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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:01 AM
Original message
Catholics Check In -- Orthodox Also Welcome

I'm curious as to how many Catholic and Orthodox Christians are currently active at DU. Roman Catholics, Maronites, American Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc., please sign in and tell us which branch you belong to.

I'm also interested in starting a DU Group for Catholics and Orthodox with bylaws to disallow non-members of the group from criticizing our faith in our group threads. I think they have plenty of room here to attack Catholicism and we deserve and need a space of our own. I assume Skinner will allow this since the astrology group has bylaws that disallow skeptics.

So please sign in and also tell me if you want to form a Catholic group. We'll need ten DUers who are current donors to start a group but Catholics and Orthodox who aren't donors may also join once we have a group approved.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Roman Catholic here:
I agree that there should be a forum where our religion is respected, even if it means banning others from the forum. All you have to do is put "Catholic" or "Pope" in the subject line, and the Catholic haters will come out of the woodwork.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. 3 Catholic flavors - but you do not mention C of E (Anglican)???
I assume Coptic are in with the Greek, although Russian seems a separate flavor in your list.

This is complicated stuff!

:toast:

:-)
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The Cof E is a protestant church
It split off during the reformation and ever since the English have always considered themselves a protestant nation with the Church of England as a protestant church.

And if we get into that history we could be here all day!
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ah - you must read BofCP - they think they are Catholic - see Pope as
Bishop of Rome - and all Bishops are by laying on of hands - and are equal in authority (1856 infallible and Mary worship are not picked up - but all else is the same)
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scarlet_owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm in RCIA, so I will be a Catholic.
A Catholic group sounds great.
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LibLabUK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. Good luck with that!!
My dad used to be an RCIA catechist..
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Roman Catholic here
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:47 AM by ih8thegop
I'm not gonna let Church politics interfere with my love of God!
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I also join in petitioning for a Catholic group!
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:09 PM by ih8thegop
:thumbsup:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks! I'll add you to the list.

:-)
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. The church politics is beginning to drive me from the church
Especially the right-wing bias of (some) bishops. No, I'm not talking about the pro-life issue. I'm talking about the in-your-face Republican talking points being passed off as Church doctrine.

I already had walked out of Mass once, about 2 years ago, because Father Bushbot was politicking from the pulpit.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. I've got two...
On my mother's side is Roman Catholic (good old Irish blood) and on my father's side is Byzantine Catholic (good old Slovak blood) I was baptized BC but I refuse to go to that church anymore (long story) so when I do attend church it is a local RC church.

I'll pop into that group if someone makes it. I'm at a point in my life where I'm still trying to find my faith
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Interesting combination - like my own!
The Hagia Sophia seems so empty today as the turks call it a museum.

Why Byzantine Catholic are Orthodox, but not Greek Orthodox, is beyond my learning.

I remember one community where the Orthodox rented space(very, very nominal rent) from 6 am to 7 Sunday at the Angligan Church - and I more often than not was an Anglican so as to sleep an extra hour! Indeed over time I became treasurer of a different Anglican Church. My mother had such a problem with a non-RC marriage that I attended only for events of relatives.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. thats basically what I am
I am a Slav Irish Catholic, but I am German too.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I prefer the RC mass
over the BC one, I'm not a fan of the chanting and incense through out the liturgy, we never had an organist in my church growing up, which I was always disappointed in. I guess thats part of the reason why I prefer the RC mass, I like the music better
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. my grandmother a Slovak was orginally of the other Catholic faith
She said they were Greek Catholic, I think she meant Byzentine. Anyhow, Irish-Slavic combo is the best IMO.
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Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you on this one...
Irish-Slavic people are the best! ;-)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
75. Hi, JohnKleeb, could you please drop by

the Religion & Theology forum and read and post your approval of the guidelines I drew up for the Catholic/Orthodox group?

I'd like to get everyone's approval before I sent our application, if possible.

