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RubyCat Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:33 PM
Original message
Vote fraud in Oklahoma? CORRECTION
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 07:30 PM by RubyCat
The Tulsa World printed the wrong data in its Nov. 3rd issue.

Apparently, the results of a measure to legalize cockfighting
in 2002 got swapped in.  How in the world did that happen?

For those who want to check, the numbers are the same as in
the 2002 published results on the state's website.  Pages 4,
5, & 6.

http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf



My original post is below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------


Here's an article about possible vote fraud in Oklahoma.  The
newspaper "Tulsa World" printed the results for
Oklahoma's counties in it's Nov. 3rd issue.  They weren't
complete results -- they represented only the 70% of the votes
that had been tallied so far.

When the state released its final tally (the date on the
document below is Nov. 15), with 100% of the votes in, Bush's
numbers increased in all 77 counties as one would expect.

The strange thing is, in counting the remaining 30%, Kerry's
vote totals decreased from the partial results published in
the Nov. 3rd Tulsa World issue.  This happened in 57 of the 77
counties.  How can this be?

Voting Machines Count Backwards in Okla.
57 Rural Counties Affected - Vote Fraud Suspected
http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344

Here's the link to the Tulsa article in pdf form:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

Here are the final results from Oklahoma's state website. 
They're on pages 3 and 4:
http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/04gen_co.pdf



			Kerry					Bush

			Tulsa	SOS 	Diff			Tulsa	SOS 	Diff
			(70%)	(100%)				(70%)	(100%)

Adair			3704	2562	-1142			2137	4971	2834	
Alfalfa 		1075	470 	-605			920 	2201	1281	
Atoka			2897	1946	-951			839 	3142	2303	
Beaver			1114	297 	-817			807 	2272	1465	
Beckham 		2343	1931	-412			2811	5454	2643	
Blaine			1792	1222	-570			1537	3199	1662	
Bryan			6864	5745	-1119			2848	8615	5767	
Caddo			4137	3916	-221			3343	6491	3148	
Canadian		11518	9712	-1806			16380	33297	16917	
Carter			7955	6466	-1489			5008	12178	7170	
Cherokee		7353	8623	 1270			5280	9569	4289	
Choctaw 		2805	2639	-166			918 	3168	2250	
Cimarron		719 	184 	-535			516 	1242	726 	
Cleveland		22451	34007	 11556			41506	65720	24214	
Coal			1617	1203	-414			389 	1396	1007	
Comanche		9410	12022	 2612			11593	21170	9577	
Cotton			1048	898 	-150			721 	1742	1021	
Craig			2440	2504	 64 			1954	3894	1940	
Creek			9251	9929	 678			10364	18848	8484	
Custer			3233	2801	-432			4590	7839	3249	
Delaware		5102	5591	 489			5420	10017	4597	
Dewey			1094	408 	-686			708 	1843	1135	
Ellis			1037	395 	-642			567 	1685	1118	
Garfield		7200	5586	-1614			10155	17685	7530	
Garvin			5260	3707	-1553			3333	7610	4277	
Grady			7624	5970	-1654			6495	14136	7641	
Grant			1137	571 	-566			957 	1950	993 	
Greer			1116	719 	-397			729 	1529	800 	
Harmon			473 	354 	-119			368 	838 	470 	
Harper			876 	268 	-608			506 	1397	891 	
Haskell 		2927	2378	-549			1176	2946	1770	
Hughes			2494	2283	-211			1505	3066	1561	
Jackson 		2470	2232	-238			3689	7024	3335	
Jefferson		1073	1057	-16 			753 	1546	793 	
Johnston		2510	1713	-797			810 	2635	1825	
Kay 			6522	5957	-565			8589	14121	5532	
Kingfisher		3096	1022	-2074			1734	5630	3896	
Kiowa			1609	1413	-196			1383	2610	1227	
Latimer 		2114	1945	-169			1080	2535	1455	
LeFlore 		6643	6741	 98 			4903	10683	5780	
Lincoln 		6467	4041	-2426			4515	10149	5634	
Logan			4958	4869	-89 			5896	11474	5578	
Love			1782	1538	-244			893 	2295	1402	
McClain 		5482	3742	-1740			4108	10041	5933	
McCurtain		6450	3684	-2766			1840	7472	5632	
McIntosh		3786	4488	 702			2758	4692	1934	
Major			1659	537 	-1122			1091	3122	2031	
Marshall		2757	2088	-669			1407	3363	1956	
Mayes			6397	6933	 536			5828	9946	4118	
Murray			3019	2130	-889			1350	3665	2315	
Muskogee		11111	12585	 1474			8392	15124	6732	
Noble			2507	1335	-1172			1625	3993	2368	
Nowata			2072	1660	-412			1516	2805	1289	
Okfuskee		2049	1743	-306			1301	2542	1241	
Oklahoma		59900	97298	 37398			122276	174741	52465	
Okmulgee		5120	7367	 2247			5691	8363	2672	
Osage			6924	8068	 1144			6630	11467	4837	
Ottawa			4043	5086	 1043			4337	7443	3106	
Pawnee			2593	2564	-29 			2256	4412	2156	
Payne			7958	10101	 2143			11694	19560	7866	
Pittsburg		8263	7452	-811			5966	11134	5168	
Pontotoc		6249	5165	-1084			3949	9647	5698	
Pottwatome		10293	8638	-1655			9686	17215	7529	
Pushmataha		2869	1934	-935			765 	2863	2098	
RogerMills		898 	382 	-516			511 	1388	877 	
Rogers			11241	11918	 677			13298	24976	11678	
Seminole		4138	3648	-490			3029	5624	2595	
Sequoyah		5729	5910	 181			3468	8865	5397	
Stephens		7046	5515	-1531			6803	13646	6843	
Texas			2707	1016	-1691			2031	5450	3419	
Tillman 		1490	1175	-315			1044	2273	1229	
Tulsa			46995	90220	 43225			123293	163452	40159	
Wagoner 		8081	9157	 1076			10072	19081	9009	
Washington		5485	6862	 1377			11380	16551	5171	
Washita 		2017	1340	-677			1682	3705	2023	
Woods			1463	932 	-531			1648	3166	1518	
Woodward		3119	1458	-1661			2617	6193	3576	



