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To my Catholic friends--I hope you enjoy your holy day.

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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:21 AM
Original message
To my Catholic friends--I hope you enjoy your holy day.
The Immaculate Conception is probably the most misunderstood holy day of the calendar.
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks! nt
:)
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm hardly what one would call
a practicing Catholic, though I was raised one. It seems to me the Holy Days were never to be enjoyed, more like endured! :)
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. What was that line from Dogma?
"You people don't celebrate your faith; you mourn it"
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. After Immaculate Conception is there a Sloppy-Seconds Conception? n/t
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Mary had siblings, right? n/t
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Immaculate Conception means that Mary was born without Original Sin.
It does not mean that Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Repeat after me: Immaculate Conception is the doctrine that says that Mary was conceived without Original Sin.

It relates to HER birth.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Don't forget the knuckle rap for those who get this wrong.
The whole Catholic experience.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. On what date was the Immaculate Conception?
The vernal equinox?

(Yes, I know it is a moot point since Dec. 25 is not the likely date for the birth of Jesus, but do the Catholics ever celebrate the day God stuck it to Mary?) :)
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. This is Mary's conception
that is celebrated. I know of no holiday to celebrate Mary getting pregnant, but we just need to count back 9 months and know Mary's date of last period and we are golden.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. You've never heard of the Feast of the Annunciation?
March 25, of course, nine months before Christmas. This is when Gabriel told Mary that she was going to be an unwed mother. Soon after -- the date would indicate latter that same day -- the Holy Spirit "overshadowed" her and she conceived.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Well, he can't serve as savior because he doesn't have
A birth certificate. He may have been born in Kenya for all we know!
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Tradition puts it on December 8
It was established as a "universal feast" (ie was to be observed by all Catholics) by Pope Sixtus IV in 1476.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. To save the papists the time
The immacualte conception is OF Mary, not by Mary. The idea being that Mary was from birth free from sin, so to make her a suitable vessel for the other conception.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I think I like the Greek/Roman gods better.
They weren't so picky about who they'd fuck, not all hung up on the "purity" thing.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. Did you know that Mary has more holy days than Jesus?
For those unfamiliar with this teaching of the Roman Catholic Church: The Church holds that Adam and Eve's rebellion against God have "tainted" human existence with what is called "original sin." This taint is passed on from one generation to the next in the inherently sinful act of sex. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception says that, while conceived in the normal way, God prevented Mary from being given original sin, ie that her conception was clean of this taint. This was in preparation for her to become a suitable brood mare for God's Son who, despite being human, was not to know anything whatsoever about sin, even through contact from his mother's womb.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Dude, you said "taint." Twice.
Yeah, it's a kind of disturbing holiday, but still.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Three times, actually, if you count the word "tainted"
My apologies for not having a thesaurus handy. :hi:
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. no. every Sunday is a Holy Day of obligation
every Sunday the Church celebrates the Incarnation and the Resurrection.

and it every year, based on the way the dates fall on the days of the week the liturgical calender, additional Holy Days of Obligation are sometimes co-celebrated on the Sunday closest.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's Ann Coulter's birthday too.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. and Jim Morrison's
and one of my best friends also has December 8 as his birthday.
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Didn't this holiday come out of increasing biological knowledge?
I seem to recall reading that in ancient times the believed that sin passed down through the paternal line. They were not aware that the female contributed any physical part to the conception of a baby. They thought a fetus was fully formed inside the head of the sperm and they just grew inside the womb. This is consistent with the view of a female as merely an object, in this case an incubator. But with the discovery of the ovum, it became clear that the female did indeed contribute to the formation of a child, and thus a problem arose: if Jesus is the sole product of the Holy Ghost, then he doesn't have Original Sin. However, if he is the product of Mary and the Holy Ghost, he has Mary's sin. So now we have to get rid of Mary's sin. Let's just say that she never had any to begin with. This of course creates an infinite regress: if Mary doesn't have Original Sin, then her parents mustn't have had it either, all the way back to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The logic doesn't really follow.

I don't know if I believe all that, though. It seems like an awfully convoluted story for the origin of a holiday.
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