Thanks,

DB DB

(The thread title says "OK, all you motley Catholics/Orthodox, time to VOTE.")
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Cradle R. Catholic, now an Episcopalian (Anglican Catholic)
Not really Protestant, not really R. Catholic -- somewhere in between. Pope is a bishop of Rome, but has no authority over all. Liturgy is very like the R.C. mass I grew up with.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. In for it
and I am glad you included the Orthodox too.
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Tesibria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. recovering fundy turning catholic ...
...very interested in group.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hi, everyone, and thanks for checking in. Perhaps we should
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:18 PM by DemBones DemBones
open up our proposed group membership to anyone who has interest in Catholic issues and is respectful of Catholic beliefs and the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. That doesn't preclude discussion of Catholic beliefs or disagreement with a bishop (including the Bishop of Rome.)

I didn't include Anglicans because I think they're Protestant, as Thankfully in Brtiain said and as my English granny would have insisted. But I certainly recognize that Anglican beliefs are quite similar to Catholic beliefs and can easily see them fitting the criteria in the previous paragraph. Other Protestants may fit the criteria as well, as may many "lapsed" Catholics who rarely, if ever, attend mass but maintain respect for many of the traditions they grew up with. We can be quite catholic in our Catholic group. ;-)

By my count, we need 5 more DUers with donor stars to ask for a group. Anyone not in this list of 5 didn't specifically say they'd participate in the group, though they posted to the thread. (Hmm, maybe I need to PM those folks. . .)

UPDATE: Now we are SIX! Four more needed.

1. Tesibria
2. JohnKleeb
3. scarletowl
4. ReverendSmitty
5. DemBones DemBones
6. Ih8theGOP
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. Another Catholic DUer checking in
Sign me up
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Welcome, it's good to see you here!

:hi:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Count me in
:-)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Will do. Thanks for raising the Anglo-Cathoic issue and

making me re-think how to define this group. ;-)
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ex-altar boy with a star here
St Andrew RCC, Saginaw, Michigan. Count me in.
John
As long as it doesn't mean I have to like Notre Dame football, 'cuz I don't.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks, John, and don't worry about Notre Dame,


supporting the Fighting Irish is definitely not required for our proposed group.

:hi: Greetings from NW Georgia where it may be as cold as Saginaw --
thermometers are hovering between 28 and 29 degrees F. Brrrr.

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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Pretty close
It bottomed out here last night at 27 degrees.
John
And, of course, we're waiting for the heating/cooling guy to get over here to check out and fire the furnace (the basement flooded this spring and water may/may not have gotten into the motor -- I'm not turning the thing on until that's been checked out).
Fortunately, this 1877 house was built complete with a lovely, double-lined fireplace, so we ain't dead yet -- so long as the cordwood outside holds up (about four more days).
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Battered Catholic here, Irish variety
"Battered" in the sense that my faith in the Church has been hit hard the past few years, between the scandals and the right-wing slant so many of the hierarchy have taken. It's the good folk I've known that keep me from leaving--some of the laypeople, priests and nuns I've met in my life, public people like Fr Greeley and the late Cardinal Bernadin of Chicago, the best of the saints...As Fr Greeley says, It's our Church, too.

I'm interested in the Celtic variant of the faith--it is closer to Orthodox in many respects. And yeah, count me in for the DU group request.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. We've seen some seriously bad times in the past few years,

haven't we? But Fr. Greeley is exactly right: it is our Church, too. The actions of some priests and bishops may sorely disappoint us but they are not the entire Church.

I don't know a lot about Celtic Christianity but really enjoyed the book "How the Irish Saved Civilization." I still use a grace attributed to St.Brigid that was in the book and reread the book from time to time. I loved how he distinguished between the Romans and the Catholics at the end of the book, talking about the catholic worldview being able to save civilization in the 21st century. He said the Romans always want more and more, while the Catholic -- or catholic, since it's not confined to the Catholic Church -- the catholic worldview sees there always being enough for everyone because God will provide, and we can share. Very much the conservative vs. the liberal worldview, really.

My own heritage is pretty purely English but two of my great-grandmothers were born in Ireland, so I'm 1/4 Irish, though I've yet to sort out if they were truly Irish or Scots Irish. One of them I'd always thought of as English and don't know that she spent much time in Ireland. Anyway, there must be a bit of Celtic blood in me, even if it's mostly Angle and/or Saxon. ;-)
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Well, the Irish helped settle Scotland, so it's all good!
The Scots later returned the favor(altho under duress--many moved because they were forced to).