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RubyCat Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. The links
Voting Machines Count Backwards in Okla.
57 Rural Counties Affected - Vote Fraud Suspected
http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344

Here's the link to the Tulsa article in pdf form:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

Here are the final results from Oklahoma's state website.
They're on pages 3 and 4:
http://www.state.ok.us/~lections/04gen_co.pdf


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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. RubyCat -- Have you sent this to Wesley Clark ???
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regularjoe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great Work!
Wow, thanks for checking this out. Without comparing the two no one would have known. This is highly suspect. Do you have a copy of the table in word or excel? If so would you mind sending it to [email protected] so it can be posted on the "Election Investigation Library" <http://www.rasgroup.com/rasforum/ >? If this is ok with you could you write a brief summary of the work for posting purposes.

:you rock:


regularjoe
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Kick
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Rubycat, I sent the link to your post to
Citizens for Legitimate Government. They've been posting "glitches" too. This is the grand-daddy of all "glitches".
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Please look at my post number 7. nt
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life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well now ,
even an intellectually challenged judge wouldn't have any problem seeing that something strange happened there.

Thanks RubyCat....
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Tulsa World printed 2002 results from a cockfighting bill
as presidential results in its 11/3/04 print edition.

There was a thread yesterday, here is the post with the answer:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x82661#83505

Here's the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x82661
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faulkingtruth Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Wtihout Feathers
http://www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/CommentaryToo/1015.html

Without Feathers
By Mark Faulk

How do you tell the difference between a Presidential election and a cockfight?

On Nov. 2, I posted an article entitled "Politicians Gone Wild"
( www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Commentary/1018.html ). This is an excerpt from that article: "This election has been waged like a Spring Break mud-wrestling contest. And unfortunately, the only way we could compete was to put on our thongs, oil up our bodies, leap headfirst into the muck, and start pulling hair. As a result, a lot of people, both Democrats AND Republicans, were forced to lower ourselves to the level of....God forgive us.....the politicians."

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I was kidding. In reality, I CAN tell the difference between the Presidential election and a Spring Break mud wrestling contest. In fact, I would bet real money (as opposed to Monopoly money) that ANYONE could tell the difference between the Presidential candidates and 21-year old girls in thongs covered in oil and/or mud.

However, it looks like the Tulsa World is not nearly as astute as most of us are. Just yesterday, we posted an article about the unusual Presidential election results that they printed in the November 3 addition of their, uhhhh...."news"paper, entitled "Tulsa World on Oklahoma Vote Totals: We Have No Idea"
( www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Commentary/1022.html ). The totals that they printed seemed to have absolutely no connection to the actual numbers that were later confirmed by the Oklahoma State Election Board. In fact, Kerry actually appeared to LOSE votes in 57 counties, while Bush gained massive amounts of votes.

The Oklahoma Independent Media Center said it like this, "Voting Machines Count Backwards in Okla". Somehow, that didn't seem likely in this particular case. Here is an excerpt from our article:

"I'm as skeptical as the next guy (provided the next guy isn't a neocon) about our current system of voting, especially when the votes are tallied by EE&S Corp (as they are in Oklahoma), who have clear ties to numerous ultra-right individuals and organizations, and have already been implicated in several other voter fraud investigations. But let's be honest about this - why would anyone waste their time rigging the election in a state that Kerry didn't even bother to campaign in, and that Oklahoma Democratic Party officials conceded to Bush without even a semblance of a fight?"

