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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:29 PM
Original message
Ask a Mormon
I'm new to this board but from reading some of the threads in the Religion Forum I think it likely that a lot of DU members actually know very little about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ( the "Mormons".) My guess is that most board members are intelligent and actively seeking to learn the truth about subjects they are interested in. Maybe I can help in this one respect.

I don't know it all but I've been an active member of the LDS Church for long enough that even though I can only speak for myself, I think I can come close to representing the views and understandings of most active mainstream Mormons. I'll do my best to respond to sincere civil questions about the Mormons in this "Ask a Mormon" thread. (And will try to remain civil myself - no guarantees though. :-)

Please keep in mind that I am not an official spokesperson for the church and speak only for myself, thanks.


-----
For anyone who is interested in anonymously learning more about the "Mormons" below are some of the official websites of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


Basic Beliefs and Q&A for Investigators:

http://www.mormon.org


Mormons testify of Jesus Christ the Son of God:

http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng /


LDS Newsroom: official statements, current issues, statistics, etc:

http://newsroom.lds.org


Find your family roots on the world's largest online databases - free of charge:

http://www.familysearch.org


The life and mission of Joseph Smith, first Prophet of the LDS Church:

http://www.josephsmith.net


Provident living: preparing for emergencies, food storage etc.:

http://www.providentliving.org


The LDS canon online: read or listen to the Bible, Book of Mormon etc.:

http://scriptures.lds.org


LDS temples, the House of the Lord:

http://www.lds.org/temples


Official Site - mainly for members:

http://www.lds.org


For persons with disabilities and their families:

http://disabilities.lds.org



---
An unofficial apologetic website that is fair to the Latter-day Saints: responses to critics of the LDS Church, its history, beliefs, religious practices, etc:

http://fairlds.org


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That's Uncalled For. nt
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Too fucking bad. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Please cool it. I work with a couple of Mormons. They are not personally bad people.
I know jerks in just about every denomination. I know atheist jerks too. Likewise, there is a difference between the membership of a group and its leadership. Just let the poster respond before you attack them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. If they tithe
They bear reaponsibility for the evil doings their church engages in.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. That too. n/t
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. The all tithe... you cannot be a Mormon without tithing
And they all support a bigoted organization, by definition.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
92. Tithing
There are a lot of Mormons who don't tithe, and probably a lot Catholics and members of other Christian denominations as well. But churches have expenses, they've got to raise money some way. Yes, you can be a Mormon and not pay tithes. But the faithful usually do.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:28 PM
Original message
There are a lot of propositions to fund.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
113. From the DU rules:
4: ...Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements...

I think this post is about as clear a violation of that as it's possible to imagine.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. The OP has posted several other violations of DU rules.
This entire thread needs to be locked and the OP troll escorted from the premises. I defended it at first but got kicked in the teeth for my efforts. If you read all its posts, it's business here is clear.

It's a shame, but there it is.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #116
139. Sorry about that. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #139
142. I wasn't talking about you!
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #116
148. If the OP spoke for all Mormons, that would be relevant.
Attacking a poster is one thing; saying "there is no such thing as a good Mormon" is quite another.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #148
153. I defended the OP quite vociferously but post #79 tore it for me.
I agree with you but the poster you're defending doesn't belong here either. The thread needs to be locked.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #153
163. I'm criticising a subpost, not defending the OP.
I agree that the OP is fairly clearly not a liberal, and while I don't think they're a troll as such - they appear to be making a sincere attempt to communicate - I still don't think they belong here; that's not what DU is for.

But what I was doing was criticising one of the sub-posts which when from attacking the OP to attacking all mormons, not defending the OP.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #163
168. The OP is a bigot who is opposed to human rights for gay people as made clear in their posts here.
Their expression of this particular opinion is a violation of DU rules. Further, they are not making a sincere effort to communicate. They are ignoring questions.

I agree with you about the sub-posts as well.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. my husband works with a few mormons.
he says they are nice, hardworking people, but they don't tell people that they're mormons unless they know them well.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
204. LDS doctrine is inherently intolerant -- it can't be anything else
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. no, it's not
the LDS is nothing but a front for "legal" discrimination against blacks (formerly), women and gays. the hell with them.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. i agree. nt
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The only thing I want to "ask a Mormon" for is to demand a fucking apology.
If you're not here to do that, then you can fucking go to Hell.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm Jewish. What Will My Fate Be After I Die?
What will be the fate of a Mormon man after death? Of a Mormon woman?
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
45. What happens when we die.
Mormons believe that when we die our spirits go to a temporary place we call the "Spirit World". The Spirit World is divided into two parts: "Paradise" and "Spirit Prison". A partial judgement at death will determine which place we will be most comfortable in while we learn more about what our mortal lives were all about. In general, those who consistently chose to do evil during their earthly lives will be assigned to the "prison" while those who tried to be loving and kind to others will be assigned to "Paradise".

We can learn and can make progress during our time in the spirit worlds, by only if we choose to do so.

Sometime after the prophesied "Millennium", a thousand years of peace on this world, we will all be assigned to one of three kingdoms of glory. The spirit worlds associated with this planet will be abandoned. A few of us will not be found worthy of any kingdom of glory and will be assigned to a place known to Mormons as "Perdition".

So, Mormons believe that ALL of God's children on earth will be judged by God, with a big emphasis placed on our choices while we lived out our mortal lives. That includes people of all or no religion, and males and females.

Thanks for a civil question, obviously I'm instantly the object of a lot of hateful acting out on the part of those whose side did not get the majority of votes in the last election.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Ok, now you're starting to annoy me. What is this about sides? Whose side are you on?
If you don't believe in human rights then you aren't welcome here at DU. Read the rules. They're clear on this.

I've defended you here but I will unleash hell if you turn out to be a bigot, and I don't like the sound of your last sentence.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Here's a civil question: Are you sorry for what you did? n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. So, everyone who voted Yes on Prop 8 is going to "Spirit Prison." That's interesting. n/t
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. i'm not "acting out"
and i am not gay.

i AM for freedom and equality, and i am AGAINST those who try to use the cloak of ignorance called "religion" to deny freedom and equality to others.

buzz off.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I must be angrier than you. I said he should "fuck off" and you only said "buzz off".
Come on...

