When did man fall?

[TechBear_Seattle]

The fundamental premise of Christianity is that humankind is in a fallen state, and that the only way out of this state is the sacrfice of Jesus Christ. This state is the result of a sin of disobedience by Adam and Eve, the purported first humans.

Most people here in DU reject Creationism and accept the scientific theory of evolution, which holds that there was a fairly gradual transition from non-human to pre-human to human. Under evolution, there is no clear point at which humans first appear.

So a question to consider, which I hope will generate some thoughtful responses: At what point did humanity fall so badly that faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for humanity's sins occur? And how did it happen?

[Bill Wiltrack]

1. Not sure its a fall...

An interesting read and thoughtful perspective on this subject is Julian Jayne's, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

[Dhalgren]

2. Just a few minutes after the banana peel was placed on the sidewalk...

[cosmik debris]

3. The Day that Sin was invented

It seems to me that sin was invented to divide people along the lines of "them" and "us". That made it possible to say: "We're forgiven and you are not". But that's just my POV.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. I'm looking more for what believers think about the matter

As a non-believer myself, I know the arguments that I would use. I'm curious about how Christians who do not reject science -- and there are a lot on these boards -- reconcile the fundamental premise of their religion with evolution.

[Meshuga]

5. My question is

Is there a "when" to this fall, in the opinion of a Christian, when he/she rejects Creationism and accepts the scientific theory of evolution? Perhaps "the fall" represents something else to this group (it has some type of meaning). It'd be interesting to see the answers.

[BurtWorm]

6. According to The Closing of The Western Mind by Charles Freeman

Man's fall dates from the time of Augustine, whose faulty reading of Genesis, filtered through his sexophobic mind, was based on a bad Latin translation of the Septuagint, itself a Greek translation from the original Hebrew.

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. I find it very interesting that no believers have answered the question

I would think it is a very basic issue in the presumed conflict between Christianity and science, and something that rational, scientifically inclined believers would have given some thought on. The lack of response seems to mean I was wrong about that.

[kiahzero]

8. The fall isn't an "event"

It's a state of being, an event that exists in eternal sacred time, not historical time. Thus, asking "when it happened" makes faulty assumptions.

(It should be noted that I'm not neither Christian nor Jewish, but I did spend quite a bit of time discussing this during my World Religions class when we discussed Genesis).