The Serotonin God?

[Az]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/21/study-the-effects-of-sero_n_114112.html

Study: The Effects Of Serotonin On Spirituality

According to Psychology Today and referencing the American Journal of Psychiatry, serotonin, the brain chemical in charge of moderating mood, metabolism, and sexuality, has been linked to spiritual experiences. Psychology Today reports:

A team of Swedish researchers has found that the presence of a receptor that regulates general serotonin activity in the brain correlates with people's capacity for transcendence, the ability to apprehend phenomena that cannot be explained objectively. Scientists have long suspected that serotonin influences spirituality because drugs known to alter serotonin such as LSD also induce mystical experiences. But now they have proof from brain scans linking the capacity for spirituality with a major biological element.

[liberalmuse]

1. I'm an atheist, but I wonder...

Do these chemicals create the actual experience, or are they instrumental (much like a microscope, for instance) in enabling us to experience something that is already there?

[Az]

3. Valid question.

Perhaps tests to see if anything is actually there should be performed. Like side by side comparisons of people who have similar levels of sarotonin to see if they see the same things. All sorts of tests come to mind.

[Warpy]

2. I tripped a few times in the 60s

but I never saw any gods.

I did, however, see things in a piece of purple construction paper that let me know where the heavy carvings on Gothic cathedrals came from--ergotism.

I've always thought belief to be hard wired, else there would be more crossover as various groups managed to persuade other people of their superior wisdom.

It's also why religious proselytizing is so deeply offensive to so many people, whether it's believers banging on doors or unbelievers vocally doubting the whole business in social situations. This stuff lives in our guts and attempts to change it externally are seen as personal threats.

[charlie]

8. Heh

Myself, having little exposure to cathedrals of any sort, recognized the stripe-y motifs the Aztecs and Mayans were fond of.

[On the Road]

4. I Would Expect Measurable Changes in Brain Activity

for a variety of experiences -- fear during battle, a moving concert, sexual arousal, sports victory, losing a job -- you name it. Many of the changes may involve serotonin. Spiritual experiences are the only ones whose existence is questioned as a result.

[cosmik debris]

5. Atheists are chemically blinded by serotonin deficiency

We can't see god because our brains are broken.

:)

[Demeter]

9. Atheists' Brains Are the Only Ones That Aren't Broken

and lefties are the only ones in their right minds!

[FirstLight]

6. I agree that the tendency toward the spiritual could be hard wired...

It has always been amazing to me that some people have no desire to question and explore that realm, while others can get lost there. (I prefer visiting from time to time ;) )

One of my favorite books on the subject is The varieties of Religious Experience, by William James. It's from 1902, but the ideas and information is so clear and well thought out, its a classic.

for more reading: http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/james/toc.htm

I hope using the serotonin connection doesn't lead to a way for thr fundies and wingnuts to persecute people en masse... that sounds very Hitler-esque

[Occam Bandage]

7. You will not find an experience that is not accompanied by changes in the brain.

Studies such as these are fascinating and undeniably important, but are not related to theological arguments.

Smelling a flower produces measurable changes in brain activity. The sensation of smelling a flower can be, and has been, artificially induced. LSD can induce many false sensations, flower-smelling being among them. Few people would claim that flowers do not exist on basis of this.

Spirituality is, of course, a slightly different creature; unlike with flowers, the experience is the only evidence existing. However, that doesn't change the discussion in any meaningful way: explaining the neurochemistry of an experience does not deny the experience, nor does it make any claims as to the validity or value of the experience. Neuroscience produces some of the most interesting studies coming out of the scientific community today, but claiming that they support an atheistic viewpoint is as misleading as claiming they support a theistic viewpoint.

[azul]

10. Good topic for that Sunday feeling.

You touch this part of the brain with a chemical or electrons and you get dizzy, touch that and get dread, touch that and get at oneness with all, touch that and get violent anger, and this area gives the religious feeling, and that love.

All our lives our consciousness bounces around in this wealth of hard-wired resonances and chooses places to dwell and places to avoid. It is a mysterious miracle inside each living thing with these higher function accommodations.

But science is so limited as to almost be in preschool in regards to consciousness, even though it is good at consensus building with its tools and discoveries in the physical world. You would think that intelligent beings would have the highest respect and reverence for the will to live and consciousness until it is at least better understood.

[FirstLight]

11. Another great link ...

Jill Bolte Taylor's

My Stroke of Insight

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

She has the experience of being a neurophysiologist and having a stroke...watching her consciousness shift while the one side of her brain shuts down, the other takes her into "Nirvana"

[54anickel]

13. WOW!!! That was amazing. Brought tears to my eyes as a remembered the

off and on conversations I had with now DH's mother in the ambulance and hospital when she was suffering her stroke. Her speech was mumbled, but I could piece together bits and pieces as she told me of her "trip" to a space surrounded by spirits of love, angels, colors and beauty...supposedly I was there! Always chalked it up to strange hallucinations, but that part about seeing me there always bugged me. We weren't very close back then, I had just started dating her son a few months prior.

[saltpoint]

12. Az, what a good post. NPR ran some interviews with

stem cell research-opposing priests a year or two back, during which they tended to tap-dance around the notion that their position was anti-science.

I wondered if what they opposed was really that scientists, and not "God," might possibly be in the position of saving lives.

Brain activity in response to the spectrum of stimuli represents a similar threat to the authority of "God" as the sole determinant of well-being. If spiritual awakening can be monitoried and chemically controlled, it would suggest that science and knowledge and not "God," have the greater claim on people's allegiance.

And not incidentally, it might diminish religious authority in organized religious traditions.

Go, scientists.

[heidler1]

14. I have always been very skeptical of all common beliefs including what Doctors tell me.

This is pretty much off the subject, but it does show how and why we change.

About 18 months ago I started getting Atrial Fibrillation with no pattern as to what would set it off. I'm 83 and a emergency ward Doctor gave me some pills and told me to see my regular Doctor soon. I did. I only had 15 of those pills and my Doctor failed to give me more so when I run out the fibrillation came back. The emergency ward Doctor was from India and I believe he saved my life, He worked nights at the Blythe, CA ER. My normal behavior would be to take pills if and when I felt like it, but now this I do not forget.

The scary thing about Atrial Fib. is it can cause a clot to form in the heart and if it comes loose it can cause permanent damage to your brain. Blood thinners are called for. My regular Doctor did nothing until he was confronted with another Doctor's opinion.