Don't hold back...


The "F-Bomb" is your friend!

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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. i was making a sort of inside Mormon reference
"Nineteenth-century leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints consciously created symbols to buttress their community. The most persistent of these pioneer symbols was the beehive.

Its origin may relate to the statement in the Book of Mormon that the Jaredites carried "with them Deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee" (Ether 2:3). The Deseret News (Oct. 11, 1881) described the symbol of the beehive in this way: "The hive and honey bees form our communal coat of arms. It is a significant representation of the industry, harmony, order and frugality of the people, and of the sweet results of their toil, union and intelligent cooperation."

Working together during this early period, individuals contributed specialized talents and skills for building an integrated and well-planned community in a hostile environment. Community, not individuality, created this persistent symbol. The beehive has appeared on public and private Mormon buildings (such as temples, tabernacles, and meetinghouses, Brigham Young's Beehive House, and the mercantile institution ZCMI) as well as in folk art and on furniture.

Today it appears as a logo of some Church-related organizations, on the seals of the state of Utah and of two universities, on Church Welfare products, and on some commercial signs in Utah. It links the Mormon community across time while symbolizing the Mormon pioneer past."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Ahh... you are smarter than me! You get the White Salamander Prize! n/t
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. i'm insulted by the nerve of the OP --
"I think it likely that a lot of DU members actually know very little about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"

SOME of us study the LDS because we know they are dangerous.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. We don't know any more as a result of this thread, that's for sure.
Hit and one-post runner.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. You forgot to mention that every Mormon male (in good standing) becomes a God
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:09 PM by Cronus Protagonist
And I'm also curious as to what happens to the dead homosexuals you guys baptize posthumously, particularly the ones that were also Jewish when alive.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
106. Eternal progression
Mormons believe that God is literally the father of the spirits that animate and integrate our mortal bodies. We believe too that God gives us an opportunity to learn and 'grow up' to become like He is, similar to the way children learn from and grow up to be like the parents of their earthly bodies. Quite a simple concept actually, but very difficult for most people to grasp or accept, that they could actually be much more than they think they are.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. I agree that you have a lot of growing up to do.
You can start by reviewing the U.S. Constitution and reminding yourself that you live in a country with laws. If you want to live in a country ruled by religious laws that reflect your own particular point of view, you are welcome to go buy an island and start your own country.

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. I already looked into that. It's harder than you'd think.
There are real estate companies that sell nothing but islands, but every one of those islands is still within the sovereign boundaries of some country or other.

Nobody is selling any islands that are in "international waters."

However, if one were to buy a mountainous region along a coastline in the right place, and wait for Global Warming to do its work, you might find yourself on an island 30 miles off the coast within 20-50 years.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #119
122. Well, it's their idea anyway so they can do the research.
I'm not about to find them a place to be happily bigoted. As long as they stay here, though, they need to play by U.S. rules.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. What about The Maldives Islands? They should move there. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #127
131. They're welcome to go anywhere. They seem to be good at running away.
(That was mean but I'm irritated with the troll now.)
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #131
162. Everyone's irritated.
Everyone's irritated right now, including me, but I'm not running away am I?

I think if everyone would cool it, give me some time to respond, and get more civil (those who are capable of civility) we can have a useful discussion. If you don't want a discussion you are always free to drift over to another topic or forum, this one's supposed to be about religion I thought.

Maybe someone can start another thread and dump on me with every angry hateful bone they've got and get it all out. Give me the name of such a hate thread and I'll promise not to respond in it, probably won't even read it. My guess is that there are a huge number of DUers who know how to discuss civilly even about things they disagree with. So far, with a few pleasant exceptions, I'm not at all impressed with the level of 'discussion' here.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #162
170. I defended you and asked several civil questions that you have ignored.
You've ignored numerous civil questions here. Further, your opinion that gay marriages are anti-religious is a violation of DU rules.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #170
185. Please clarify the rules, thanks.
Yardwork wrote: "...your opinion that gay marriages are anti-religious is a violation of DU rules."

I'd like a clarification on that from a moderator or someone in authority please. If I cannot express differences of opinion regarding religious things in the religion forum then there is no point in my continuing with this. (I wasn't aware that Democratic Underground existed to serve just the homosexual community, but perhaps I was mistaken.)

Please clarify, thanks.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #185
191. Down at the bottom of every page there is a link to Rules.
If you click it, it will take you to this page http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...

On that page, you will be surprised to find several strong statements in favor of equality for gay people, including gay marriage. You will learn that expressing opposition to gay marriage is a violation of DU rules. You will also read about your freedom to leave this forum if you don't want to abide my the rules. If you choose to stay and flaunt the rules, you will be banned. That is all.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #185
192. It's not a "religious thing." It's a "Civil Rights" thing.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 05:28 PM by IanDB1
This is a Progressive board that respects diversity and equality.

That INCLUDES the "homosexual community" and members of the PROGRESSIVE Religious Community.

The "Homosexual Community" is part of the AMERICAN Community.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #111
146. No desire to live in Iran
Actually, I don't want to live in a country ruled by religious laws. If I did I'd probably consider moving to Iran or some such place.

Here's the 11th of the LDS Articles of Faith. It's in our canon, a firm part of Mormon belief, written about 1830 by Joseph Smith the first Prophet of the LDS Church:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #146
155. How do you reconcile that with your church's actions regarding Proposition 8?
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #155
166. Ask me later
That's civil. Please ask me again perhaps in a few days when things are (hopefully) a little cooler and conducive to intelligent discussion. I'm willing to talk about Prop 8, just not today for obvious reasons.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #166
171. Your account will be canceled by then. May as well spill it now. n/t
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #171
177. Is IanDB1 a moderator?
IanDB1 wrote: "Your account will be canceled by then..."

Is Ian a moderator and is that an official warning of some kind? Or is he just someone with a whole lot of hatred and intolerance for others who disagree with him about some things?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #177
180. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #177
187. You didn't know?!
IanDB is NOT JUST A MOD.....he's


Wait. I'm not allowed to tell. Never mind.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #177
198. No, he's just smart enough to recognize a troll when he sees one.
:hi:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #166
173. You've already made your opinion clear and it is a violation of DU rules.
My questions are civil, as are those of dozens of other posters here that you are ignoring.

