A Third of British Muslim Students Justify Killing for Religion

[notfullofit]

By JONNY PAUL, THE JERUSALEM POST, LONDON
Jul 28, 2008 0:41

Nearly a third of British Muslim students polled in a new report to be published on Monday said that killing in the name of religion could be justified.

The report by the London-based Center for Social Cohesion (CfSC), entitled "Islam on Campus: A Survey of UK Student Opinion," showed that 32 percent of Muslim students said killing in the name of religion could be justified, while 60% of active members of on-campus Islamic societies said the same. Only 2% of non-Muslims polled felt this way.

Based on a specially commissioned YouGov poll of 1,400 students as well as on field work and interviews, the report showed that most Muslim students supported secularism and democratic values, were generally tolerant of other minorities and rejected violence in the name of their faith. However, the report also revealed high levels of support for the adoption of Sharia law into British law and for a worldwide caliphate.

Forty percent of Muslim students polled supported the introduction of Sharia into British law for Muslims, and a third supported the introduction of a worldwide caliphate based on Sharia law; 58% of active members of Islamic societies supported the idea.

In addition, 43% of Muslim students said Islam was compatible with secularism.

"These findings are deeply alarming," said CfSC researcher Hannah Stuart, one of the report's authors. "Students in higher education are the future leaders of their communities. Yet significant numbers of them appear to hold beliefs which contravene liberal, democratic values. In addition, there are signs of growing religious segregation on campus. These results are deeply embarrassing for those who have said that there is no extremism in British universities."

Stuart also said active members of campus Islamic societies "often hold opinions that are significantly more extreme than those of ordinary Muslim students. The government needs to be wary about treating members of these societies as being representative of all Muslim students."

On attitudes toward Jews, only 7% said they had very little or no respect at all for Jews, while 79% said they respected Jews.

The report also found that many non-Muslim students held negative attitudes toward Islam. However, a significant minority (9%) said they did not respect Muslims. Of non-Muslim students, 50% stated that Islam and Western democracy were incompatible and 55% said Islam was incompatible with secularism.
more
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331116813&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Possumpoint]

1. Let's Make

Islam incompatible with this world. It isn't a religion but a cult based on self propagation through lies and violence. It practices sexism and mind control. Sooner or later it will have to be wiped out.

[Sanctified]

2. You can't wipe out religion, oppression tends to make religion stronger.

In my opinion the only way you can change the destructive behavior in others is through love. I know it sounds idealistic but the truth is it's the only way to get people to stop hating. We will have peace on Earth when all mothers love their children more than they hate those who they send their kids off to kill.

[notfullofit]

3. I wonder if those Muslim

students who are in favor of Sharia law have any notion as to what it really is all about.

[Occam Bandage]

6. The other two thirds are reasonable people who believe in secularism.

Attacking Islam itself will not drive out the bad third; it will drive the good two thirds to the other side. Reconciliation and rational discussion with those who will discuss--and the generation-by-generation spread of knowledge, science, and liberalism--is the recipe for continued success in freeing the world to think as it wishes to think.

[notfullofit]

7. It's the Sharia law bit

that scares the shit out of me.

[Odin2005]

4. IMO if you don't agree with Western Liberal Democratic values then LEAVE.

Don't impose your illiberal, anti-democratic, sexist BS on us.

[Occam Bandage]

5. So you'll be emigrating soon, I take it?

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. Islam is now where Christianity was in the Middle Ages

Had these same questions been asked of university students in the 12th, 13th and 14th century, Christian students would have given similar answers. I'm not excusing the responses, I'm just trying to put them in perspective.

[Igel]

19. Religions aren't alive.

If they can update their math and physical sciences from medieval levels to include cell phones and petroleum engineering via importation they can do the same with other parts of their knowledge systems.

Unless, of course, they only see disadvantages, or at least no advantages, in changing. Losing group identity and vicarious honor and importance is a disadvantage.

[Jim__]

9. "...killing in the name of religion could be justified."

