. (they thought i was pulling a prank on them!) :))


Even now, years later...i still cannot bring my head around to digest the fact that such a big a % of Americans don't accept Darwinian evolution! They are gonna be left behind unless they keep up with the modern times.
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. You caught me...I'm a bigot.
I wanted to point and laugh at the guy when I read this:

"Lee believes the earth is about 7,000 years old, dinosaurs existed in the Garden of Eden, and the Genesis creation story is literally true."
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Hmmm...
I wonder which Genesis creation story he thinks is literally true... or if he even realizes there are two different ones.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. The average IQ is 100....enough said.
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