As it turns out, the reason that the Tulsa World's totals seemed to have no connection to the actual numbers in the election is simple: they had no connection to the actual numbers in the election. It seems that they can't tell the difference between our Presidential election and a cockfight. Sure, they're both dirty, bloody, and a fight to the death, and lots of money is bet on both sides, but that's where the comparison ends. But guess what? The Tulsa World somehow (and I can hardly wait to hear this explanation) printed the results from the 2002 measure to ban cockfighting in Oklahoma instead of the Presidential election totals. How did that happen? I have absolutely no idea. A representative at the Tulsa World told me that he thought that they were working on a story to "explain" the screw-up, and I'm guessing someone is cleaning out their desk as we speak.

We have enough of an image problem here in the Heartland as it is. Our state is perceived by outsaiders as backward, conservative, and not too bright. For the most part, "Okies" are the nicest, most caring people you will ever meet, and (almost) all of us know the difference between our Presidential candidates and two roosters fighting to the death. It's a no brainer - the Presidential candidates are the ones without feathers.

Editor's note: Thanks to whoever goes by the name of "k8conant" on the www.democraticunderground.com website for having the intelligence to do a google search on the vote totals printed by the Tulsa World, and coming up with the coskfighting connection. Nicely done. And thanks also to Bob Chen, who emailed me the link to that site. Our readers keep us informed, so we can help keep you informed.

Here is the link to the Tulsa World vote totals released as the Presidential results on Nov. 3: http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_10_11_3_2004.pdf

And here are the vote totals for the 2002 cockfighting ban initiative (scroll down to page 4): http://www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf


"It's all over but the counting, and we'll take care of the counting".

Before everyone breaths a collective sigh of relief thinking that this election was "fair and balanced" after all, take a look at this ten second video that was sent to me by Janie Angus (another reader), along with this note: "Nancy Pelosi's daughter Alexandra filmed this in the summer of 2003 at the White House BBQ." (I'm still in shock over this one): http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/peterking.mov
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. FABULOUS work, just fabulous
And thanks so much.

Oh -- and a MOST hearty welcome to DU.

:toast:
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It was a mistake on the part of the Tulsa World.
See my post above.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. nevermind, I got it
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 07:05 PM by jdj
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick!
Awesome. Get the word out.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ruby, welcome to DU!
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 07:36 PM by spotbird
Sorry about all the effort on your part it is really frustrating. I spent a few hours on this yesterday before I found out.

Oh well.

on edit:

It would be wise for all of us to post at the source of the origional article to make them aware.

http://okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=344
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Me too
I spent a bunch of time looking at/analyzing the numbers, too. :dunce: Finally, IAMREALITY clued me in that they were false. So my very first DU thread was a dud! :thumbsdown:

I still would like to know how K8conant knew to pore over hundreds of pages to find the data that matched, how Tulsa World got their numbers, (did one of their reporters lift the data from the state site, or did the state report it to TW)? I thing he knows more about this.
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nephalim Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm still a little skeptical...
...but I would need a real tin-foil-hat to continue beating this drum.

Sorry your first topic was a dud. It happens. I haven't had one, here, yet.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It wasn't a dud.
You worked very hard and made a great argument. This is how we are able to tell the real problems from mistakes, with work. Not everything that looks problematic at first blush will pan out, but way better we find out here, the mainstream media would have had a field day with our "conspiracy theory" if it hadn't been vetted first.

Pat yourself on the back.

I'd like to know how that got printed also. As for the person who found the mistake, maybe he/she works for the Tulsa World? Or even the SoS in Oklahoma? We'll never know, but it doesn't matter.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Thanks for the kind words
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I googled to find the source
I wondered whether the Tulsa World data was preliminary and couldn't find any intermediate results at the Oklahoma election site. So...I googled the numbers from Adair County "2,137 3,704" and up popped:

PDF STATE QUESTION 695 LEGISLATIVE REFERENDUM 322 Special Election ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... PROPOSAL — YES PROPOSAL — NO VOTES ===== ADAIR 2,137 3,704 5,841
ALFALFA 920 1,075 1,995 ATOKA 839 2,897 3,736 ...
www.state.ok.us/~elections/02sq.pdf - Similar pages

I don't work for the Tulsa World: I live in West Virginia. I just hope we find the real errors soon enough.
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I emailed Bob Nichols
I've already corresponded with Bob Nichols about this and he has updated his information.

k8conant:kick: :kick: :kick:
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. google numbers
I NEVER would have thought to do that!
Thanks for replying, and welcome to DU - I haven't been here long either. :hi:
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I googled numbers
...in desperation. But I still wonder why the Tulsa World published those.
:shrug:
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3 DanO Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. What if...
the numbers Tulsa World printed were real and someone in the state elections office modified the 2002 pages to cover up the deception when they found out the "uncorrected" numbers got released?

