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One question: What does the Brazilian archbishop have to do with pedophilic priests?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:52 PM
Original message
One question: What does the Brazilian archbishop have to do with pedophilic priests?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. He is representing the Catholic Church and is essentially condoning the rape of a child.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Conemning abortion equals condoning child rape?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Did he(the church) condemn the rapist? No.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Did he condone the rapist? No.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Why doesn't the church threaten to excommunicate child rapists?
Because they want every child born...even at the cost of the mother's life. Sickeningly misogynist.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. If you attempt to answer your own question, it's usually better to have the correct answer.
Whatever else the stepfather did, he did not participate in the abortion, which is the only thing here that has anything to do with excommunication.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. He committed a horrific crime against a child, which you seem to want to gloss over.
"Whatever you do unto the least of these,you do unto me."
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The stepather commited the crime but it appears you prefer to discuss a church.
2 Timothy 2:23

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels."

Bye.


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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Because the *church* is acting like a total ass. Defending the indefensible
shows a person's true character.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. As much as I disapprove of the CC, he's not condoning the rape of a child.
He's saying that the twins were not guilty of anything.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Right. It's a punishing the children for the crime of a parent issue to them.
I don't agree with what's happened here, but not punishing children for what parents do is their standard policy. And that of a lot of pro-life folks.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. What about the crime of the (step)parent raping the girl? Should the 9-year old pay for THAT crime
with her life?

The nine-year old girl didn't commit a crime, she was the victim of a crime. Applying some high-sounding principle of not "punishing the children for the crime of a parent" doesn't apply here.

sw
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's not how they see it.
And I agree with you.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Actually, I have more in common with this brand of Pro-Life than I do with the other.
I genuinely don't understand why such babies can't be given in adoption for others to love, but I still believe that whatever right or wrong, whatever sin, whatever crime, whatever good or bad comes of such situations, it IS best that the mother (or the mother's family if there is no abuse, or a legal guardian if there is abuse) choose.
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marew Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. Umm, excuse me!!!
The little girl weighed 80 pounds and her tiny uterus would have ruptured and all three would have died. You would rather give the little girl a death sentence?!? Interesting! You are a real sweetheart!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I didn't know that and I did say, in the case of abuse, that a state appointed gaurdian
should decide and I expect, in a Pro-Choice culture, that that state appointed gaurdian would include the services of a doctor, who would have found, as you observed, that there was a threat to the life of the "mother".

And, BTW, from reading a few dozen words on the internet, you don't know what the fuck I am.

Though, by jumping to conclusions without asking a few questions to clarify, your reply makes it pretty obvious that you enjoy ridicule and un-necessary conflict, more than you enjoy diversity and understanding.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. P.S. Neither were a whole lot of dead Iraqi children.
And I can tell you for a fact, which I know from phone-banking in 2004, that plenty of Catholic parishes got the go-ahead to advocate for Bush.
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. As if a the rape of a nine-year old girl is not bad enough, he
wanted her to bear the fruit of that crime. The uterus of a 9 year old is hardly ready to deal with twins. Her life is in danger.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. They're both employed by the same guy?
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Yea, I'm sure it's in their contract.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Both connected with child rape.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. So are you by posting about it.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Both treating Brazilian children like shit, pursuing a f'ed up ideology.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 05:10 PM by EmilyAnne
Using a bogus position to pressure children to submit their bodies to an adult's whims.

Using shame as a weapon against children and their families.

Hmm.....

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. What's the bogus position? I'd like to learn how pedophiles use abortion to prey.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. The problem I had was a little different. I was taught that
not the brick and not the guys in uniform but we were the Church. I opted out many years ago but there are still lots of people that I care about who work on stuff through their parish. As far as I'm concerned, THEY are the Church, not control freaks like that archbisop or like the one here in San Francisco who engineered the strategy for H8. They can go straight to hell. My cousins and aunts and friends are not in the same category with those horrible people.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. For better or worse, it's composed of both.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Sure, but both don't deserve the oprobrium lavished (rightfully)
on people like the two archbishops.

