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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:38 AM
Original message
what can be done to make the religious left more politically powerful?
There are a lot of leaders out there already, as well as several organizations already tapped in to the process that could help. Sojourners, SOA Watch isn't as broad-focused but could bring a lot of depth on foreign policy, the black churches, others. What can we do to unite the religious left as a counterweight to the fundie right?
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Mobilize the activist Catholic voters
For years many many Catholics have worked for social justice by fighting for workers rights and wages. By fighting for health care for EVERYBODY. By fighting against all wars.
Lately, the fundies have picked off enough of the anti-abortion Catholics to make it seem like al of us are right wingers. Couldn't be farther from the truth.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. a call for an ecumentical day of prayer
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:48 AM by Mabus
on the anniversary of the war on Iraq.

on edit: in conjunction with a nationwide bake sale for education (school supplies, upgrade equipment, tutors) or armor for the troops, or environment (raise money to purchase green space, community clean-up efforts, education on recycling) or for homeless shelters.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Trouble is, the religious left is less apt to take the attitude
that they're 100% right and anyone who disagrees is 100% wrong. Plus, they just aren't as committed to witnessing and "saving souls" and all that.

As long as there's any trace of live-and-let-live in the left, the religious right (or Moron Majority as I prefer to call them) will always be better able to mobilize their minions.

Just an ex-Lutheran's opinion.
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beets Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. I propose religious bypass surgery
What are you doing? We know what the 'religious' right is practicing is anything but religion. But since this is a country where church and state are separate, they can sing bawdies scratching 'thar butts and we don't have to listen or look. I suggest we not participate in this mindless rhetoric. Bypass the religious issue altogether! Don't you guys realize this is just what the republicans want the dems and others to do? They're pulling you right into the morass they are in~aren't we too smart for that? This is not going to get us anywhere sane. I don't know about you, but my religion is none of their business~their competency to govern is.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've got one idea
and after I get over this cold I'll get to work on it.


I'm Unitarian Universalist, and UUism played a key role in the founding principles of the United States. Jefferson, Washington and Adams all attended Unitarian services from time to time.

One thing I would like to do is go back and review the founding principles of our nation, and the concepts on which they were based. I admit I'm a bit hazy on my US history, like so many other Americans. But my daughter is a college history major, my husband is a history buff, and we can pull together a group of reasonably intelligent folks to get things rolling.

So I am planning to start a discussion group at my church, to read the works of Thomas Paine and others, and talk about how they apply to our nation today. If it catches on, we can invite non-members of the church to join the discussions, and maybe try to spread it to other congregations.

To develop a clear vision of our future, we need to review our original guiding principles and apply them to the present.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I like that idea
but I wonder how it'd fly outside the UU setting, in other churches.

We (I'm saying "we" a lot as an unchurched agnostic, but I grew up Methodist so I know the drill) need to build a lot of ecumenical bridges.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. You never know until you try...
so feel free to start a similar discussion group with friends.

I like the idea of calling these groups "Circles of Liberty."
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revree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER
as one cohesive unit, no matter our individual differences, and show the world and the media just how many of us there are...also we need to put our money where our beliefs are and support writers, artists, speakers, politicians, leaders, churches, etc... that share OUR beliefs. The religious right has become masterful at raising and using their financial power. WE MUST DO THE SAME.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Have Sister Joan lead the way...she's amazing & speaks the
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:30 PM by Pachamama
truth...if your not familiar with her, get to know her...she is a very wise woman and a woman who is a "true" christian, not this televangelical version we see spouting their venom like Bob Jones, Dobson, Falwell and the rest of the fundies who think "God chose Bush"....

She would be a perfect person to help lead the way for the religious left and in making them more politically powerful...she is a Benedictine Nun in Erie, PA.

Read here a recent article from her....

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/fwis /

She was interviewed by Bill Moyer's NOW on Friday....if you didn't see it, get a copy of the tape....she was outstanding....she said there was nothing christian or Pro-life about this administration....she said there is nothing "Pro-life" about the killing of pregnant Iraqi women and that just because they were done by a "smart bomb" or in the name of a pre-emptive war, didn't make them right, in fact less so...She said that the "Pro-life" people and this administration are actually not "Pro-Life", but rather they are actually "Pro-birth" (I like the way she framed that) and that while she is personally opposed to abortion, she said that people who claim to be "Pro-life" should start showing more concern for the children on this earth and in our country once they are born and caring for them...she said if we were so concerned about life and caring for people from tyrannical rule, then why aren't we in Darfur, Sudan and protecting those people?