Anyone know what's included under that "could"? If you were a member of a religion, and a group was targeting and killing members of your religion, do you think killing members of the group would be justified?

I'd really like to know a little bit more about exactly what those students think could justify killing for their religion.

[trotsky]

10. "Only 2% of non-Muslims polled felt this way. "

One could assume that those individuals were asked the same question.

[Jim__]

11. The Center for Social Cohesion does not appear to be a disinterested group.

Given that the poll seems to be Muslims vs everyone else, I was curious as to whether or not the report broke down the 2% across other groups - e.g. since this is Britain, how did Irish Catholics respond.

I went to the website of the Center For Social Cohesion and found these recent press releases:

Scottish Islamic Foundation to launch on Thursday: A new front for the Muslim Brotherhood?


The Centre reveals Abu Qatada's talks on Jihad


Muslims and the Mayor: Who are Ken's Muslim backers?


The Centre uncovers evidence of ties between the Islam-is-Peace media campaign and the Muslim Assocation of Britain

I doubt the veracity of their poll.

[notfullofit]

12. 'Allah hates” homosexuality'

snip..

In addition to its poll of 1,400 Muslim and nonMuslim students, the centre visited more than 20 universities to interview students and listen to guest speakers. It found that extremist preachers regularly gave speeches that were inflammatory, homophobic or bordering on antisemitic.

The researchers highlighted Queen Mary college, part of London University, as a campus where radical views were widely held. Last December, a speaker named Abu Mujahid encouraged Muslim students to condemn gays because “Allah hates” homosexuality. In November, Azzam Tamimi, a British-based supporter of Hamas, described Israel as the most “inhumane project in the modern history of humanity”.

James Brandon, deputy director at CSC , said: “Our researchers found a ghettoised mentality among Muslim students at Queen Mary. Also, we found the segregation between Muslim men and women at events more visible at Queen Mary.”

A spokesman for Queen Mary said the university was aware the preachers had visited but did not know the contents of their speeches. “Clearly, we in no way associate ourselves with these views. However, also integral to the spirit of university life is free speech and debate and on occasion speakers will make statements that are deemed offensive.”

In the report, 40% of Muslim students said it was unacceptable for Muslim men and women to associate freely. Homophobia was rife, with 25% saying they had little or no respect for gays. The figure was higher (32%) for male Muslim students. Among nonMuslims, the figure was only 4%.

The research found that a third of Muslim students supported the creation of a world-wide caliphate or Islamic state.

A number of terrorists have been radicalised at British universities. Kafeel Ahmed, who drove a flaming jeep into a building at Glasgow airport last year and died of his burns, is believed to have been radicalised while studying at Anglia Ruskin university, Cambridge.

more
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4407115.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164

[Jim__]

13. That poll is conducted by the Center for Social Cohesion.

Look at their website. They appear to be strongly anti-Muslim. They're entitled to their opinions; but given their opinions, I don't trust their polls.

[notfullofit]

14. Opinions?

What disturbs me more is what percentage of students declined to admit their true feelings.
What disturbs me more is what percentage of universities are allowing this hate speech on their campuses.

[pegleg]

17. Yours seems to be the wisest comment of all.

[Evoman]

15. COMPLETELY off topic...it just struck me what a weird word "homophobic" is.

Homo - genus we belong to.
Phobic - fear.

So say aliens landed on Earth...and they had an intense fear of humans. What would you call their phobia? I would say homophobic. But then the aliens would be all like, "But we have no problems with gays..we just hate humans."

[Igel]

20. Wrong etymology.

"Homo sapiens": Latin 'homo' is from *homen-s' (genitive in Latin was 'hominis'),with the root *homen-. It shows up in 'hominid' and 'humane' (the e > i and o > u changes are regular when the vowels weren't stressed; English also has stress-based vowel reduction).