You are not welcome here. DU is a board for people who support human rights. You have expressed an opinion that is contrary to that.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #173
182. Then again, I told him to go fuck himself.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 05:20 PM by IanDB1
So, that way, if people alert on ME it will draw the moderators' attention to the thread and get it locked faster, and get the Mormo-fascist tombstoned faster.

At least, that's my strategy.

So, fuck fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #182
184. It could just be creating a lot of chum in the water....
By the way, I hear you're a mod. Congratulations!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #184
189. I'm more likely to make The Council of Elders or Lords of Kobol than become a DU Moderator. n/t
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #166
183. Knock it off
It won't be any different in a few days. You KNOW that. Maybe you're counting on it.

Your reception would've been better a few months ago. Maybe it'll be again in a few years. But your church had a big hand in a shameful episode and I'm astonished that it's astonished at the magnitude of reaction for what it did.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #183
193. I hear you
I hear you, I'm aware that there is a whole lot of emotion involved in the Prop 8 issue. Yes, I wish I had come to this board earlier, but at least you've got a live target for your anger and hatred right now, shoot away if you must, we'll talk about it later if I'm still allowed to write on this board.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #193
194. You're skirting the issue to try and make it cloudy enough for the moderators to need to discuss it.
You've danced around the issue enough to make it pretty damn clear that you're a bigot.

But you're afraid to come right out and plainly state your opinion, because you KNOW your account will be instantly tombstoned once you do.

You've almost certainly done this before here under a different screen name.

If you belonged here, you'd just come right out and put people at ease.

But you don't belong here.

You belong hiding under some rock in Salt Lake City, not here.

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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #193
196. No, you don't get to play martyr by proxy for your church
I just said you know and I know nothing will have changed in a few days or months. Unless you acknowledge some legitimacy for anger, you'll catch full blast every time you pop up. Your church hurt innocents. A church that was chased from state to state before it could safely practice its religion, fer chrissakes.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #146
206. "allow all men the same privilege"
and as for you women, you will have to worship through your Priesthood Head.

the "Mormon God" is completely uninterested in what you have to say.

and if you think you have something to say, you will suffer the fate of Sonia Johnson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
72. interesting. i'm an atheist,
but i believe in an afterlife. after we die we go into the spirit world where we learn lessons before reincarnating. the spirit world would have different realms too depending on what kind of person you were in life. hitler would not be in a nice place.

sorry some people are being so hard on you.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Imagine if only the GAY Mormons go to Heaven. n/t
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #72
110. Much appreciated
A little kindness is much appreciated right now, thanks hugely.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. I was kind and welcoming to you but you ignored my posts. Is it because I'm gay?
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #115
172. Yes you were
Yes, you were civil. I did not ignore you (see my previous post) and would never refuse to discuss with you civilly just because you choose to do sex with someone of the same gender and I don't.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #172
174. Baby, I don't just "choose to do sex with someone of the same gender."
I LOVE my partner. I love her with all my soul and mind and heart and yes, my body too, but that is not the sum total of my love or of our relationship.

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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #174
190. Love mine too
It's great to love another isn't it...
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #190
213. Sure is. Especially when we can use our religion to prove that our chuch sanctioned love is greater
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 06:54 PM by YOY
than homosexuals have for their spouses!!! It makes us soo superior than them as human beings, no??? :sarcasm:


...and the thing I learned from the nice enough gays and lesbians to befriend me...is that it isn't a choice.

Unless you can see yourself going down on some dude tomorrow in a heartbeat...then I think your wife would be most dissapointed to find out she is a total beard.

I think my wife has nothing to worry about. Does yours? Are you thinking about "the choice"?

Oh noes!!! What would father think?!?!?!?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #172
186. Being gay isn't about a "choice" and it's not all about sex. It's about who you love. n/t
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #172
207. I really would like to be able to kick your troll ass
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #72
112. That's because he fucking deserves it. n/t
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
121. I do not know much about LDS church either..
Being a gay man who lives by the Golden Rule as it as applies in the Bible.
I try to be respectful of others until they prove undeserving.
You are being treated like many treat us, being stereotyped by the actions of some or many in the church, and that includes churches of many religions.
I feel that if I live by the Golden rule, and as that applies to the animals and our planet too If there is a heaven, I'll be in the lot. If no heaven exists I will still have done good works while I am here. Then again the way others act if they are going to heaven..i don't want to be there where they are, I have had to deal with too many here. I have seen some examples of what appears to be Karma too.
Aother thing should be said and this should apply to all as well Judge not.
The first poster is rightfully angry, but he should not light into you right off the bat like that.
We all tend to generalize, it is just the way our intellect (or not) works.
It seems to be a trait shared by most mammals. ask a canine behavior specialist of other species specialist.
I being out for 27 years have been lumped in with molesters and rapists, I am nothing of the sort. The term is Consenting Adults.
We also value children for they are our future.
I know many homosexuals that have been treated badly as children whether verbal, physical or sexually, and there are none I know of personally that would harm a child in anyway.

Of course there are some bad apples , there are in every bunch.
and I am trying to be civil, and help you understand our plight and anger.
My partner and I have been together almost 13 years. He puts up with me when I am sick or cranky, which can be frequently, I am a 25 year hiv survivor. I have seen longer term couples that their family is religious and not speak to them for years.
One partner gets sick, in many places the other cannot go see them at the hospital, I have experienced that personally. I have had friends that were together up to 50 years whose family had no contact for years and years, but one dies, even with legal wills and deeds/titles in both names the blood family takes every thing leaving the remaining one alone, without a home they have put just as much into as the other partner, out on the street, broke, homeless, and probably sick, surely grieving. That is not right. We are asking for legal rights, not religious rites.
A lot of the congregations of many churches are confusing the fact that there are
Civil legal marriage rights, we have no interest in suing churches to make them have a ceremony where we are not wanted.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. Don't miss post #79.
I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt but they let me down. Big time.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #121
195. Wonderful post
Thank-you so much for that great post, you present as a good and loving man living in a society that is very far from perfect. You've encouraged me to continue posting here, maybe later we can try to get to know and understand each other better. I believe firmly that God loves you as much as He loves me and everyone else reading and writing here, it's said in the Bible that He is no respecter of persons.