She talked about how the Puritans and Prohibitionists in this country burned people at the stakes and also told people what they could and couldn't do based on their interpretation of "values" and "morals" as they saw it....She said this is "Dogma" and she as a Catholic knows all too well about "Dogma" and its dangers....

She also railed Bush for his "sleazy" tactics of his awarding the Pope the Presidential Medal of Freedom award...She said while the Pope surely deserves it, she said that the Bush Administration shamelessly used that photo op/public relations stunt to go after the Catholic vote as if the Pope supported Bush....In fact she said, at that very same meeting, the Pope very clearly stated his opposition to Bush and his pre-emptive doctrine of War and the War on Iraq. She said they very purposely left that part of the Popes statements out of their courting of Catholics...

Anyway, she is an example of an amazing person who could help drive this movement from the left to counter the right wing fundies claiming exclusive rights to the word of God...she said people who want to follow Jesus, should start with his Sermon on the Mount where he talked about caring for the poor and those that couldn't care for themselves....





:yourock: Sister Joan Chittister!
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. ok, so how to set a movement in motion?
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Pikku Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Thanks for that article, Pachamama
Good one!
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Tony Campolo is also very level-headed and articulate.
eom
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. There are two problems here that we need to work on:
1) Most of us on the spiritual left arenot evangelists the way the RW are. We don't like to shove our beliefs down others throats.

2) We on the left have a strong reverence for the concept of Separation of Church and State.

We need to address these two issues and help those on the left recognize that yes, they can speak their mind in a tactful way so that it isn't offensive to others, and yes it is ok to have political opinions even if you are very spiritual. You aren't breaking down the wall of church and state unless you try to institute religion from the offices of the government.

See my Christianity page for reasons why spiritual people should be politically active.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. fair points, but how to address them?
You aren't breaking down the wall of church and state unless you try to institute religion from the offices of the government.

That's a sharp point.

I think this needs to start within the churches, not within the party.
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Sorry, but what Christianity page? Where?
Thanks in advance!
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. EVANGELISM! That's it!
Now one reason why the religous left is not too much noticed is that on the whole we are not very adept at all at spreading the word of the Lord. I myself must put my hand up and admit that I too fall into that catagory. However, we must try and reach out to people more.

It won't be easy at all though. For one thing my own view on religion (as I suspect it is with a lot of liberal Christians) is centered on the need for love, and it is far easier in our society to sell hate. For another thing progressive Christians face another barrier in the militant anti-religous views of many on the left, which tend to drown out our message. A re-emergence of the Christian left is not just down largely to us Christians, it also depends to a degree on how willing the secular left is to accept us.....and I'm not holding my breath on that front.
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kcr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Several things
It starts with the Democrats incorporating religiosity into their messages. I am not advocating a weakening of the separation of church and state, but there are good religious reasons for Democratic policies, and we should encourage people who share those reasons for articulating them. Dems have to learn to incorporate that into their national message. of course, Dems have to develop an effective national message, but, hey, one can dream ....

Dems have to do more policy outreach towards left church groups. The Repubs have a tight working relationship with those ministers willing to sell their message -- the Dems need to do something similar.

The liberal church groups need a more vocal media presence. Unless they are content to have Christianity defined as right wing, then they need t counter the media impression that Christianity == right wing.

They need to be more political. Or, at least, more involved. They need tot take on issues loudly and effectively and in strength. Individual churches do great works, but there is no coordination of efforts, and no attempt to take credit for it. Again, it runs a little bit counter to their nature, but this is the environment we live in, so ...

Dems need to stop accepting that Falwell and their ilk are religious. Every time they are opposite one of the Fundy brigade, they need to start each response with "Well, Jerry may feel that way but he does not represent mainstream Christianity. if he did, he would know that mainstream Christians fell that ..... " and go from there.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. several good points here
Dems have to learn to incorporate that into their national message. of course, Dems have to develop an effective national message, but, hey, one can dream ....

