Where will the "New" Pope come from? U.S.A.? Africa? S.America?

[Up2Late]

Anyone have a Bishop or Cardinal that you think could or should be the Next Pope?

Where do you think the Next Pope SHOULD come from, for the Good of the Roman Catholic Church (to stop the Exodus away from the R.R.C. in the U.S.)?:shrug:

Notice Please: Only those who are, have been, or are considering joining the R.C.C. reply. If you have a deep hatred of, or a "bone to pick" with, the R.C.C., Please take your rant somewhere else. This is a question about the "New" Pope.

Also: This is not a place for more praise of JP2, their are dozens of other threads for that. I'm not a big fan of his, for a number of reasons.

Although I am still technically a Roman Catholic, I now consider myself a Buddhist (Tibetan).

[pf99]

1. New Pope will not come from USA

Will not happen in our lifetime.

[meegbear]

2. Agreed ...

I think it'll be third-world.

[Up2Late]

5. What about Canada? Any chance?

Maybe a bi-lingual from Montreal?

[meegbear]

12. Never thought of Montreal as third-world

no, I see Africa.

[nickinSTL]

3. I think it's wrong to ask all non-Catholics not to reply

I'm not Catholic, but I consider the choice of the next Pope potentially very important for the world at large. John Paul II had a significant impact on world politics as well as Catholic religion.

I agree on asking those with a 'bone to pick' to refrain.

I have my problems with the RCC, but won't touch on them here.

As for where the next Pope will come from...if I had to bet money, I'd choose Latin America. However, Europe and Africa are certainly possible. It's really hard to predict what a papal conclave will do.

I'm pretty sure, though, that the next Pope won't be from the US.

[Up2Late]

4. Sorry, I'm just trying to stop most of the Anti-Catholic flamers...

If you have something constructive to add, you are more than welcome.

Welcome.:pals:

[nickinSTL]

9. thanks

Not all non-Catholics are rabid.

I like to think I'm not.

I have lots of disagreements with John Paul II's views, but I still respected his deep faith and commitment to his positions.

I've been reading up on the potential successors as well, though I suspect it may be someone as unexpected as John Paul himself was.

[kwassa]

6. Regardless of where, the new Pope will be conservative

John Paul II staffed the church hierarchy with conservatives over the last couple of decades, insuring that whoever follows him will reflect his traditionalist theology, according to what I've been reading.

Expect more of the same. I am not Roman Catholic, and if I were I would be quite disatisfied, but really the point is moot to me.

I predict a European pope. I hope it is not Ratzinger.

[aneerkoinos]

14. Schisma?

Anyone else have the feeling that Catholic Church (like many protestant nominations currently) is sooner or later entering a scismatic period between conservative authoritarian power-believers (church of Emperor) and social liberals with social(ist) consciense of compassion and humility (church of Christ)? In Catholic church this might take the extreme form of two competing popes ...

[tmorelli415]

7. Buddhist Catholic?

If the Buddhists get to participate in the democratic selection of our new pope, it is only fair that they let the College of Cardinals select the next Dali Llama. What's fair is fair! <kidding>

I vote for Western Europe. Church is dying there, and the rest of the world will listen to a pope from Europe before Europe will listen to one from the Third World. "Clean up your own back yard..." as they say...

[Up2Late]

11. It's actually not something to Joke about, it sort of already happened

The Chinese Government Killed the #2 Lama of Tibetan Buddhism (not officially, but most suspect it's true) The "Tenth Panchen Lama" in 1989. Then, after H.H. The Dalai Lama recognized the 11th Panchen Lama in May of 1995, as is the Tradition, he (a six year old boy) and all of his family, where Kidnapped and hauled away by the Chinese authorities, never to be seen again. The Chinese Government then replaced the boy with another boy of their own choosing, who only the Chinese respect.