It's funny because one of my aunts and one of my cousins who are active in their parish helped me through an abortion when I was a teenager. I don't know if I could have managed it without them, honestly. And there was never a single syllable of criticism or negativity out of them. They were awesome as possible in that situation.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. I don't know, what I do know is that he advocated for child endangerment...
and that is unacceptable. I don't give a shit what his beliefs are on abortion, that doesn't matter, this 9 year olds life was in danger, and the fetuses had to be aborted to save that life. To punish those who saved this child's life, who worked in her best interest, just shows how fucking hypocritical the so called "pro-life" Catholic Church really is.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. This is a lot more to the point.
Regardless of the moral theology of abortion, this was not the time to "remind" the girl's mother that she was excommunicated. I don't think others in his position would have acted as callously.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Frankly I don't really care about the "moral theology" of abortion...
I don't view it as a valid position to have, the Bible in this, as in most other things, is contradictory, and people can find any quote or passage to support any position of import in today's world. The only consideration that is valid is the one that leads to the least restriction on freedom for people who are already born.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. It's not that simple. Roe already draws restrictions before birth.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Roe was a muddied mess, to be frank about it...
and that has nothing to do with morality as you claimed, I stated my position, nothing more, nothing less.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. But isn't that a little like judging America by the acts of corrupt officials
while Bush was in office? I've managed to suppress the name of that idiot former doctor/senator who diagnosed that vegatative lady via a video clip. Did the Schiavo case show what fucking hypocrites you and I are? It seems to me the situation is more complicated than that.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. As an Ex-Catholic, no...
My Mom's a Catholic, born and bred, and she will die a Catholic, and she hasn't set foot in Church nor tithed a penny in 20+ years because the Church is lead by misogynistic assholes. When I say "Catholic Church" I don't mean every individual in the Church, but the leaders who are a bunch of assholes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I see. Mom and I left the Church for the same reason and
we will probably die Catholics in some sense, too.

But, that's sort of what I mean. The leadership of the Church are corrupt @ssholes. They are not your mom or me or my mom. And what winds up happening is diatribes about the Church wind up swiping at people who have nothing but contempt for those @ssholes.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I always separate Catholics from the Church, just like I separate Citizens from the Government.
The terminology may be inexact, but frankly I find it cumbersome to insert "leadership" or "hierarchy" into every diatribe about the Church. I'm lazy. :P
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Thank you; wellsaid. They sold their souls to the Republicans for Power and I will never forget.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. they have two things in common
One many catholics hate them

Two they are the excuse for those who hate catholics to propagate their misery.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. "many catholics hate them"
Aren't Catholics supposed to love their enemies?
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. and hate their friends?


sure, if the enemy is willing to listen

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Those in number two need few excuses.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. well, there is a big spectrum and reasons for number two
many use the same bible to hate catholics
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. Poe wrote on both. nt
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. I thought Poe was more into drugs and incest.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #44
47.  . . .
:spank:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. Both are examples of archbishops endangering children
Either by advocating a child should run a real risk of death by trying to continue a pregnancy; or by leaving pedophile priests in charge of parishes to sexually abuse more children.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. That's the closest connection I've seen posted.
And without reckless rhetoric.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
48. Doctrine before Jesus! Dogma before scripture! Rules before compassion! Threat before mercy!
No room for love. No room for Jesus.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Is this a propos my question?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. I think so.
You asked a question. I answered it.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. Consistent lack of love (care) for all suffering children. nt
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. It may be for these two but you'd be hard pressed to apply it across the spectrum of the Church.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. You named "archbishop" and "pedophile priests".
You can add to that anyone else who goes along with their policy of child endangerment, which by all appearances, spreads across the spectrum.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Do you want to stand by your statement that Catholics across the spectrum support child endangerment
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Do they
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 10:18 AM by Why Syzygy
support the Church leaders with their attendance and funds?

I'm sorry. I can fully understand wanting to distance oneself from heartless leaders. I once walked out of a church and never went back because the preacher was proclaiming the 'virtues' of corporal punishment for children!

We have choices.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
53. Condoning or ignoring child rape?
Focusing blame on the victims instead of the perpetrators?

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. If he is a Catholic archbishop, and you are talking about Catholic priests,
then one connection would be the Catholic church.
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