My mind goes immediately to a chicken/egg conundrum, which isn't helpful. Someone just needs to damn well do it. We'll align things later as the need arises.

Thanks, Kevin. :hi:
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Yes. We have the moral issues on our side.
It's just a matter of getting the word out. Since Christianity is the dominant religion here, we should use be using Christian teachings to support our positions. Like this:

Why should we pay taxes?
Jesus said to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

Why should we preserve medicare and social security?
Jesus said to help the poor.

Why should we not twist our opponent's words?
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Why should we use military force as a last resort?
Blessed are the peacemakers.

...and so on. Do this and you'll see the religious right exposed as hypocrites, at least in their policies.

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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Do consider the 29%
of democrat voters who are not Christian. And then 25% or so who are Christian but rarely go to church, there are reasons they don't. And reach out to the 70% or whatever of the world who don't follow the cross.

Include some non-christians. Lamas, Rebbes, Imams, Gurus, Daoists, ancestor worshipers, Humanists, philosophers, non-pauline christians ... well anyone who is enlightened. Get the Dalai Lama and similar people to speak and the right wing will have a hard time denying that the holy spirit is in these people.

You'll find that the important things are extremely common. Hope, Love, Tolerance, Empathy, Charity, Philanthropy, Brotherhood, Harmony and family values. You'll even show that 'family values' means much the same thing across the globe and across faiths.

It's the same fire on the same hill and they're all just looking at it from different directions through different landscape. The enlightened ones, who get closer to the fire, can see that all the ethnic, religious, racial and other divisions are irrelevant and only persist because they're continuously used by the greedy and domineering to divide and conquer.

Don't preach Hell. Don't preach heaven as a bribe to buy allegiance. Don't preach Satan as some anthropomorphized demigod enemy of god. Don't teach Paul and his woman-hating and bowing to authorities. These notions are repulsive, turn-offs, to so many.

Follow the Love, Empathy, Charity etc. and you'll find yourself blessed. Avoid the Primal urges of hatred, might-makes-right, jealousy and exploitation and you'll find yourself blessed.

You can articulate "Democrat Values" in spirituality and goodness and rightness that will appeal to many faiths, the faithless and, I think, the fundamentalists; Without turning half of them off with some of the more objectionable, and ancillary, doctrines of Roman/European/Nicaean Christianity.

Perhaps I should say "Leftern Values" as political affiliation could be a hinderance, but with identifyable Democrats involved.


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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. There is no progressive movement in the RCC that is recognized
by the RCC. Sect after sect pulls on this church and some of the other churches trying to introduce or further change. Hasn't happened and won't happen. The Dem's cannot afford to become embroiled in the value laden judgements or traditions of these churches. Rather, the Dem's must align themselves with the aims of these churches without commiting the Constitution to reform before these religious hierarchies even attempt to reform themselves.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. that's an issue for RCs.
There are, nonetheless, many progressives within the RCC. I'd like to know how, if at all, we can support them.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The RCC is an issue for all of us. Not b/c of the sex scandal
altho' that's bad. The RCC has a huge impact on both political and economical concerns in the US.

Groups that continue to try to introduce change in the RCC are varied. Some new, some not so new. Lots of Social Justice stuff, VOTF for change in the church has garnered the most recent headlines.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. If the RCC has no progressive movement...
we'll have to create one! I suggest we call it a neoprogressive movement, a revival of New Deal philosophy coupled with couching the Church's social teachings in secular terms. Anti-abortion Catholics can be won back, provided we redefine "pro-life" to protect all human life, not just life yet to be born--in other words, interpret it to mean pro-life across the board. Remember, this is a religious movement, and church teachings win out in this case.

We can also point out that many, clergy and laity alike, who preach and/or push conservative Repuke doctrine and sermons have skeletons in their closet. What about all those pedophile priests exposed? Almost to a man, they're from the conservative wing. It was those priests who preached fire-and-brimstone, vote-pro-life(anti-abortion)-or-rot-in-hell homilies. He who preaches against sexual deviance is likely a sexual deviant himself.

Emphasize Christ's turning women from men's inferiors, subject to their husbands' whims, to men's equal. Cite Luke 10:38-45 as evidence: 38 Now as they were traveling along, He entered a village; and a woman named (38) Martha welcomed Him into her home.
39 She had a sister called (39) Mary, who was (40) seated at the Lord's feet, listening to His word.
40 But (41) Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, "Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me."
41 But the Lord answered and said to her, "(42) Martha, Martha, you are (43) worried and bothered about so many things;
42 (44) but only one thing is necessary, for (45) Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her."

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=LUKE+...

Remember the word "charity"? Time for us to use it as much as possible in our dealings with others. We have to point out that the radical right is very uncharitable in their dealings with the smallest and weakest of society. We, on the other hand, strive to be charitable.
Definition of charity:
1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
2. Something given to help the needy; alms.
3. An institution, organization, or fund established to help the needy.
4. Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity.
5. Indulgence or forbearance in judging others. See Synonyms at mercy.
(emphasis is mine)
6. often Charity Christianity The theological virtue defined as love directed first toward God but also toward oneself and one's neighbors as objects of God's love.

This is just the beginning
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. How about "relatively" progressive?
There have to be some Moderate RCC leaders who can warm to that without the Church Shushing them for going progressive. It's really just a matter of emphasis no?
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. I like the idea of making the liberal congregations ...
"the religious left" if you will ... a societal force to be recognized and respected.

I think, first of all, that the following groups have to end any differences they may have (I've heard they are rivals), and work together:

1. the Interfaith Alliance,
2. the Clergy Leadership Network,
3. et al.

Much like we have a March for Women's Lives, we need to have a big one showing unity (and availability, by the way) between the various progressive faiths and congregations.

Suggested participants:

1. Unitarian-Universalists,
2. Church of Religious Science,
3. United Church of Christ,
4. and Church of Christian Science.

I'm sure many others could be suggested.

But, boy, would the Religious Right get threatening and nasty then. I figure that progressive churches will be their worst enemy as progressive faiths and congregations grow. I think that they will attack us then.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I will suggest an addition
to your list of participants might be the Reconciling Ministries Network of the United Methodist Church.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
38. marketing religion
There's an entire industry of Christian marketing in evangelicalism. There are scads of books on marketing churches - getting more bang for the buck. These churches use contemporary/rock music and promote a concert-like atmosphere. Many use TV and movie clips, skits, to entertain the masses. They have coffee houses within the churches (one local church has "He Brews cafe" another the "Solid Rock Cafe"). Ministers from these churches go to school, conferences, and seminars on how to market their church to people. If you haven't been to a modern evangelical church service recently, you wouldn't believe it. But what they are doing is working to pull people away from the more liberal mainline protestant churches, who people see as dull and boring. For large numbers of people I know who go to these mega churches, they aren't even that conservative. They were just bored with what they saw as dead church services that didn't entertain them. This is our society folks - people expect to be entertained. This is the reason for declining numbers in the mainline churches, not that the mainline churches are too liberal. Not that I am calling for liberal churches to jump on the "Purpose Driven Church" bandwagon. I am just stating fact. These evangelical mega churches have basketball and softball leagues. They have full-service gyms. They have huge youth programs that focus far more on having fun than on religion. A lot of families with older kids find themselves in the dilema of their kids wanting to go to church with their friends, and so they hold their noses and make the switch to these mega churches. I know plenty moderate-progressive people who have done just that. They don't buy into the dogma, but their kids are having fun. Most of the people I know who have left progressive-leaning churches have done so for the above reasons. Once you get them in the door, you can feed them in small doses misinformation to slowly move them toward your beliefs. This is what happens. These churches are "seeker friendly" which means they don't hit people with the serious dogma in church services. They get them in with "relevant" messages, and then gradually indoctrinate them as they get more involved in Sunday school, etc. It's a process we all should be familiar with. The vast majority of people in these churches are unaware of their church's stances on many issues. Some of these churches even hide their denominational affiliation - posing as independent churches.