If you like mysteries, I recommend the Sister Fidelma series by Peter Tremayne (pen name for Peter Berresford Ellis). They are set in 7th century Ireland with the slueth being an Irish nun and scholar of Irish law. Good intro to both Irish law and Celtic Christianity of the time.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Ah, synchronicity strikes -- that series

of mysteries was mentioned yesterday by someone in the Fiction forum, and I hadn't heard of it before but will check it out when I can. Thanks!
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
64. Battered Catholic is right!
I'm beginning to think Opus Dei is really taking over the Church in America :scared:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. Have you been reading

"The DaVinci Code" again? ;-)


Seriously, it'll be nice to be able to discuss Opus Dei, which I doubt any of us have much use for, without a lot of irrelevant, and thus disruptive, comments about Galileo or indulgences. I know we're all concerned about the archconservatives in the Church as well as the right wing in our country.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
26. Cradle Catholic Here. Still practicing.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Good for you and welcome -- you've

been here at DU nearly 700 posts but I don't think I've "met" you before. :hi:

I have been Catholic only fifteen years, but like a lot of converts, I always felt drawn to Catholicism when I was growing up.

I kiddingly asked my priest once if I could say I'm a cradle Catholic, though I was raised Protestant, since I was born in a Catholic hospital.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
29. OK, we've got ten now so we can ask for a group,

but of course the more the merrier! Anyone who wants to be added to our list, just let me know.

I'll write up a mission statement and post it for your input before I submit it to the admins.

1. Tesibria
2. JohnKleeb
3. scarletowl
4. ReverendSmitty
5. DemBones DemBones
6. Ih8theGOP
7. Stop the Pendulum
8. papau
9. 5th Generation Democrat
10. Maeve
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. Here is my first draft of the guidelines

for our group. I'm not sure if we are also supposed to propose a name for the group but would "Catholic and Orthodox Christian Issues Group" cover it well enough?



This Group is for those who wish to hold respectful discussions of Catholic and/or Orthodox Christian beliefs, share faith experiences, post prayer requests, discuss Catholic/Orthodox liturgies, traditions, saints, etc., or in any way positively explore issues having to do with the Roman Catholic Church or any rite of the Catholic or Orthodox Church.

Participants need not be practicing members of one of the Catholic or Orthodox rites but should be respectful of the beliefs and structures of the rites, especially in advocating any changes, such as allowing women to serve as priests.

This group is intended to be a venue for those who desire to discuss stated topics and is not intended as a forum to argue against Catholic/Orthodox belief or the Catholic/Orthodox Churches, members, or clergy.


I'll check back in a few hours for your input on the guidelines I've drawn up.
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I like it as far as it goes
Catholic education and Catholic social organizations could be in there, too (don't tell anyone, but I'm a lapsed third-order Knight of Columbus. Next order I get fitted for the tuxedo and the plumed hat).
John
Probably isn't ever going to happen. I've been lapsed for quite some time now -- though somewhat less lapsed regarding Mass.
Mostly I'd just like a place to discuss "Catholic" and "Catholicism" without it turning into yet another food fight. Here's hoping.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Good idea. I don't know how much detail to include

but just saying we'd discuss the faith and issues didn't seem descriptive enough. I'll go back and read all the groups' guidelines for clues on how much detail others have used. I just looked over a couple of the statements before I wrote up the draft.

I agree about wanting to be able to discuss without food fights. I think debating the pros and cons of married clergy or disagreements with Church positions, etc., can be very interesting when it's done without anybody hurling Molotov cocktails that disrupt serious discussion. I've never known even one Catholic who didn't disagree with some Church teaching or policy; not many think like sheep in our flock.

You and Mr. DemBones are both part of the lapsed Knights, third order, but maybe the future will see one or both of you in feathered hats. Probably not, but not impossible. Stranger things certainly have happened in our lifetimes.


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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. Anglo-Catholic-Orthodox is interested...
...in this group. Although I practice in the Anglican Communion's ECUSA, I've studied both Catholic and Orthodox theology in depth.

Orthodox Christians might be interested in know that, yes, Anglicanism is an offshoot of Catholicism, but the Scottish Episcopal Church was greatly influenced by the Orthodox faith. For example, they do not recite the infamous "filoque" in the Creed.