"Homosexual" isn't ultimately derived from Latin 'homo', but from Greek 'homos', meaning 'the same, identical'. Cf. 'homonym' or 'homologue'. It's opposite is 'heteros', meaning 'different' (cognate with "cetera" in 'et cetera', "and other things"). 'Homosexuality' is sexual attraction to one like yourself, 'heterosexuality' is sexual attraction to one unlike yourself; if you assume sexual dimorphism--you're sexually male or female, with no other options--it's a clear enough set of lexemes.

"Homophobia" is derived from 'homos' and 'phobia'--both Greek--but only after 'homosexual' was clear in the context . 'Homophobia' could be fear or hatred of anybody like yourself, which clearly isn't the meaning (so an etymology-based definition collapses immediately). Compounding -phobia with 'homosexual', which is what 'homophobia' is, ultimately, would yield 'homosexophobia', which is too unwieldy to be used (assuming I formed it properly). "Homophobia" isn't just fear or dislike of "the same", but of sexual attraction to "the same". The clipped form 'homo' probably helped make "homophobia" more easily parsed.

"Hominophobic" is the word you'd think you'd want to describe your aliens, but we often try to avoid Latin-Greek blends. "Anthropophobic" has the right meaning and already exists.

The two "homo" words are sort of shoe-cabbages, a term based on the French and English words for 'cabbage': French chou 'cabbage' is pronounced very much like English "shoe", so a shoe-cabbage is a pair of cross-language near-homophones. The intro to Russian text I used once upon a time introduced the Russian word for "to sew" in the first year (because it's was an appropriately irregular verb), and I had to get past a Russian-English shoe-cabbage: 'To sew' in Russian is "shit'", and getting the more prim students to use it out loud was difficult. Once heard a DJ not well-versed in German pronounce Baroque composer Johann Joseph Fux' name as though his surname were a shoe-cabbage; the station manager was not amused.

[LiberalFighter]

16. By that same reasoning... it is okay for citizens to kill religious nuts in the name of the govt.

[bulldogge]

18. Luckily

Christianity makes no mention of killing or else this could get sticky. If it said "Though shall not kill" as one of the corner stones of the religion it would make this article seem silly because the west kills for profit and prime real estate not for religion.

[onager]

21. Living among Muslims, I don't trust this thing either.

(Full disclosure: I'm an atheist, as many of you know.)

I've lived in Egypt for nearly 3 years now, and previously I lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 years. So I've spent a lot of time among Muslims, and I have very rarely seen the kinds of attitudes expressed in that poll.

Since me and my Egyptian co-workers are like co-workers anywhere else in the world--we are stuck with each other and naturally talk--sometimes these issues come up.

What I hear expressed a lot is the vague wish for a "more Islamic" society, but everyone has a different opinion on how to go about that. Just exactly as, e.g., a bunch of American Xians would if they were asked the same question.

The theocratic group pushing for that kind of society here is the Muslim Brotherhood. But even people who might support their ultimate aims often disapprove of their tactics. To put it mildly.

BTW, not all my co-workers are Muslims. Some are Coptic Xians and a few are Egyptian Catholics. As far as I can see, they all get along. Earlier this year, one of the Copts wanted to take an extended vacation with his family during the Easter holidays. The Muslims split up the job assignments to cover him for the extra days off. And he will do the same for them during Ramadan.

I live in Alexandria, a city which had some really bad religious riots in 2005 and 2006 between Muslims and Coptic Xians. My co-workers were as horrified by that as I was. Even more so, I think, because most of them seem truly proud of living in a pluralistic society where everybody generally gets along.

Over and over I heard them say things like, "This just does not happen here. We are all Egyptians and we all get along. We don't care what religion you claim to be, we only care how you act." Etc. (I've condensed a lot of comments into those lines, but that was the general gist.) And that seems to be generally true.

Cultural things are sometimes pretty funny. When I was first here, one of my co-workers who went to school in the USA passed along a friendly (and unnecessary) warning: "In America, I noticed that when Americans meet a man's wife, they often hug and kiss her. Don't do that here. We're liberal Muslims, but not THAT liberal."

:rofl: