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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:08 AM
Original message
Votergate: More details emerge
This is stuff that topples Presidents and their Partys :

Hope is on the way

http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Madsen/120104madsen.html

December 1, 2004—Five Star Trust, the entity that, according to well-placed business and U.S. intelligence sources, is tied to the financing of a scheme to pay individuals posing as U.S. law enforcement and electronic voting machine technicians to rig the vote in favor of George W. Bush in at least four key states–Florida, Texas, Ohio, and California—represents a Byzantine network of offshore shell corporations and individuals tied to various Bush and Saudi-connected business enterprises.


Mr. Madsen also includes:
Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

No MR. MADSEN THANK YOU
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
1.  Excerpts from new article "Votergate: More details emerge"
http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Madsen/120104madsen.html

Votergate: More details emerge
by Wayne Madsen

Excerpts:
(snip)
"Since the late 1980s, Five Star Trust has been supplemented by additional money from the Saudis. According to Houston sources, the trust has been extensively used by the campaigns of both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush. These sources also claim that the Saudis and Bushes use "Five Star" entities as vehicles to move large amounts of money for special purposes. Other names associated with this large Saudi-Bush multibillion dollar tranche are Five Star Group, Five Star Company, and Five Star LLC. The money used to move the money for the vote rigging was also said to involve accounts in Phoenix, Arizona and Houston.

The use of foreign nationals as election machine technicians on Election Day has also been confirmed. Sources with details of the vote rigging stated that some foreign nationals were involved in the reprogramming of Diebold and other machines in the four key states of Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California. The technicians successfully padded votes in Ohio to ensure that state's 20 electoral votes went to the Bush column. In populous counties in Florida, Texas, and California, the vote padding ensured that Bush's nationwide popular vote margin was well in excess of 3 million votes, giving him 51 percent of the national vote over John Kerry. One unsuccessful Democratic candidate in California voiced concerns about whether the alleged vote padding in his state affected his own vote count.

Vote padding for Bush's popular vote may have also been used in Maryland. Diebold ran a training program for volunteer election technicians on October 29, three days before Election Day, at a warehouse in Glen Burnie, Maryland. Volunteers were paid $14 an hour for their services. According to a Diebold insider, U.S. citizenship was not a qualification to work on Diebold election machines on Election Day and the volunteers could have been assigned "anywhere in the state on Election Day."

Sources familiar with the Votergate scandal have stated that foreign nationals from Mexico, Brazil, and Russia were used to "fix" selected machines in critical counties and precincts in Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California. Moreover, some of these individuals have been associated with organized crime activity, including computer hacking, in the United States and abroad. Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

(snip)

Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author, and columnist. He is the author of the forthcoming book, "Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops & Brass Plates" and wrote "Genocide & Covert Operations in Africa: 1993-1999" (Mellen Press)."
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. congrates Jamboi n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Still too convoluted,,, need hard evidence...
This could just as easily be a red herring - until someone REALLY nails this down, I'm not going to use it.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The beauty of it is that there's plenty to grab in the details that stand
on their own that one can work on, and ignore the larger narrative arc. Just because were aren't sure of the whole thing doesn't stop us from researching & examining the different subparts.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree - there is much here to be explored...
but without substantive inquiry, this does not stand alone.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I agree. By itself its not enough to stand on its own. But it gives us
things we can check out.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. This part reeks of Xtreme bullshit
"Sources familiar with the Votergate scandal have stated that foreign nationals from Mexico, Brazil, and Russia were used to "fix" selected machines in critical counties and precincts in Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California. Moreover, some of these individuals have been associated with organized crime activity, including computer hacking, in the United States and abroad. Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

Voting machines and gambling machines are different hardware and different software - there is nothing "essentilly the same" about them.

All I see are a bunch of unsourced, unsupported allegations.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. As a software engineer I interpret it to mean that they both have backdoor
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 05:25 AM by jamboi
entry points of a similar nature written into their software. Having the "same mechanism" doesn't imply to me that anyone is claiming that they use the same processor, or that they share code, just they have functional equivalents. Doesn't reek of X BS to me.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I agree - I smell a red herring here too...
Whose purpose is to get some people running off a cliff and made an example of.

Luckily it's not nearly as sophisticated as the 'Rather Trap'.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. what do you draw from this ?
Sources familiar with the vote rigging have reported that some of those involved in the operation balked when they were not paid the amount of money they were promised for their services and began revealing the nature of their roles.

began revealing the nature of their roles ?

to me they have hands on suspects with testimony
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. When these people come forward and testify -
then the case will be solid provided they are authentic.

They will be vaunted by the people.

Until then - I don't see much.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. When these people come forward and their identities are
made known, their lives are in danger!!!

Have you ever heard of "Deep Throat"? Do you know the real name of "Deep Throat"? :shrug:

:think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

Didn't think so? :silly:

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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. i think five star trust was mentioned in the iraq/haliburton missing
equiptment story/
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mountebank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. More discussion here:
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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You can listen to yesterday's Pacifica Interview
with Mr. Madsen here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x93550

You'll find a link to an MP3 interview. I find the interview a little easier to understand.

But read his columns too because they are packed with helpful facts.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. Anyone who's serious about organizing research on this plz join me here
New, Improved Madsen Research Project Strategy Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=201
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Corrected Link for Madsen Research
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