Yes, I hear the voices, all of them, lots of anger, and lots of reasons for anger. But no justification for hatred and physical violence among fellow Americans with differing beliefs and opinions... God bless you brother.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
205. You left out the part where a woman can only get in if her father or FIRST husband ASKS her into He
OOPS.

Fucking lame ass troll.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
225. So Why Do (IIRC) Mormons Want To Baptize Decesed Jews?
Is there something about the hereafter that's only available to baptized Mormons? Does my fate in eternity purely depend on my good works on earth, or is it also a function of my religious beliefs or affiliations?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
57. Reading between the lines of the response, I'd say it depends
on whether you are Jewish when you die, or you "repent" prior to death. I'd say I'm looking at the same fate as one of them queers.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #57
87. Isn't Judaism pretty much the same thing?
Iffin' you ain't a Jew, God sends you to hell?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. I wouldn't know but I've never heard any Jewish person say such a thing.
As far as I know, there are only two religions that include sects that believe that everyone else is going to hell - Christians and Muslims.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. It's one or more of the ten commandments.
It's right there in the Torah. I'm pretty sure it's before the part about executing homosexuals.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
134. Most people go to heaven
Actually Mormons are among the few religions who believe that most people will go to heaven, not just members of their own denomination. The major qualification is to treat other people with caring kindness and respect during your mortal years. I personally think that diversity is delightsome if it's tolerant and respectful of others.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #134
143. Do you think that Proposition 8 is an example of "caring kindness and respect?"
Is it tolerant and respectful to take people's rights away? Is that an example of finding delight in diversity?

How do you reconcile these beliefs with the actions of your church?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #134
145. So, then you're saying the people who voted for Prop 8 are going to The Cylon Prison Planet? n/t
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #134
201. you are making me sicker every minute
"diversity is delightsome"

yeah right.

like in the Prophesies to the Laminites, 2nd Nephi 30, verse 6:

". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people."

and don't go giving me the "oh President Kimball changed all that" BS. the gays are just your new blacks, someone to consider "lesser than". buzz off.

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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. So...let me ask you this instead of scanning your web pages.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 03:33 PM by YOY
How the f*** does same-sex marriage harm you, yours or any church, or society as a whole?

If you can answer without making anyone here vomit, then I might actually check out magical American Jesus.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. It's because The Mormon Church is a bunch of boot-licking bullies.
And they want to set themselves up to help Der Mittenfuhrer run for President in 2012.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Can't help but honestly wonder if he's trying to recruit here or posting as a joke.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 03:42 PM by YOY
Honestly, the curiosity is killing me.

If it's the former it's a lot of naivette...if the latter...he's certainly got your and several other's anger riled.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. They're not allowed to drink or use drugs.
Posting on a Liberal board is the Mormon equivalent of doing a speedball.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
75. and he won't reply to my post either.
One post and he gets flamed like a whopper. Poor little 18 year old Mormon come to convert us heathens to magical American Jesus worship.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
79. Let's discuss when the knee-jerk's over.
My guess is that most individuals who voted for or against Proposition 8 in the recent California election had their own reasons for doing so, and some of them were quite emotionally involved one way or the other. But regardless of the deep disappointment for some when their Prop 8 side lost, Democrats as a whole won the election handily so there should be much to cheer about all over the country, including California.

I think that most religious folks felt that the basic unit of society, the traditional family, was being challenged and they did not want that to happen, so in the American way of doing things they promoted their points of view and voted on election day. Some folks were of the opinion that changing the definition of "marriage" would have a long-term negative impact on religious freedoms. And some believe that it was a moral issue, that sexual relations other than between a married man and woman are sinful in the eyes of God. (Strange concept to some, but not at all strange to religious people.)

If the kneejerk hatred abates a bit, perhaps in a few days, if I am asked in a civil manner I am willing to discuss this matter further. But there's obviously not much point in trying that right now.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Let's discuss it now. No knee jerking.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:26 PM by YOY
Just answer the question: How does same-sex marriage hurt you, your church, or society as a whole?

The Mormon church seemed to think it did. You say "ask a Mormon" and I am. Now please answer the question. I do not care what "most religious folks" feel or felt. I do not care what their spiritual opinions are. I am not into dogmatic truths or what is perceived as a sin by certain religions. I am into solid facts.

I ask how would this hurt you, your church, or society as a whole?

State facts.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. You've made your opinion very clear.
As you are fully aware, several of us did respond to you in a civil and kind manner. We even defended you from some other posters here. In response, you kicked us in the teeth. You've done a good job of cementing the negative opinions of Mormons in the minds of thousands of people reading here today. Good job.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. No, bigotry is not a "strange concept" to some, even if you godwash your bigotry.
You don't belong here.

Fuck off.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:32 PM
Original message
"...not at all strange to religious people"
You're doing it again. The set of "religious people" is a lot larger than Mormons and those who believe in that particular "sin." You're wrong.

Maybe you can speak for Mormons, but you can't speak for "religious" people.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
105. It said in its OP that it can't speak for all Mormons and now it's speaking for all religions.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. I would like to ask a question
What is the significance of the undergarments that Mormon's wear?
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
199. Undergarments
Not all Mormons attend temples but the faithful ones who do usually wear white underwear called "garments". On those garments are certain symbols that remind them of sacred covenants they made with God the first time they attended the temple as an adult. Those covenants encourage them to live goodly lives as responsible caring citizens of the nation in which they live. In turn, God covenants with them that if they remain faithful and endure to the end of their lives they will be able to learn and progress forever.

Some orthodox Jews and people of other faiths and organizations also wear articles of clothing to help remind them of certain things that are sacred or otherwise very important to them.

Contrary to the silly stories that often circulate about Mormons, we remove and wash our underwear the same as everyone else does, swim with normal bathing suits, don't wear garments when playing sports etc. And no, we don't really have horns. :-)

Thanks for your interest.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. a group propagating HATE asking people to be FAIR.
Oh yeah -- :popcorn:

:eyes:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. The only thing I want to "ask a Mormon" for is to demand a fucking apology.


If you're not here to do that, then you can fucking go to Hell.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Forget it.
Believe what you want.