When the American Episcopal Church was formed, the Scots agreed to ordain their bishops -- it was impossible for Americans to secure ordination in England because of the Revolution and the required oath of loyalty to the Crown. In exchange for this accommodation, the Scots asked that the American prayer book use the Orthodox Eucharistic Prayer -- the part between the "Sursum Corda" and the "Great Amen" -- as was the custom in the Scottish Episcopal Church.

I have thought of "swimming the Tiber" or "crossing the Bosporus" many a time, but have enough of the Protestant still in me to distrust any church that declares itself the one, true Christian Church to the exclusion of all others. Also, I'm a social liberal who believes in the full participation of women, gay men, and lesbians in the life and worship of the Church.

I like to think, at its best, the Episcopal Church is truly a "via media" between Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant thought and belief. However, beginning with the Elizabethan Settlement that established Anglicanism as an orthopraxy (with a unity of worship) rather than an orthodoxy (with a unity of belief), the Church has often been a tenuous compromise between disparate parties. The evangelical (or Protestant) party seems to have the upper hand now, after many years of domination by the broad (or liberal) party. Anglo-Catholics such as myself are more of a novelty than an powerful force anymore.

Holy smokes! Am I rambling or what? I just meant to say "hi, how are you, may I join your group even though I'm an Anglican?" :-)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Holy smokes, yes, you may! You are
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 07:21 PM by DemBones DemBones
obviously quite well-informed about Christian history and I'm sure some of us would like to discuss such things.

(I also think "Holy Smokes" would make a good name for our group but I'm guessing we need to use a more staidly descriptive name.)

Hold on, have to make post in LBN. . . ( Sorry, "Anonymous," the author of "Imperial Hubris" is on Hardball right now. His name is Michael Scheuer. He quit his job Friday, was Chief of CIA's Bin Laden Unit, 22 years in CIA. Very important book, IMO. A major point is that our government is clueless about Islam and how much it means to faithful Muslims.)


Back to Anglo-Catholicism. Papau raised the Episcopal issue earlier and it seems logical that anyone who wants to join us and abide by our guidelines should be welcome. We'll leave closed Communion to actual Communion. . . I'm sure that going to Episcopal church services with my English granny was one of the influences that led me to eventually "cross the Tiber." The similarities in belief are great and you all have remained truer than we have to pre-Vatican II Catholicism in parts of your liturgy, notably still kneeling at the altar rail to receive Communion. I miss that, and we no longer have an altar rail, either.

If we get our group approved, I hope your user name means you'll give us the straight dope on the Pelagian heresy and what St. Augustine wrote in response to Pelagius. I've never understood all the ramifications but I know there are reasons for discussing it today.
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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I'm not a Pelagian...
...but sometimes when I'm feeling frisky I slip into something a little semi-Pelagian. I'll describe the Pelagian heresy briefly, but you should keep in mind I think Pelagius got something of a bad rap from Augustine.

To grossly oversimplify, Pelagius did not believe in Original Sin in the sense that Adam's sin was inherited by all humankind. He taught that we were born human and that we could, in theory, choose not to sin, but that we usually didn't. In other words, the sin of Adam did not taint us from our birth, but we choose (rather quickly) to follow in Adam's footsteps through our own free will. He also believed that a regenerated life manifested itself in good works. In other words, confession of a creed meant little if it was not accompanied by visible actions.

Augustine, the great logician, wrote "Against Pelagius" because he believed that Pelagius taught that (a) humans could be sinless and (b) salvation came from works. Augustine was also concerned that Pelagius put too much emphasis on humankind's free will, or capacity to choose. Augustine believed that the free will position put limits on the sovereignty of God.

(John Calvin took up this theme later during the Reformation and carried it to its logical extremes.)

Augustine argued brilliantly and persuasively. He also had a strong party of North African bishops backing his views. The doctrine of Original Sin took firm root in the Church in the 4th century. We don't know what happened to Pelagius after that, but we've all heard of Augustine of Hippo.

My user name was a little (very little!) joke that occurred to me when signing up for DU. I'd actually been reading the board for sometime before I registered, but the rather sophomoric Christian-baiting turned me off. As the election grew closed, I wanted to post. When selecting a user name, I decided a being Christian on DU would be the closest thing to being a heretic in the liberal universe, so I picked one of history's most famous heretics as "patron saint".
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Now I get the joke in your user name! I'd wondered

about it before when I'd seen you around DU, figuring you were unlikely to be a true Pelagian. All the debates about original sin, predestination, sola scriptura, sola fides, etc., get confusing, especially trying to figure out which Christian church or sect believes what. In the Ango- and Roman Catholic traditions, the Nicene Creed covers the basic theology pretty well but there are still a lot of angels dancing on pinheads.

Augustine was quite a character. DId Pelagius ever have a chance, once Augustine took him on?
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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Pelagius did have a chance...
...and argued his case so well when brought up on heresy charges, he was acquitted twice. The whole story can be found at:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm

Augustine was quite a character.

The history of Christianity might be quite different if Augustine had stayed with his mistress, rather than join the Church.
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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
48. Small correction in the above post...
...I stated that the doctrine of Original Sin was firmly established in the 4th century. I meant the 400s or 5th century.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. You said that very well
And explained far better than I my feelings on the Episcopal church.

I was raised R.C., so the liturgy is quite comfortable and familiar to me, but I've also noticed Orthodox friends joke that I'm a closet Orthodox... many similarities in belief.

I love what you said about orthopraxy and orthodoxy. I'd never heard that, but it makes complete sense.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Hey. Jerseygirl, glad to see you back.

:hi:

I think we'll have some great discussions here.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Well, thanks!
I hope so, too.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
44. A friend of mine--
--recently told me she was an atheist Catholic, and I kind of get what she means. You can take the girl out of the Catholic school, but you never take the Catholic school out of the girl. I can really relate to Kucinich, who, when asked if he was a practicing Catholic, said "I practice all religions." I'm kind of eclectic myself. I used to give up candy for Lent, and now I give up fast food hamburger to save the rain forest.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. I never heard it said that way before, but

Pat Conroy wrote that you can no more be an ex-Catholic than you can be an ex-Oriental, meaning pretty much the same thing, I'd say.

Dennis may not be a traditional Catholic anymore but I'll take his religious philosophy over the strict by-the-numbers Catholicism of a Rick Santorum. Dennis has developed spiritually throughout his life and I'm not sure Santorum has, else how could he remain in a party that supports the death penalty and shafting the poor. Jesus said "Feed my lambs," not "Let them eat cake."
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Catholicism
is as much a culture as it is a religion. There are just some things that are learned that don't go away, even when a person stops going to church.

Like the superstition thing. No matter how much Logic or Science I ever took, I still can't get over being superstitious.

Also, the whole 'if I don't like it, it must be good for me' thing.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. Very true
I think in many ways, being Catholic is as much a cultural thing as a religious thing.
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
45. Hello!
I was just browsing the groups outside of the political sphere, and I'd thought that I'd pop in to say hello. I'm a Roman Catholic; May I lurk for a while?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Come on in, we've got

:donut: :donut:

provided by the K of C. Welcome!
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. Wandering catholic
Grew up Irish Catholic but am very influenced by other beliefs now. RC beliefs still have a hold on me.
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. I am a practising, believing Roman Catholic
and an ardent left-wing liberal.

and this is my very first DU post!

By 'donor' do you mean financial donor? Taking up collections and Catholicism go hand in hand, I suppose.

But anyway, hi everyone!
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Welcome
Ooops! I said that I was gonna lurk, hugh!?

Well, hello, and nice to meet you. :hi:
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Nice to meet you too
Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

The inherently invisible (Los Angeles) meets the intrinsically visible (Sacramento). :toast:
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Welcome to DU!
By "donor" Dem Bones means a financial donor to DU--being a Democrat and being asked for money go hand in hand, too! Helping to start groups is one of the privileges that go with the nifty star by your user name if you can kick into the kitty to help run the board.
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Roman Catholic....
teach CCD, former President of one of the largest Catholic Churches in Central Florida, and proud Democrat!
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Great! Glad to

have you here! :hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Hi Stunster!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. Wow, I just saw you up in LBN

(that's DUspeak for Late Breaking News) and invited you to come here! I welcomed you there but welcome again.