There is a good book on this called "Hostage of Beijing: The Abduction of the Panchen Lama". Sorry, but that is not something most Tibetan Buddhist find at all funny. Here's a link to some websites for more info:

This is the last picture of the missing 11th Panchen Lama
<>

Heres are some links for more info:





We currently do not know if he is alive or dead. Why is this important? Because the Panchen Lama is the Person who usually picks the new Dalai Lama.

[aneerkoinos]

13. Tulku

Perhaps you knew that, but the next incarnation of a tulku lineage is not elected or selected, but searched for untill recogniced, most often by a tulku of a parallel lineage. As for Dalai Lama lineage, it is my understanding that the current Dalai Lama has said that his lineage will end with him.

If (Catholic) Church is dying in Western Europe, it is no loss, but a blessing. From the point of view of religion and spirituality, unless Catholic Church goes through a revolution and gives up every aspiration for earthly Power and becomes an organization of charity and spiritual search instead a of acting like a moralizing sex addict, it will remain the dead tree it is.

As for next pope, I recommend electing a western born Tibetan tulku. And I'm serious.

[Up2Late]

21. Yes I knew that, the last line was poorly phrased.

I try not to use to much "jargon" when correcting someone who didn't know they were being insensitive.

The Panchen Lama is the the Lama that usually leads the search and makes the final recognition decision for the new Dalai Lama, something an impostor can't do. An impostor doesn't have the spiritual ability.

[aneerkoinos]

22. Yes

It seems the tragedy of Panchen Lama makes serious waves. Dalai Lama plans not to be reincarnate (at least in recognizable form), and is planning to make the Chinese accepted Karmapa the spiritual leader of Tibetans both in excile and in Tibet. This has led to the Karmapa controvercy as Shamarpa does not accept political considerations taking over the Karmapa lineage, but claims that Thaye Dorje is the real spiritual Karmapa and insists on independence of the Karmapa lineage.

[Rowdyboy]

8. Non-Catholic, but a friend....my money is on

Europe, either an Italian cardinal or Bishop Lustiger of Paris. He's 78 and, as the son of Polish Jews killed in the Holocost, has a compelling story. Another reason I think Lustiger may be the one is that no one is talking about him. In the past (I've been through this twice before in 1978) the names suggested during this period are never the person selected.

[nickinSTL]

10. Lustiger...

certainly not considered a front-runner.

But, I've also read that he's been criticized by Jewish leaders, and considering all the work that JPII did on trying to heal relations between the varying religions, I doubt they'd choose someone who'd offend Jewish leaders.

(this is what I've read on a site reviewing various candidates...not sure how accurate it is)

[Sapphire Blue]

15. JORGE MARIO BERGOGLIO (ARGENTINE), BORN DEC. 17, 1936

Cardinal Bergoglio would be my choice.

From Newindpress.com

Excerpt...

Stories of his humility abound. When he was appointed a cardinal in 2001, Bergoglio persuaded hundreds of Argentines not to fly to Rome to celebrate with him but donate to the poor the money they had raised for their airline tickets.

He declined to move into the luxurious archbishop's residence, preferring a simple apartment nearby where he lives with an old bishop and usually cooks dinner.

He gets around town mostly by bus, often wearing the cassock of a simple priest rather than any episcopal finery.

In 2000, as the Pope apologised for the Church's sins down the centuries, Bergoglio had clergy wear garments of penance for sins committed during the country's military dictatorship.

http://www.newindpress.com/popejohnpaulii/News.asp?Topic=361&Title=Reports&ID=IEH20050403120831&nDate=&Sub=&Cat=



Edited to add an excerpt from Chiesa:


John Paul II made him a cardinal together with the last group of bishops named to the honor, in February of 2001. On that occasion, Bergoglio distinguished himself by his reserve among his many more festive colleagues. Hundreds of Argentinians had begun fundraising efforts to fly to Rome to pay homage to the new man with the red hat. But Bergoglio stopped them. He ordered them to remain in Argentina and distribute the money they had raised to the poor. In Rome, he celebrated his new honor nearly alone - and with Lenten austerity.