I don't really think this is likely since such a cover up would leave solid evidence that would prove fraud.

Another possibility though is that the early release of the wrong numbers was intended as a Red Herring to keep people from looking too closely at the real number. Comparing the votes for president to the party affiliation of the voters in each county shows a normal distribution with a linear relationship. But the relationship is skewed as if 1/2 of the Kerry votes were switched to Bush.
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RubyCat Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That thought crossed my mind,
It's paranoid-sounding, but I thought perhaps they went back and modified the 2002 cock-fighting results on the state website to match what was printed in the Nov 3. 2004 Tulsa World in order to cover up their slip-up.

I searched on the Internet for information that would independently corroborate the 2002 cock-fighting results, and found news and blogs talking about it. They didn't give the county-by-country breakdown, but they did say that the measure to ban cock-fighting in OK passed by 56%. That figure, 56% matches the results printed in the Nov. 3, 2004 Tulsa World. I also found that Blair county (I think it's Blair) had their own website separate from their state website, and they posted their own county result, which also matched the Tulsa World. So it looks like the newspaper did print erroneous results.

I was hoping we would find a smoking gun out of this. :(

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Maybe you found a 'smoking...
...gambit.'

;-)
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Any of you notice...
...how many times during the past three weeks we've read the 'the chance of that happening is........'; looks like 'a miracle to me.....'; 'my, how strange exit polls matter in the Ukraine but not.......'; .......

have emerged as characterizations of events surrounding this election?

And, then you have the 'proportional font and th^' gambit; 'leaked' exit polls, stock market slide' correlation on 2 Nov; fbi/hs folk urging a 'lockdown' of a place in the middle of nowhere that fbi/hs folk deny; and, this list of strange coincidences gets weirder and longer as the days pass (catch that little central tabulator glitch in Nebraska!!) ....

I'm soon expecting someone telling me the Constitution and DoI are fake and the real versions have just been discovered in a safe in las vegas.......

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Given who is in charge of securing those documents...
We're probably lucky that we still have a hard copy of the documents..who needs the paper laying around taking up space ..let's just put them all on one of the touch screen Diebold machines..


http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=DBD&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=448975


Diebold News Release - 16-Sep-2003


Diebold Secures the Founding Documents of America's History

NORTH CANTON, Ohio, Sept. 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Diebold, Incorporated (NYSE: DBD), a leader in providing security systems and solutions for nearly 145 years, is now safeguarding the foundation of America's history, the Charters of Freedom: the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, in three customized high-tech vaults installed at the National Archives Building in Washington, D.C.

The recently renovated rotunda and re-encasement of the Charter documents will be unveiled during a private ceremony at the National Archives on Constitution Day, Wednesday, Sept. 17. The rotunda will be open to the public on Thursday, Sept. 18 at 10 a.m.

"Diebold's specially designed vaults and doors incorporate the latest technology to protect the most precious documents in American history from theft and assault," said Adrienne Thomas, assistant archivist for Administrative Services at the National Archives. "Diebold's security knowledge and expertise will help the National Archives preserve a fundamental piece of our country's heritage for generations."
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. How f*cking disgusting.
Why don't they just put up a few billboards that say, "Please - come steal these documents."
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
28.  Yep, and "The National Treasure" plot...
with the Nat'l Archive security system being hacked doesn't seem too far fetched any more since I found that link...I made a joke in another thread that the movie needed to have a big ol' Diebold sign on the screen as the system was being broken into..just enough to make people go "hmmmmm.."
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. FUCK!!!!
:puke:
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. so the 2002 #s were just lying around and World used them instead of
2004 Kerry #s????

How in the world could something like that happen????
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. Bush won Oklahoma and this story was always unbelievable
1. It is obvious the Tulsa World had the wrong figures. I knew that when I looked at the sparsely populated panhandle counties such as Beaver and Texas county. They are always 80-90% Republican.
If you go to the Oklahoma Election Board website you will see the exact figures certified on 11-15.

2. The whole state of Oklahoma re-vamped their voting machines, I'm guessing 15 years ago. The machines are old, but reliable. They have a PAPER TRAIL. A voter fills in a paper ballot and the machine counts them. In the Wesley Clark/John Edwards re-count there was no or little difference in the primary night figures and the re-count.

3. For manipulation of these thousands of machines to individually happen, it would be impossible. I don't even know if it could be done on such primitive machines in a way that would not be obvious.

4. The Secretary of State is a good Democrat ( Susan Savage - former mayor of Tulsa) and the election board is still filled with Democrats as well.

5. Common sense.

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