Donors -- To start a Group, which is different from a Forum, we have to have a minimum of 10 DU donors signed up, which we have already. You can recognize donors by the gold star up near their user name. There's no minimum donation and only donors will be able to post in the new group, or any other group, so those without a star may wish to acquire one. You can also do searches if you have a star, and probably some other perks that I can't think of, or don't know.

No second collection for the missionaries, though! ;-)
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
59. Another Roman Catholic here
Who has just about had it with the Know-Nothing Catholic bashing that's rampant almost everyplace else here on the otherwise "liberal and enlightened" DU. DemBones, I was very seriously considering leaving DU until I saw your post just now in LBN that directed someone else here. So thanks.

I will make a donation to get a board of our own.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. I'm so glad you saw my post and came here.

We need Solidarity! I know other Catholics (and other Christians) have left DU, and who knows how many have left without ever saying a word about why, or never registered because of what they saw?

I just alerted on that thread, BTW. They're actually trashing the pope for saying to other religious leaders that religions need to work against violence!

I do understand that it's valid to criticize an institution, a public figure, etc., but it's always against US, and many, many posts exhibit bigotry, not mere criticism. Nobody else gets slammed as much as Catholics and other Christians, and DUers are ever-so-polite in discussing Muslims/Islam and Jews/Judaism. I have discussed it with Skinner and he wrote me a very thoughtful letter about the problem. I know he doesn't want to get involved in censorship and he has to trust the mods to make good judgements on what to delete.

If people would act like adults, we could have much better discussions.

End of rant. I'm really glad you're staying and I, too, am an Angry Old Dem! :7
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Looking forward to posting here...
And thanks for putting an alert on that thread. The comments were uncalled for.

Trouble is, just like the Pope, if we stand up for ourselves, we get slammed. But just how much are we supposed to take?

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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. Well said!
I'm certainly used to some anti-religious sentiment in liberal circles. But the pure ignorance of Catholic history and doctrine is pretty appalling. I would think those who claim to have some insight into how societies should run might want to consider how people live and believe, not only today, but throughout history.

I received a fairly good undergraduate education from a well-regarded liberal arts institution and, I must say, much of what's covered at that level is "The Church was corrupt and silenced Gaileo, then came the Enlightenment and now our story begins." I can only imagine what you get if you're getting your history of ideas in a few required non-major survey classes.

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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
60. Here. n/t
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 09:12 PM by 420inTN
Edit: I'm a lapsed Roman Catholic. I don't attend Mass, but I still try to practice the faith.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Welcome! I'm about to start another thread to

get everyone to vote on the statement of purpose for the group so we can get moving on this.
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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I voted n/t
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. I voted! nt
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
70. Here's the link to VOTE for our group,

to approve the statement of purpose we have to submit for approval


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Would like to get everyone's approval before the end of the weekend, if at all possible. Need at least ten donors who have signed up to approve the statement, I think.

Thanks, everyone, Catholics/Orthodox on the move at DU!

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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Got all your donors yet?
Because I'm getting ready to send some bucks DU's way...
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. A couple of people who indicated interest in the

group don't have stars yet, so if you want to give away a star or two, that's be great! I found out that non-donors won't be able to post in groups, just read there, so everyone will probably want a star.

We do have anough donors to apply, but I'd like everyone to vote to approve the statement of principles before I do that.

Anyone reading this who hasn't voted, please do! GO to the other threa, telling "all motley Catholics and Orthodox to VOTE!"
I am also sending PMs to remind those who haven't voted.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
73. I would also be interested in a Catholic group.
Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 11:44 AM by newyawker99
I am an American Catholic.

:hi: DBDB!
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Hi, newyawker99, I didn't know you were

American Catholic! Lots of Catholics of all sorts in New Yawk, right?

Glad you will join us! :hi:
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
78. looks good DBDB
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
79. Anglo-Catholic here - any Old Catholics around?
I've done some heavy corresponding with an Archbishop in the Old Catholic church. If the Anglican Church gets any more evangelical I may end up there.
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Mrs_Beastman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
80. Hello
Don't go as much as last year, having a little spiritual crisis
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