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Rick Warren Endorses ''Taking Out'' Iranian President Ahmadinejad

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:43 AM
Original message
Rick Warren Endorses ''Taking Out'' Iranian President Ahmadinejad
WARREN ENDORSES HANNITY'S WARMONGERING

The Washington Monthly
Steve Benen 4:30 PM
December 4, 2008


Pastor Rick Warren has a reputation for being far more stable and grounded than religious right leaders and TV preachers like Pat Robertson, but it's worth remembering that he's not exactly a moderate.

Last night, on Fox News, Sean Hannity insisted that United States needs to "take out" Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Warren said he agreed. Hannity asked, "Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?" Warren responded, "Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped.... In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers."

Matt Duss explained why Warren's comments are problematic on a variety of levels.

    Does Warren really consider it part of his ministry to sanctify the inch-deep theologizing-cum-warmongering of thugs like Sean Hannity? If so, who else does Warren think Jesus would bomb?

    I contacted Pastor Warren's office for clarification, specifically to find out where, exactly, the Bible says that "God puts government on earth to punish evildoers" like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They said they'd get back to me. I'll update if and when they do. I suspect Warren was referring to Romans 13, in which the Apostle Paul admonished Christians to submit to governing authorities (Hear that Hannity? Submit!), and also addressed the power of civil government to punish criminals. This has nothing to do, as far as I know, with invading foreign countries and killing their leaders, which is the context in which Warren is speaking.

    In any case, if this were a conversation between an Iranian TV host and an ayatollah in which they discussed scriptural justifications for "taking out" high ranking members of the U.S. government, you'd probably see Sean Hannity running the clip on his show -- while slowly shaking his head in pious disapproval -- as evidence of what crazy extremists those Iranians are. As it is, they'll probably be running this on Iranian TV as evidence of what crazy extremists those Americans are.

Later, Warren's office called Duss back to say the pastor was, in fact, referring to Romans 13. When Duss noted the chapter and verse make no reference to killing foreign leaders, Warren's representative said she'd have to look into it. Something to keep in mind the next time Warren presents himself as the leader of a new breed of reasonable evangelical leaders.

LINK

- The word "reasonable" (nor any other derivatives of the word 'reason'), and the word "evangelical" should never be used in the same sentence.....
==============================================================================
DeSwiss


The Atheist Toolbox





"Prayer is just a way of telling god that his divine plan for
you is flawed -- and shockingly stingy" ~ Betty Bowers
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Rick Warren
and the rest of this money stealing RW church loving cult can kiss my pale white ass. Fuck him and fuck anyone that gives him credibility or a voice.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Got it.
Same here.


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Warren is likely fearful that Franklin Graham is perceived as the greater
profile of a cynical, definitely unstable, and likely psychotic religious leader, and with these comments, he's letting the competition know that he can be as cynical, unstable and psychotic as anybody.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. No doubt.....and he SOOOO wants in on the $$ Rapture Leader$hip.
.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yep. Ol' Rick wants to be first in the line for the Grand Cafeteria.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I hadn't ever heard of him until....


- I knew he was nuts after that though....
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. It appears that Warren lives by the sword...
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. No.
But he doesn't mind it if others do in the glorification of his god.

- And his ego. Of course.....
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Yep, and it was Jesus who said,
"Put your sword away, for those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. The very same Jesus who also said...
"I came not to bring peace but a sword." So he just picks different bible verses to live by.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Indeed....
....and not only does he say he intends to set people against one another, then, once they've got a handle on things....



- For "some reason" people often miss those parts.....
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Oh, don't be silly.
That was just a parable. Even though Jesus was telling it, and the character who said those words represented him.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. go back and read Luke 19
Verse 27 doesn't really fit in with the rest of the chapter

anyway, Jesus doesn't really "reign over" anyone unless they are dead

if Jesus was going to tell his followers to go kill non-believers, it would be mentioned more often than this one time


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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. To set son against father, and daughter against mother and
daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. Jesus was basically saying to his disciples, whom he sent out to stand with the poor and the oppressed, and to stand against the oppressors that when you stand against the oppressors, you will experience opposition, even from your own household. Oppressors rarely want to cede their position of dominance over those they oppress.