Prop 8 told me what I needed to know about the Mormons.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. They're a bunch of chrisTo-fascist boot-licking bullies. n/t
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Mormon position on people of color did a 180 in the late 70's.
Both the previous position and the current one are supposedly divinely inspired, and they are completely incompatible. How do you reconcile this?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. God wanted Brigham Young University to be able to have a basketball team in the NCAA. n/t
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
181. There have been 15 relplies by this poster since I asked this question, and yet no answer.
I suppose that's because there's no honest way to explain how God felt that black people were followers of Satan cursed by God one day, and equal and worthy of the priesthood the next.

Either God is fickle and prone to change his mind on major issues, or your leadership are liars with political motives and no special insight into the mind of God.

Pick one.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #181
208. Or because they wanted to keep their tax-exempt status -- and, many Mormons still believe that shit
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #208
212. True.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
214. Many black members
There were black members of the LDS Church from close to its beginning in 1830. During the long years when blacks in the USA were not even allowed to eat in the same restaurants that whites ate in, and had to meet in their own exclusive church buildings, there were people of all colors freely interacting inside LDS meetinghouses, as there are today.

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the head of his restored Church of Jesus Christ today, organized as it was anciently on a foundation of apostles and prophets whom he guides and directs. For reasons that I do not understand, although blacks could always be baptized and become members of the LDS Church, the males were not allowed to hold the priesthood. It was not until several prophets pleaded on their behalf that the revelation finally came that from then on every worthy male member of the LDS Church would qualify for the priesthood. (Unlike almost every other Christian church.)

There is no incompatibility if you belief as I do that Jesus Christ is the head of his church on earth.

Thanks for your interest.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #214
228. "the revelation"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

that "revelation" BS always cracks me up.

and the "revelation" never includes anything about a woman unless it's exactly how she is to kiss the @ss of the Prophet or her Priesthood Head.

"every worthy male member"
when i see those little missionary boys wearing a tag identifying them as "Elder So-And-So", i feel so badly for all the poor LDS women of any age, who is supposed to look up to this little sap as a spiritual leader. it makes me sick.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. What is your personal stance, and that of your congregation, on rights for gay people?
This is a serious question. I'm taking you at your word. I'm sincerely interested in your response.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. If the Morbot doesn't open with an apology, then he's not fucking welcome here. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. This is unreasonable. It is religious intolerance to respond to an individual like this.
We don't know anything about this individual other than their religion. It's unreasonable to respond this way.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I don't give a shit what their religion is, who they worship or how.
My beef with them is in their POLITICAL interference in the lives of non-Mormons.

So, please... spare me the "religious intolerance" shit.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. no. not unreasonable.
Mormons don't WANT people to know the truth about their "religion". their "line" is to tell people that the REAL truth can ONLY be found on their OWN propaganda site.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Their religious beliefs are irrelevent. It's their political medling that's the issue.
I don't care if they worship The Flying Underpants Monster or a Serpentine Flesh Eating Jesus Snake.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Me neither, but I was hoping to hear something from this poster.
Now you've gone and chased them away and I was curious to hear what they had to say. Maybe this individual has a plan to change the Mormon Church's stance on human rights.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. They were never going to reply anyway. They're probably spamming dozens of boards. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. They've responded and their response is not good.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
65. mmm, yeah, like THAT'S gonna happen
unless this poster is a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, which i highly doubt, any "plan" they might have, if they even had one to begin with, would never make it to the light of day.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. Their opinion became clear in post #45 in any case.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. Mormo-Fascist believes Morality "Comes from god"
68. Morality comes from the conscience.

Morality comes from the conscience, we're all born with one. Just don't tell humanists that the conscience comes from God. :-)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #65
227. Just a man...
I am not an official in the LDS Church, not even at the local level. I'm just a retired happily married (to a lovely woman) man who has been an active Latter-day Saint since my conversion from the Catholic faith a lot of years ago. I speak for myself only. I am on this board at my own volition, nobody asked me to come here. I'll participate here as a hobby when I want for as long as I want if I am not forced off the board by moderators, in which case, all is well, I wish DUers the very best, there are many other boards on the 'Net.

I was an educator at the college level for a while, it is my hope to help provide accurate information about the LDS Church and the religious beliefs and practices of its members to as many on this board who may be interested in learning about that. It is my hope that the board rules of civility and respect for all will one day be enforced, or that those who seem to have no regard for such rules will not be so active in spreading their bigoted message of hatred and intolerance in this thread at least.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #227
229. figures
you left one religion where women can't hold the priesthood, and joined another where women not only can't hold the priesthood, but also where any male can be a priesthood head.

i guess being a priest AND getting laid at the same time was the more appealing idea.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
222. You may want to think that one
through a bit more when you're not in an emotional state musette. :-)

Would you accuse homosexuals for example of not wanting people to know about what they do that makes them different than the rest of the population because they recommend that people read about it at THEIR OWN websites? Would the writings of a homosexual writing about homosexuality likely be "propaganda", or more likely to be the expert opinions and observations of someone who really knows because he/she is actually first hand involved? (I'm using "homosexual" as an analogy because that's what seems to be on everyone's mind in this thread right now.)

Isn't it more reasonable to think that you would likely get accurate information from the principles involved rather than from their enemies? For example, why ask the Baptists what the Mormons believe, the Catholics what the Pentecostals believe, or whatever? (Though of course there's nothing wrong in shopping around when doing one's research. I just think it not very reliable if you choose to ignore the subject's own media, as some people do.)
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #222
226. spoken like a true Priesthood Head.
"when you're not in an emotional state"

translation:
"those women can get themselves in quite a tizzy! obviously they can't be level-headed enough to hold the Priesthood."

so you think ex-Mormons are your "enemies"? interesting.

and you think people choose their sexuality, like they choose a religion? very telling.

and it's actually a very interesting exercise to ask the Baptists about what the Mormons believe.
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aska Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
218. Civil rights for all
I cannot speak for anyone except myself individually. I am not as familiar with the issue of homosexual rights in law as you probably are. It was my impression that homosexual couples in most states qualified for similar constitutional civil rights as do heterosexual couples. I may be in gross error here, but if so I think they should, I am personally in favor of the "civil union" concept insofar as I understand it correctly, as probably are most Latter-day Saints. Where such rights do not exist today I think it appropriate for that interest group to peacefully lobby to get those civil rights, that's the American way.

And insofar as I understand it correctly, the issue in California was that a minority group of Americans wanted to have civil unions (I think they exist in CA?) renamed and that new label (which I don't think would have given them any additional rights than do civil unions) conflicted with the concept of traditional families and traditional marriage that most religious people of all political persuasions value.

I fail to understand why couples who generally tend to despise religion and churches would want to have their civil unions 'tainted' with the same label ("marriage") that most religious folks have used for centuries for their man and woman unions. How many homosexuals REALLY want to get married anyway?? For generations homosexuals have been able to live together in private and do whatever they want inside that privacy, the same as do heterosexuals. Why all the fuss?

But maybe I'm wrong, there's so much emotion here today. Perhaps we can compare notes when things settle down a bit, it's very difficult for anyone to reliably excercise their intellectual faculties when they are in a state of emotion.

I hope this helps, your question was asked in a civil manner, I hope you will read my response likewise even though you may not agree with me.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #218
220. 1. Similar is not same
It isn't a mere rename. Marriage carries rights civil unions don't.

2. There you go AGAIN. Generally despise religion? You're certain homosexuals are not only "generally" not religious, but actively anti-religious? Neither is true.

3. You're certain they don't want it, so it's what... petulance? Please tell us, only you can say what you're talking about.

4. Have been able to "do what they want" in private? You mean live furtively in the shadows, lest they be ostracized, beaten, or killed? Has that been the heterosexual experience "for generations"?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do you guys believe god used to be a man like us and became god by having a lot of kids?
and we can start our own universe by having a lot of kids? That always struck me as a little like Amway.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
176. Oh Please Amway Quixstar (sp?)is its own wack religion
Mrs Betsy DeVoss the sister of Erik Prince CEO of Blackwater..
I could write a volume on that bunch. Even had a look in side when I almost joined years and years ago. One meeting and things did not smell right. I never went back, but the DeVosses are anti humaseksul Kreestians. The have involvement in Focus on the Family etc

http://metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=9712

Even though he was under the gun, facing the pressure of an impending deadline, Russ Bellant agreed to meet for a talk about Dick DeVos. Bellant's been tracking America's arch-conservative movement for more than 30 years, producing three ground-breaking books that reveal how the leaders of the far right maneuvered this country's political agenda in their direction. And he knows the story behind the DeVos family as well as anyone.

snip

But there's another side to Dick DeVos, the hard-right face of a social and economic conservative who, not all that long ago, would have been considered extreme even among Republicans. But his views have largely become part of the political mainstream; many of the causes supported by DeVos are championed by the man currently sitting in the Oval Office, and he is there, at least in part, because of the financial support provided by the DeVos family. (If that sounds like hyperbole, consider that DeVos was offered the ambassadorship to the Netherlands as his reward for the role he played in the 2000 presidential campaign.) This political shift is testament to the quiet efforts undertaken by the DeVoses and other extremely wealthy right-wingers for more than three decades. Using donations from private foundations they control, as well as personal contributions and money kicked in from their companies, these people have been funding conservative think tanks, activist groups and fundamentalist Christian organizations in an attempt to direct America's political mainstream further and further to the right.

snip

oing through the foundation financial reports known as 990 forms Bellant points out the groups those on the left consider part of the hard right. Nationally there's the Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, American Enterprise Institute and the Council for National Policy among others. Closer to home, there's the Michigan-grown Acton Institute, Mackinac Center for Public Policy and the Traditional Values Coalition.

snip

One of DeVos' beneficiaries, James Dobson, founder of the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family, based in Colorado with affiliates across the country, wasn't nearly so reticent on the subject of embryonic stem cell research.

"You know, the thing that means so much to me here on this issue is that people talk about the potential for good that can come from destroying these little embryos and how we might be able to solve the problem of juvenile diabetes," Dobson said on an August radio broadcast. "There's no indication yet that they're gonna do that, but people say that, or spinal cord injuries or such things. But I have to ask this question: In World War II, the Nazis experimented on human beings in horrible ways in the concentration camps, and I imagine, if you wanted to take the time to read about it, there would have been some discoveries there that benefited mankind."

Dobson's Focus on the Family received $570,000 from the Dick and Betsy DeVos Foundation from 1996 through 2004.


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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. the LAST place to get REAL information on the LDS
is on their own propaganda site.

a MUCH better site to get the REAL info is:

http://www.exmormon.org /

your "church" is AGAINST equality and AGAINST women as equal citizens to men. don't trot out any of your apologist BS, i already know the score. go back to your "church" sanctioned bigotry and discrimination and buzz off. (a "beehive" reference for you)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. And notice the Mormo-Fascist doesn't bother to actually ANSWER or reply to anything.
They're probably busy spamming a dozen or so other message boards.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. You're not letting them get a word in edgewise. Pipe down.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. It's a full-duplex internet. They can type at the same time we do. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. LOL!
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. i think you are correct
that's always their line when the LDS is under fire for any one of their screwed-up tenets - "only believe OUR propaganda". prolly out on every progressive board out there. maybe they now have "cyber-missions"?
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Kceres Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. You've got a lot of nerve posting here.
I've gotta give you that. Don't the the screen door hitcha . . .
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. If you are against same sex marriage
you don't belong here.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. My question
How does a church started by a pedophile bigamist decide they should have a say in who marries whom?

TlalocW
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. child-molesting freak Hugh Nibley
there's a Mormon for you.

(i *LOVE* Martha Beck, her philosophy and her writing. she has been a great inspiration to me. and i really appreciate her giving the dirt on her screwed up Mormon family.)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. Mormons are supposed to wear nametags. Why are you posting anonymously?
Tell us your name.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. Why does the LDS church oppose human rights for women
and other humans? Why is equality such a problem for mormons?
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. some of the posters are out of line.
this was posted in the religion/theology forum. if you don't want to hear about it then don't read it. personally i'm an atheist, but everyone in this country has a right to worship as they please whether we agree with them or not.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes, they do. But this is not about how they worship. This is about their political meddling...
... in matters OUTSIDE their "church."

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. But this poster didn't say anything about their own political beliefs.
You're jumping to conclusions about this individual on the basis of their church's leadership. I know it's tempting to do so, but don't you want to hear what the individual has to say first?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. They spammed us with the electronic equivalent of leaving a brochure at your door. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. You're right. See post #45. Please alert.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. I already did. Did you alert on me for telling them to go fuck-off?
I don't hold it against you if you did.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. No. I did not alert on you. I told you to pipe down right here. lol!
I only alert on trolls.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. What is your personal position on prop 8? n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Check out post #45, the last sentence. I'd say that's pretty clear.
I've alerted.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
63. Okay. Magic Underwear? Yes? No? What's going on there? n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
82. Morbot addressed that in another thread...
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
67. Well, only one person's question got answered. Are you checking on the others?
Come on. It can't be that difficult for you to tell us your personal opinion about human rights, gay rights, women's rights, the right to religious freedom, the right of Jewish people not to be baptized as Mormons after they die, etc.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
68. How do you feel about the new version of Battlestar Galactica? n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
73. Well, since the Mormo-fascist has gone silent here, let's see what he's said elsewhere...
I'm Curious: Do We Have Any Mormon Members Of DU? If You're One, Please Check In!
Topic started by OPERATIONMINDCRIME on Nov-09-08 09:37 AM (73 replies)
Last modified by Evoman on Nov-24-08 04:59 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Religious or not: DUers, I need help on a theology report
Topic started by Spiffarino on Nov-22-08 03:25 PM (45 replies)
Last modified by BurtWorm on Nov-24-08 12:52 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



The mormon church is a terrorist organization.
Topic started by arbusto_baboso on Nov-06-08 11:09 AM (48 replies)
Last modified by aska on Nov-24-08 10:41 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Humanists Launch Godless Holiday Campaign
Topic started by moobu2 on Nov-13-08 06:58 PM (71 replies)
Last modified by aska on Nov-23-08 06:10 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
74. one last thing
"I think it likely that a lot of DU members actually know very little about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"

WHAT NERVE to make such an assumption. i've been studying this "religion" for years.

(actually i think LDSers WANT "gentiles" to make this assumption... because if people knew the TRUTH, the quiet assimilation of the LDS to be accepted as a "people of the Book" would stop in a big hurry!)

recommendation to all: "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie. the real story of Joseph Smith.

and for entertainment purposes only: BYU TV. it's on my cable lineup, i have to assume because of the large LDS community in my neighborhood. it's like a bizarro world.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. Don't miss post #79.
I was feeling generous and tolerant this afternoon, but now I've joined the angry and rude bunch.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. and he still didn't answer the question.
Let's see if he does, shall we?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Oh, I think its response was crystal clear.
"Religious" people have a moral opposition to gay people. Those of us here on DU - the unwashed atheists - can't be expected to understand that, but "religious people" all do.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Not really. He never stated just "how" same-sex marraige would harm their church
I am simply on tenterhooks for an answer.

It's almost insulting to those of us here who have faith (Agnostic/jaded Catholic I may be) to assume what a religious person feels and thinks.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Same-sex marriage doesn't harm their "church." However, fighting same-sex marriage ingratiates them
... with the more mainstream chrisTo-fascists.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Almost insulting? I'd say that's pretty damn insulting.
I know many, many religious people who believe strongly in human rights. Some of them are even gay. To have some anonymous poster come in here claiming that all religious people are bigots...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. He's supposed to wear a nametag. He should tell us his name.
Or else he'll have to do time on the Mormon Prison Planet after he dies or something.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. I'm trying to be genteel here.
It would be insulting if he actually realized it was insulting. He thinks he's spreading tolerance for his religion by explaining their actions. I don't think he actually knows any gay people...

Oh yes, if it was spoken by a person who should know better then it would be insulting...but there is nothing more insulated to the real world than a Utah Mormon.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. It probably does know gay people but doesn't know they're gay.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. Like I said. Nothing more insulated than a Utah Mormon...
n.t.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. But I really like "Battlestar Galactica" and "Big Love."
Did you know that the original Battlestar Galactica series was really all about Mormons?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. That makes me want to root for the cylons.
So was Lorne Green supposed to be Brigham Young or Joeseph Smith?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #114
124. Something like that. As a kid, I always thought they were supposed to be Jewish. Here...
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:40 PM by IanDB1
This is the Original series...


http://www.michaellorenzen.com/galactica.html


And:

Battlestar Mormonica: the church of latter-day space cadets American Atheist Newsletter, Jan, 2004 by Timothy Mitchell
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/battlestar-mormonica.htm



And this is the new series...

Born-Again 'Battlestar'
Drawing from Mormonism, Roman polytheism, and even Buddhism, the reimagined sci-fi TV series is steeped in religion.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Movies/2005/05/B...

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #88
97. Can we all just hit the alert button on that piece of shit and get the tombstone over with already?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
118. One step ahead of you.
n.t.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. Yeah, he did. He says very clearly that same-sex relations are immoral...
... even if the idea of anti-gay bigotry is a "strange concept" to some.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. Some people think pet ownership is immoral.
Some people think divorce is immoral.

Some people think blowjobs are immoral.

Some people think farting in public is immoral.

Doesn't make it illegal...it also doesn't explain how it actaully "hurts" them.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. If you weren't anti-religion you would understand.
All religious people understand.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #102
123. Do you need a sarcasm there?
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:40 PM by YOY
I understand. Hell, I pretty much understood when I had faith. I'm not anti-religion. There is that sentiment here but I save my ire for certain faiths that forget that church and state should be seperate.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #123
129. I thought you would understand that I was being sarcastic.
I was agreeing with you. I'm pagan, myself. Religious but not part of any organized religion. I was Episcopalian but I got tired of being treated as the ugly step-child.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #129
133. I am sarcasm impaired.
I am one of those folks who actually need the sarcasm sticker...call it ineptitude.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #133
135. And I tend to be overly snarky. I'm sorry.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #133
149. Here, this will help...
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liberal texan Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #149
156. Sarcasm detector THATS REAL USEFUL
:nuke:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. Bigotry is only a strange concept to the "non-religious."
Apparently, all religious people - for whom the poster speaks - are anti-gay bigots. Ergo, if you are not an anti-gay bigot, you are not religious. Simple. See?