<snip>

Yet he´s not the type to compromise himself for the public. Every time he speaks, instead, he tries to shake people up and surprise them. In the middle of November, he did not give a learned homily on social justice to the people of Argentina reduced by hunger - he told them to return to the humble teachings of the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes. "This," he explained, "is the way of Jesus." And as soon as one follows this way seriously, he understands that "to trample upon the dignity of a woman, a man, a child, an elderly person, is a grave sin that cries out to heaven," and he decides not to do it any more.

The other bishops follow in his footsteps. During the Holy Year of 2000 he asked the entire Church in Argentina to put on garments of public penance for the sins committed during the years of the dictatorship. As a result of this act of purification, the Church had the credibility to be able to ask the nation to acknowledge how its own sins had contributed to its current disaster. At the celebration of the Te Deum at the most recent national feast, last May 25th, there was a record audience for Cardinal Bergoglio´s homily. The cardinal asked the people of Argentina to do as Zacchaeus had done in the Gospel. Here was a sinister loan shark. But, taking account of his moral lowliness, he climbed up into a sycamore tree, to see Jesus and let himself be seen and converted by him.

There isn´t a politician, from the right to the extreme left, who isn´t dying for the blessing of Bergoglio. Even the women of Plaza de Mayo, ultraradicals and unbridled anti-catholics, treat him with respect. He has even made inroads with one of them in private meetings. On another occasion, he visited the deathbed of an ex-bishop, Jeronimo Podestá, who had married in defiance of the Church and was dying poor and forgotten by all. From that moment, Mrs. Podestá became one of his devoted fans.

http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=6893&eng=y

[aneerkoinos]

16. Sounds OK

But too old. I don't think an Interim Pope of just few working years is going to solve anything. (Keep in mind the Malachy prophecy about the next pope possibly being the last pope... very heavy stuff!).

[Sapphire Blue]

18. At 68 he could live for more than a few years.

He may or may not be able to solve any major problems during his papacy, but perhaps he can lead the way... focusing on the teachings of Jesus in regard to economic & social justice... something our world needs desperately.

[aneerkoinos]

19. Honestly

and personally, how would you feel about Pope in his twenties, and a western born Tibetan tulku - synchretism taken to whole new level and Catholicism becoming truly catholic, universal religion, instead of the exclusionist power hungry rich mans dogma it remains today?!!!

http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/osel/default.asp

Sure I know this is not going to happen, but "realism" has ceased interesting me on every level ...


You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one...

[Sapphire Blue]

20. Jesus was in his 30’s during his public life

... and is thought by some to have studied Buddhism. Unfortunately, it’s highly unlikely that this would be a consideration during the College of Cardinals’ deliberations.

From what I’ve read about likely papal candidates, I feel that Cardinal Bergoglio would be an excellent Vicar of Christ.

[nickinSTL]

23. news flash...

the Cardinals WANT someone old.

They don't want another 25+ year pontificate.

I expect the next pope to be AT LEAST late 60s. I actually think early-mid-70s is more likely.

(oh, and the prophecy stuff :eyes: there have been end of the world prophecies since humans have been able to conceive of such a thing. I put NO stock in that stuff...besides, it's been noted that nothing in the prophecy says that the last pope, 'Peter the Roman' will come IMMEDIATELY after 'Gloria Olivae')

[cobaindrain]

17. Christoph Schoenborn from Austria

[nickinSTL]

24. won't be Schoenborn

this time.

He's too young.

Described as a rising star in the Church, but he's only around 60. The Cardinals will look at him as a possibility for next time (or even the time after that)

[cobaindrain]

25. probably, they want somebody old

Danneels might fit the bill, how many will be turned off by his liberalism though?:-(

[nickinSTL]

26. enough

I think I'd actually be happy with Daneels...but, since I'm a liberal non-Catholic, I REALLY don't expect them to elect anyone I'd like.