All this to say, if we are going to combat this movement, we have to understand it. It is not a matter of throngs of people flocking to the right-wong dogma. It's an multi-billion dollar industry with sophisticated marketing. Only half the pastors in these churches do not even believe what they preach from the pulpit (biblical worldview according to Barna). Also according to Barna Research, only 9% of American Born Again Christians have what Barna defines as a "Christian Worldview." It's about the money for a lot of these folks. That's why we see the scandals in this movement (the latest being "prophet" Paul Cain being outted as a homosexual and alcoholic by his fellow "prophets" - Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere - http://www.eaglestar.org/pages/special_bulletins/oct_20... ). This is a movement based on their true God - the Almighty Dollar. In order to fight it, we have to understand it and expose it for what it is.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. Pray with our feet
And repeatedly ask, where are the works, where are the fruits. Then make ourselves visible out there doing the works as expressions of gratitude and faith. That seems to me what is missing from evangelicals anyway, no works. Just hallelujah all the day, which isn't much of a religion.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
22. I don't want us to fall into the trap of "I'm more religious than you"
in our politics, and I'm afraid that is the one of the things that Bush has permanently brought to us.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. My pastor sent me this article from Village Voice
It is something to consider if we are to make our voices heard.

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0445/feingold.php

The title of the piece is:
Our Vanished Values Where they went, and whyand how they might come back

<snip>
For make no mistake, this is the election in which American Christianity destroyed itself. Today the church is no longer a religion but a tacky political lobby, with an obsessive concentration on a minuscule number of social topics so irrelevant to questions of governance that they barely constitute political issues at all. These are the points of contention tied into what are blurrily referred to as "moral values," though they have almost nothing to do with the larger moral question of how one lives one's life, and everything to do with the fundamentally un-Christian and un-American idea of forcing others to live the way you believe they should. The displacement of faith involved is eerie, almost psychotic: Here are people willing to vote against their own well-being and their own children's future, just so they can compel someone else's daughter to bear an unwanted child and deprive someone else's son of the right to file a joint income tax return with his male partner.

If this isn't Christianityand it isn'tstill less is it in any respect like democracy. The whole meaning of America was predicated by the founding fathers on the right of citizens to practice their own faith and conduct their lives as they saw fit; to interfere actively in others' lives, on the basis of "moral values" about which there is no agreement, is the most radical repudiation of constitutional values in our electoral history, reducing the word conservative to absurdity. Today the Republican Party is not the right wing of anything; it is a band of violent radical reactionaries preaching medieval totalitarian bigotry. And Christianity as currently preached and practiced in Middle America is virtually Satan, by the standards of anyone who strives to follow the teachings of Jesus. Having degraded themselves to the level of political lobbies, most Christian churches should certainly be compelled to register as lobbyists and pay taxes.

Our bogus Christians' desire to totalitarianize, ironically, is the mirror image of the thing they most fear, which was the other great paradoxical source of Bush's victory: bogus Islam. If it is only in the last four decades that American Christianity has steadily thrown up walls of hostility against the complex and disturbing changes of contemporary life, Islam has had nine or 10 centuries of practice at shutting out social change. The incursion of modern technology, though, and of windfalls from the Western world's craving for Middle Eastern oil, were beginning to alter the pattern of centuries for the better: There is today a small but emphatic body of educated Muslims desiring to be both modern and moderate.





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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent question. I was seriously thinking of a TV empire, like PTL?
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 10:08 AM by mzmolly
:shrug:

Progressive Christian Network anyone? PCN for short. ;)

Or Progressive Spirituality Network ? or ???

I'd like it to be very "inclusive" though so scrap the first name.
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Frogtutor Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. What a cool idea! I agree that it should be inclusive, but I think
there's more of a chance of swaying some misguided republican voters if you include "Christian" in the name, or "faith", or something that would draw in the religious right to watch...

Frogtutor
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Ivan Sputnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. We do need an umbrella organization
equivalent to the Moral Majority (or whatever they're calling it these days) on the right. Note that they did not use "Christian" in their name (or anything specifically religious), yet certainly didn't alienate the fundies. "Ethical America," or something . . .



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juslikagrzly Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
29. We (husband is a presby minister)
are possibly starting a chapter of the Interfaith Alliance in our small city to combat the takeover of our government by the Christian right. We were crushed and depressed after the election so we set up a meeting (happening next week) for like-minded folks. I'll let you know what comes of it. We invited some folks from another chapter to come talk to us, as a starting point to our activism.

I think we need to take back the language. I was speaking with a student the other night about the abortion issue, and referred to her stance as "anti-choice" rather than "pro-life". Small steps, but important ones.