But, I doubt Rev. Warren even understands that. After all, he is one of the oppressors of the world.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yup, everyone can spin pretty much anything they want out of the bible.
And just about all of it is equally justified. After all, when something is written, rewritten, translated, adapted, transcribed, re-translated, edited, re-translated, and edited again by hundreds of people over thousands of years, well, yeah, there's going to be some mixed messages. I've seen liberal believers right here in this forum just as insistent there is ONE and ONLY ONE interpretation of the bible as the most rabid right-wing fundie. Weird stuff.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I hear that. It's hard for some Christians, right or left, to come to the realization
that the Bible is not infallible. It does contradict itself. That said, I do think there is a lot of truth that can be gleaned from the Bible--as well as the Quran, and other so-called "sacred" writings. Truth is truth regardless of the source. As a believer in a higher-power, I would say all truth is God's (or perhaps, the gods') truth, regardless of the source. Falsehood, though, abounds in all human writings, including the Bible.

Searching for truth makes life interesting, IMO. Too much dogma in the world. Leads to evil. Funny how religion, which is supposed to make life better is often the root of evil acts.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. How Christian of him.
I'm sure that's what Jesus did -- contemplated which people to "take out."
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Yeah I know what you mean.
- Didn't he cover this in that "Sermon on the Mount" thing??? The mean the cable version.
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predfan Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. There's your danger in the constant blending of religion and politics we've endured over the
last few years; idiots like Warren representing themselves as children of God..........
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Actually I think Rick...
...sees himself a little higher up the food chain that a mere "child of god."


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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. Trying to speed up the Apocolypse time line, Rick? Another blood thirsty evangelical.
Why are some of the followers of the Prince of Peace such warmongers?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Who is this "Prince of Peace" of whom you speak???
- He should start a religion!!!

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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. He would be thrown out of a lot of "Christian" churches today, that's for sure.
For being "un 'murican". Sucker doesn't even speak English.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Well, it depends....
- upon which Jesus shows up....

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ahhhhhh....how sweet.
An unprovoked, purpose-driven assassination in cold blood.

How lovely.

WWJMOOSSAI? (Who would Jesus murder out of sheer stupidity and ignorance?)

:eyes:
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. WWJMOOSSAI? (Who would Jesus murder out of sheer stupidity and ignorance?)
LOVE IT!!!

- Although, it'll be hard to put on a button.....
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. A whole new meaning to a "Purpose-Driven Life."
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. When the purpose is to try and kill reason and truth....
...having religion at one's back is the way we've always done it.



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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. The bible as an authority on good government?
I think anyone citing the bible as advice on how government should be conducted ought first to explain why it doesn't advocate democracy.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. And as luck would have it.....
...I have the perfect cliche' button for this situation!


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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. Uh, Mr. Warren, the Bible also says,
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:22 AM by rateyes
do not return evil for evil, but overcome evil with good. "Is your enemy hungry? Then, you feed him." Those were Jesus' words.

In fact, those words, unlike the ones you quoted are attributed to Jesus. I guess you are saying that Jesus would assassinate a world leader. And, those verses you quoted about government, applied to ancient Rome---Paul was telling those subject to Rome (not a free people) to submit themselves to Rome's authority. That means, he would be telling the people of Iran to submit themselves to Iranian authority.

Your mistreatment of the biblical text tells me a lot about you.

You, sir, are one lousy theologian, and not much of a Christian.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Yeah but....
...he was on Hannity, remember?

Hannity's viewers certainly don't know about theologians. Nor Christianity for that matter.

- But then, only a handful do....

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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. "Great shot of Insanity! Love the single eyebrow.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. And I endorse taking out fundie whack-jobs. And I ain't talking dinner and a movie.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Usually....
...if we let them keep flapping their soup-coolers, they generally "take-out" themselves.

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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. The Peace Award he gave Dubya "was not about peace"
He said that in the same interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaMhnOOuirk
(51 second excerpt)

I'm still mightily annoyed that he when snapped his fingers the presidential candidates came running.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Annoyed?
- I'm royally pissed. Hell, even Kathleen Parker called the cadidate's appearances a "religious test." The "oogedy-boogedy" factor:

As long as the religious right is seen as controlling the Republican party, the GOP will continue to lose some percentage of voters, and that percentage likely will increase over time as younger voters shift away from traditional to more progressive values. The cause is not helped when someone of the stature of Rick Warren interviews the leading presidential candidates in his church, questioning them about their faith. If thats not a religious test, I dont know what is.

