So I talked to our parish pastor again last night after mass

[Gman]

After evening mass, we had our granddaughter baptized last night and had previously (before the events of this incident) asked our pastor to do the baptism. Again, I really do like the guy. He's a kind and gentle man. But it was the first time we had seen each other since our little confrontation. I was a bit apprehensive as I wasn't sure what he would be like. But he was his usual warm and gentle self. He performed the baptism and everyone was happy.

Afterwards, as we were leaving I said with a smile, "Father, I still want to continue our discussion." He responded with, "Please pray for me." I said I will and for him to please pray for me and for us. He smiled and said he would, but I still want to talk. He said OK.

I thought that was an interesting response to my expression of wanting to continue our discussion of abortion as an all or none issue in the Catholic Church versus all the other good liberal and progressive causes that the Church should be more outspoken about. He said, "Pray for me." Was he saying to pray for him that he is correct in his thinking about abortion? Was he saying he had been thinking about the other issues I talked to him about and wants prayer to help him see what is right? I don't know, but I'll find.

As we were leaving my wife said about me, "He loves to debate!" Father said, "I do too!" Everyone had a hearty laugh and we went to dinner.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. You can take it as you wish

but I would take "pray for me" to mean "Pray that I can see without blinders of prejudice and assumption, that I can cut through old programming and seek and say only the truth."

[Gman]

5. I think you described it much better than I was able to describe what he meant

I think you're exactly right, I hope.

[ZombieHorde]

2. He is obviously considering cannibalizing your flesh, and needs prayer to resist this temptation...

or he may just want to have sex with you. I would say 75% chance he desires human flesh for food and 25% chance he desires human flesh for fucking. Prayer does not seem necessary for this perfectly normal situation.

[Gman]

6. You probably think it was necessary to post this

what a shame that you have no class, nor can you participate in an adult discussion. Go find some maturity, why don't you?

[Goblinmonger]

8. It was kinda funny.

The last sentence is his real point. The rest was just a little humor. Maybe you need to lighten up?

[ZombieHorde]

9. Since you dislike my humor, I will rephrase my reply,

He did not know what to say so he blew some smoke up your ass trying to sound pious, or he was giving you a fake compliment.

Go find some maturity

I appreciate your concern for my maturity, perhaps you could help me out by answering some questions on the subject.

Do mature posts contain insults and personal attacks? Do demonstrations of "class" contain these as well?

What is the definition of an "adult discussion"?

[Gman]

12. No offense, but

one day you'll learn the answers to these questions on your own. I hope.

[ZombieHorde]

13. I know the answers, I was just pointing out the hypocritical nature of your post.

Sorry, I thought that was clear.

[wellstone dem]

3. What a struggle for you

I too have a conservative priest, but at least he is not a one-issue priest.

In talking about helping the poor, when a parishoner was saying we should leave this to Catholic Charities said, "I will not be consoled by passing this problem on to others. I will not be consoled." Now whenever someone tries to "talk me down" I think to myself or say out loud, "I will not be consoled."

And more recently, when a small non-profit helping immigrant muslim women asked to use our community room, he agreed immediately. He said, "This is what we must do."

And so, while I struggle with his beliefs, I do not struggle with his integrity, which has made this transition much easier.

[eleny]

4. It's bullshit

He had no business being cryptic. There's a guy who had no trouble blasting Dems from the pulpit but last night he couldn't find words because you caught him off guard.

I'm an ex Catholic btw and am smelling that special brand of RC bullshit.

Best of luck, Gman.

[JerseygirlCT]

11. Well, but perhaps it is possible, with continued conversation

that he'll be shown the harshness and error of his ways.

I suspect that's also what the priest is hoping, but that definitely cuts both ways.

And if that's not the case, if this priest isn't coming to the conversation with an open mind, I still don't know that there's much to lose by talking. Gman seems in no way interested in leaving his church; finding some sort of accomodation is in all best interests. But I'd still be hopeful that there's room for learning on the part of this young priest. There are some good ones out there!

[Gman]

14. I've taken note of recent leanings among some fundie organizations

that seem truly more Christian than the political hacks. These trends seem to be that they're starting to understand and agree that many of the social issues we espouse are really pretty good issues that they should support too in an effort to attack abortion from a root cause level rather than outright outlawing it. One of the trends in abortion thinking is that they are not going to get it outlawed, and that maybe they should work to making it, as Bill Clinton says, safe and rare through the providing of basic needs such as a good education, a good job, a home and a real future and removing the widespread despair and desperation that can lead to an abortion. My thinking is that just maybe this priest is so isolated in their echo chamber that this type of approach just never occurred to him. It doesn't take too much of an open mind to realize this approach makes a lot of sense and that Obama is a far better person than he thinks for pursuing such an agenda.

[JerseygirlCT]

16. Yup, you may be right

Sounds like you're the guy to do the job too, Gman. Good for you!

[54anickel]

7. Perhaps something in the news cycle hit him square between the eyes. The 9 year old pregnant rape

victim, Rush and and his desire for failure, the latest sexual abuse lawsuit against the church....lot's of things coming to light that may have him questioning what he once felt so sure was the absolute truth. Or it could be "pray for me that I don't loose it with you again". Or something completely unrelated.

[Gman]

15. Maybe...

I don't know. But I think I did get him thinking last week. He really didn't loose it with me last week. He was passionate and still fired up from the homily he had given, but he didn't loose it.

I took his "pray for me" to mean, pray for him to have the wisdom to know the right thing to do and the right thing to believe whether it be his stated views last week about Obama, or maybe my stated beliefs on Obama. But I took it to pray so that he can know what is right.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. Seems to me he's just pretty smart for a younger guy

Keeping the conversation going with you is the best way to eventually reach some sort of middle ground - if it can be reached. As long as you're talking, you're not walking, you know?

And I think I'd be praying that his heart and mind stay open to what you have to say!