I think we also need to be willing to stand up, loudly, for what we believe in. I agree with an earlier poster who stated (paraphrasing) that we are so tolerant of other viewpoints and are committed to hearing all voices that sometimes our own voice gets lost.

There are some things we just have to stand up and say "Wrong"!!!! The Bible does NOT say that; true followers of Jesus would NOT have done it this way, etc. etc.

Moral relativism has always been a rallying cry of the religious right and maybe we should listen to them. We need to draw boundaries around what we think and believe, and then loudly proclaim and own our beliefs.

If we had lived under Hitler, would we have stood by and said "well, I respect your opinions". I hope not. We have to take a stand.

I for one, proudly proclaim that I am henceforth INTOLERANT OF INTOLERANCE! What a paradox :-).

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Gryffindor_Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
34. Have the rest of the left stop chasing them away. nt
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Fat chance of that
As anyone who has witnessed any of the religous flame wars in GD will attest, religous bigotry is alive and well on the left. We lefties like to pretend that we are somehow enlightened and tolerant of others but in reality this is little more than a monumental lie.

And although other religions are sometimes the target for this bigoted abuse, the favourite targets for it are Christians. Just look at the incessant use on this board of the term "fundie" as an anti-Christian slur. No wonder Christains abandon the left when they are such targets for abuse. Indeed I expect a torrent of indignant and arrogant replies hurling abuse at me for pointing this out right here. That's what always happens when you point this out on DU.

In order to attract more religous people I cannot help but conclude that the left must first put its own house in order. And I have no confidence whatsoever in the ability of the left to do this. We are too much in love with hate, too fond of screaming like a stuck pig about the specks in other peoples eyes whilst failing to notice that we have a rather large log in our own eye.
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Gryffindor_Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I got sucked into a flame war a few days ago over the question of
whether or not Christians are human. The other poster argued that they were vermin. I maintained that that was the kind of thinking that leads one group to put another into camps. I was roundly criticized for this.

Sigh, sigh, sigh, sigh, sigh, sigh.

No matter who it comes from -- Democrat or Republican, Christian, atheist, or Buddhist -- Hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate is hate.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. Point out Repub double standards, esp. on life
Edited on Sat Nov-27-04 08:50 AM by ih8thegop
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God." - Matthew 5:9


  • Leaders of the US Catholic and Methodist churches called on Bush not to invade Iraq (Bush is Methodist)
  • More than 1,200 dead American soldiers in Iraq
  • How many innocent Iraqi civilians have died?


"Whatsoever you do unto the least of my people, you do unto me." -Matthew 25:40


  • 36 million people in poverty (12% increase from 2001)
  • 45 million without health insurance
  • inflation has gone up, wages have not


"Current U.S. policy is that some human life does not matter." - Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, Auxiliary Catholic Bishop of Detroit
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
37. We have to get a voice
and get some press. Here's my thread from the GD forum on a couple of news articles on the Christian left from this week:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
39. Christian Peacemakers Team
is a great organisation.

http://www.cpt.org/
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. Some have said that we need a voice
And that is true.
And we have to acknowledge that the voice in this day and time is the TV.

I would like to see a TV show right near the religious channels that talked exclusively about the teachings of Jesus and in a dramatic way, and actively using Jesus own words to contradict the crap that the religious right puts out.
Just remember that the majority of creative people are on the left and so thee is no lack of talent to produce something that would knock your socks off.

Nothing could be more helpful to the progressive cause than to have it spoken for by Jesus himself.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. I know I would watch such a channel
Heck, I would even financially support such an undertaking - who though would be the right group to sponsor such a thing? See that's the problem. The WCC perhaps?
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Some one with deep pockets
that could put together some seed money with others. then it could be self financing by asking for contributions from the viewer and sell books and stuff like the fundies do. .
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beets Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. Stop, please just stop.
We're in so much trouble with the blurring of church & state, participating in or harboring ideas about such a sideways venture is like pandering to someone who's beating your daughter. Religion is personal, people. National politics is another, under whose umbrella all people can practice any faith they choose. This is dangerous territory you're treading on. This is exactly what the republican rabids hoped you would do. Just stop.
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
46. a nuclear weapons program?
:shrug:
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