The glue that binds the GOPs religious right social issues, especially abortion is not insignificant and doesnt deserve to be dismissed. But nor should those issues be tied to scripture. Some religious conservatives understand this, but the memo apparently isnt reaching all the pews. They might take a cue from Nat Hentoff, a self-described Jewish-atheist, who has written as eloquently as anyone about the indivisibility of life and the slippery slope down which abortion leads. He uses logic and reason to argue that being pro-life, rather than resolving the religious question of ensoulment, is really a necessary barrier against selective killing, such as when someone else decides its your time to die.

Hentoffs arguments, and others on related issues, ultimately may fail. But at least they will fail for reasons other than that "oogedy-boogedy" got in the way.


I absolutely hate it when I have to agree with Repukes.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Okay, I remember that
I remember nodding my head vigorously when reading it. Do I still agree? Lemme check... yep, the Repub was clearly righteous. Cripes, I don't know who's what or what's where anymore.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. PURPOSE DRIVEN LIE
Rick Warren is also a homophobe who is thanking gawd for Prop 8. :puke:
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. Rick Warren is a scumbag
And what was the reason again that Obama agreed to participate in the Saddleback Forum?
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. people like Rick Warren make me want to bang my head against the wall
I don't remember Jesus saying anything about killing people you don't like

the theology of these people never fails to amaze me-they twist the Bible into a book of hate

no wonder non-believers tend to paint all Christians as bigots


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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. Lest we forget.....
...what an asshole Rick Warren truly is. Apparently "someone" didn't vet the Warren invocation decision well enough.

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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. That is a shame. Warren deserves absolute obscurity, but
he keeps getting thrown into the spotlight. He is a third rate hack and a homophobe. He needs to step down as pastor and just go to an island somewhere. :(
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. When one considers the deft, applomb and efficiency....
...with which the Obama campaign just dazzled us, I cannot believe that this decision wasn't deliberate, if not also a political gem. Though a blatantly solicitous act, Obama knows in the end that he can't bow to the forces who stand against Choice, nor Gays without dividing the party further. And his appointments of Pro-choice and pro-gay's will see to it that no policy decision of the religious-right's social agenda will get anywhere. I believe Obama knows this. Whether it has any long-term benefits, remains to be seen. He has already indicated that he intends to repeal most of Bush's Executive Orders related to reproductive issues.

And yet I agree with you totally. He's a crass showman, and just another peddler of hocus-pocus mythology.

The RR's on the other hand, no doubt see this as an opportunity to try and marginalize the Pro-choice and Pro-gay factions to the outer edges of the Dem party -- from the inside. Warren's appeal seems to be with the younger Evangelicals. A group, whom according to Barna Group polls, are more into the saving of people through international hunger and education programs, instead of saving people from themselves and their "sin of homosexuality and abortion." And for that matter -- the sin of sex of any kind outside of a man and a woman -- and only when securely within the bonds of matrimony -- and preferably only in the missionary position. With your eyes closed. ;)

But why waste a perfectly good island on the likes of Rick? I say we put him into a rocket, along with all of our other nuclear and toxic waste and send it toward the sun.

- I'm only thinking of the environment!
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I agree with DeSwiss, but I said the thing about the
island because I did not want to sink to his level. I don't want to "take him out." I just want him out of his current job and in obscurity.

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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'm astounded that people don't think that our foreign should improve the situation.
Any idiot can predict that the murder of a foreign leader will have only negative repercussions. All morality aside, it's just a dumb idea. It would only make things worse. Why doesn't anybody ever think about that?

This is a perfect illustration as to why we should not use religious doctrine to inform policy.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. What Warren suggests....
...is in reality little more than what religionists have always done, or called for being done, and fomented action toward -- from time immemorial.

The "holy sanctioning" from such modern-day saints, of the use of political and military force to achieve some godly end, is one of many upon a long continuum. With it, they have justified killing, torturing and enslavement, and forced religious conversion. Christian religious dogma in particular, with its natural tendency toward separation and exclusionary practices against all non-adherents into groups of "the other," has always been its stock-in-trade.

And you're right: "This is a perfect illustration as to why we should not use religious doctrine to inform policy." And yet those who profess no belief in any god, are the last ones that Americans would vote for to make that policy.

- "The last shall be first," indeed....
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. What really asound me is that
even people of other religions seem to find no problem with the idea of religion informing policy. It's just the wrong religion, that's all.
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