It sounds just like the arguments for Proposition 8.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. Actually, in fairness, there are atheists who are bigots, too.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 05:31 PM by IanDB1
I've heard Michael Shermer hates Eskimos.

Okay, I made that last part up.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. I've known bad atheists. Ok, I've known one. Ok, he's not really "bad"
and he's definitely not a bigot, but he's sometimes annoying.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
210. I LOVE that teen "soap opera"!
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #210
216. i'll have to catch that one
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 07:00 PM by musette_sf
it must be a riot.

usually when i am watching it's "Women's Conference", "Discussions on the Ds & Cs", and "Family Expo".

and if one wants to know where all the gay Mormons are, watch one of the "dance productions".
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #216
217. Trust me, they are also on the teen soap
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #217
219. ha! n/t
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. All I want to know is what happened to the tablets?
:shrug:
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
117. i'm gay- why does your church view me as a threat?
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. why do you think it's ok to insert your religious beliefs into a state constitution?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #117
132. Check out post #79.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #117
136. Because they've seen how you drive? n/t
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #136
175. my driving IS a threat. how about denying me a driver's license instead of a marriage license?
it would make s much sense.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #175
178. Do Jews who work at The Registry of Motor Vehicles refuse to give drivers' licenses to Christians...
... because they drive on Saturdays?
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
125. why do you believe your rights to religious freedom includes taking away mine?
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
128. why does your church think it's ok to spend 22 million to take away civil rights?
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
130. why shouldn't that 22 million be spent on feeding the poor?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #130
141. Post #79 answers all your questions.
Meanwhile, the OP is not responding to us. We've been rude, you see.
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liberal texan Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
137. I honestly would like an answer
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:45 PM by liberal texan
What is more moral
spending 22 million to prostletize that gay marrige is bad
Or Spending 22 million feed poor children

The opportunity cost of spending so much money is money that can feed poor or house the homeless

Sorry I posted this the same time as you
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #137
144. See post #79. All is revealed.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. In the meantime
Smile. Stand up straight. Make sure your hair is combed.

I'll bet you anything a whole bunch of Mormons from another board are looking in right now.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #147
159. They're getting an earful, in that case.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #147
161. Because they're not allwed to play spin-the-bottle? n/t
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
138. why should mormon businesses get my money so they can tithe it back to the church to oppress me?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #138
140. Because otherwise, Donny and Marie will cry. n/t
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
150. mormons are a threat to traditional religions, so is it ok if a pass a law against you?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #150
160. Majority vote, losers not allowed to whine.
Fair's fair.
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liberal texan Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
151. This question i would like to ask all religious people
What makes you more legitament than the million of other gods that have been invented by man to explain the world.
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
152. Maybe you came on a progressive Democratic website because you are having second...
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 04:59 PM by Tikki
thoughts about your faith in the LDS Church and you are curious about who we are and how we can help you.

I know a lot of Mormons must be concerned with the fierceness in which their Church jumped into this Civil Liberties issue.

I know many Mormon children go to public schools and learn about the importance of the Constitution just like any other student.

A religion that has faced so much prejudice themselves over their wants as citizens of this Country must feel awkward
in placing so much of their own prejudices on others.

If we can answer any questions for you...dear searcher...please let us know.

United in equality for ALL...

The Tikkis
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #152
157. Check out post #79 and #45.
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #157
169. YUK...why would someone like that come here...
it makes no sense.

The truth is that we are never going stop, never going to calm down..so your plan here is a FAIL.

The Tikkis



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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #152
158. Good luck with that. n/t
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
154. So you've read the posts here in R/T....
...and concluded: "it likely that a lot of DU members actually know very little about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the "Mormons".)"

Actually, many of us here know all too well about your Mormons. And considering the role they just recently played in California's Prop 8 Amendment, most of us think you all SUCK!!!

- But you might be able to help us out, if you can explain to us "why do the Mormons hate democracy????"

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #154
165. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
164. we are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves- except for gays, right?
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
167. which golden tablet declares me immoral? 'cuz jesus never actually said anything about me...
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 05:10 PM by madmadmad
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madmadmad Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
179. you came here to recruit for your religion- can i come to your church to recruit some gays?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #179
188. No. They don't like that sort of thing. Just look at how they treated this guy...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
197. A Profile in courage and integrity from one of our Mormon DUers
FreeState
I have officially resigned from the Mormon Church
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #197
202. oh yeah, i remember FreeState finally left the LDS
over Prop 8. i've participated with FreeState on a few threads. s/he was the most rational LDS member i'd ever seen on any board. and s/he proved it (rationality) here!
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #197
221. If you claim that every Mormon is morally obligated
to immediately leave the church, then how do you get "courage and integrity" out of someone doing little or nothing more than his or her duty?

I think that I understand the incentives that you want to create. However, you haven't confined yourself to saying "I praise person A" and "I condemn person B." You have expressed ideas. Unfortunately, those ideas don't seem to be part of any consistent whole.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
200. I've got just what you guys need
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
203. I know everything about your misogynistic, homophobic "religion" -- aren't you Tsed yet?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
209. Why is this piece of shit thread STILL open three hours later???
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
211. My question: how can you make believe you follow Christ when you are anything but emulating Christ?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
215. How do you feel about LGBT and their civil liberties?
And I mean YOU, not LDS. You, the Mormon, how do YOU feel?

I ask this because there are religious people I know that hold personal views that differ from that of their denominations. Since in our interpersonal relationships we deal person-to-person, without regard to theology, I am more interested in your own views.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
223. Gee, that worked out really well, didn't it? n/t
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
224. If Science And Scripture Are At Odds - Who Wins?
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 08:09 PM by MannyGoldstein
e.g., evolution vs. creationism.

The Dalai Lama has said: "If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change. In my view, science and Buddhism share a search for the truth and for understanding reality. By learning from science about aspects of reality where its understanding may be more advanced, I believe that Buddhism enriches its own world view."

If "Mormonism" was substituted for "Buddhism" in the above quote, would you and the LDS Church endorse this statement without exception?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
230. Locking.
Flamefest.


Thank you,
SemiCharmedQuark
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