Sincere question, for the faithful

[boomboom]

Is there anyone here like me who is "fundamentally" offended, even frightened by the chance that Bush and his ilk claim God speaks through them? Has there ever been a man of faith claiming he speaks for God? Has there ever been a political party who claim the voice of God that hasn't been destroyed? Is there something about politics and money that makes you closer to God? Is there something about political party and money that justifies YOUR judgement of your brethren?

I'm all for God's law. I'm all for God's word. But I believe in ALL of it as belonging to our Lord. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe these very vocal people have been chosen by the Lord. If so, I'll have to account for that on Judgement Day. But I refuse to be judged by any one here on earth. And right now, I am humbled. And frightened. And remain in prayer.

[xray s]

1. I think if you go back 2000 years you will find an analogy

To me, the Religious right of today is no different than the religious authorities that Jesus condemned for their hypocrisy and lack of compassion.

When I read the Gospel, that seems plain as day to me. In fact, I think that is the whole point of the Gospel. The dangers of religious hypocrisy and a lack of compassion.

[blogbear]

2. That's so true..Down through the ages there have always been

politics playing, moneyed, moronic, truth distorting loudmouths calling the shots..

[cprise]

3. On some level

...I feel ofended by the assumption that "faith" is necessarily about God.

I have faith in humanity, that we will (on balance) do the right things.

[Cocottelle]

4. Saddam

Claimed God Spoke thru him

[Syncronaut Seven]

5. Who?

.

[Cocottelle]

8. here

Saddam Hussein - Iraqi leader who waged war against Iran; his invasion of Kuwait led to the Gulf War (born in 1937)

;-)

[Tux]

6. I don't believe

God interacts with the Universe so when someone claims to speak for God, they are merely using religion and the ultimate authority to prove them right with no evidence and it all needs faith.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[imenja]

9. Obviously he doesn't speak for most of us

and one of the greatest dangerous of the Christian Right's alignment with the Republican party is that it threatens the freedom of religion as well as the freedom of non-theists.

As for your point that all political parities "who claim the voice of God" have been destroyed, history suggests otherwise. Your question, of course, presumes a model based on current American politics. All societies are unique. But there have been many states that have advanced one religion, and they have survived for long periods of time. The Spanish and Portuguese were Catholic empires, and their American colonies were founded on religious conversion--well, this is more accurate for the Spanish than the Portuguese. The Islamic Caliphates lasted for centuries. And most European monarchies promoted a single religion, whether Catholic or Protestant. The idea of the separation of Church and State emerged only with the Enlightenment. Before then, human kind simply did not imagine a duality of sacred and profane.

What I find odd in your question is that you've somehow swallowed the GOP propaganda that they somehow speak for all people of faith. How is that possible? I'm continually struck by the extent to which the Left has allowed the Right to redefine and limit how many conceive of politics. Liberalism is now the opposite of conservatism, defined in terms of culture and sex rather than class. If we allow them to continue to set the political agenda this way, we have lost the war.

[tucoramirez2005]

11. Are you concerned with the Religious Left's

alignment with the Democratic Party?

They feel as strongly as the right does. With Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton running for president, it is obvious that the Democratic Party is quite comfortable running Christian "reverends" for office.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. No, I'm not frightened

Maybe Bush has his place in what is to transpire; that is not my place to say. But I don't believe any person can really say they speak for God. The few God-realized people I have met don't talk that way. In fact, their words don't mean as much as their atmosphere. The closest I know of someone speaking for God was when Hallaj (I think I have the name right), a Sufi, said "I am Truth" in a moment of spiritual ecstasy. He was crucified for his speech.

[Tux]

12. Hallaj?

Wasn't he the one that founded Sufism and was killed because he said he was the truth or god or something. Picked up something like that in UU church. Been awhile ago too.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. You got part of it right

according to Sufi masters, the first Sufi was Adam. Hallaj became God-realized, and while in a state of Unity uttered "I am Truth!" This was considered blasphamy, and he was executed.