If you want Kerry to unconcede: points to think about

[AnIndependentTexan]

First we need to give him a reason to unconcede.

Second we need to understand his position. Look at what has been happening here with just us talking about certain subjects. If we have people doing that to all of us then it will be ten times for Kerry because he's a bigger target.

Third frame the issue. How do we frame it were the media can not just label him as sore loser.

Fourth act through congress. We need to get the House and the Senate to ask for Kerry to step up. Our petitions are fine, but it will look like democrats are just being sore losers. We need people from both parties to sign up for this.

That also brings us back to the Third framing the issue. How will we gain their support and claim it is for democracy sake???

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Frame the Issue This Way:

Kerry received more votes than Bush. Kerry was up 52-47 in Ohio exit polling, and no exit poll has ever been so wrong.

[AnIndependentTexan]

3. it has to be beyond the exist polls

I believe the exist polls were right, but we need to frame it as more then just exist polls. Hope I don't sound rude, but I believe if we could win the framing issue with just exist polls Kerry would already be out there.

If we do go with exist polls though we need examples of Republicans using exist polls in the past. We also need examples from other countries as well. It's a tough issue to base everything on. There might be a way though. It just needs to be a stronger case.

[Red State Blues]

13. A possible framing direction

First they talked about possible 4000 vote discrepancies and correctly pointed out that it wouldn't change the outcome. The numbers have gone up and up but it still "wouldn't change the election". Now with the Berkley study we're looking at a possible 260K vote swing in Florida but of course, "it's still not enough to affect the outcome." I don't know about you guys but to me, "We know the accuracy of the vote +/- 260,000 votes" doesn't quite cut it for me! He said all the votes would be counted, what's so bad about following through with his promise, for Democracy, for America. Even if it validates B*'s presence in the White House we deserve to have confidence in our electoral process.

[noamnety]

2. The Ukraine gives us a good cover

"In view of the concerns over the election in the Ukraine, it has occured to a large number of Americans that much of the complaints about that election were true in our own election as well. So we are asking that the same measures being demanded by the US to ensure the Ukraine elections were fair should be used here as well."

And then use the quotes by the republicans as much as possible to make the case. We can also use their quotes in the local races they are contesting.

[bush_is_wacko]

5. You got it!

Just make sure you get it to someone that won't make haste for the shredder!

[global1]

15. You've Got the Framing Issue Nailed, But Right Now Someone has to.....

catalog every comment and quote by *Co's administration and every Repub that has made any comment on the Ukraine election. I said it earlier in the day - we need to use the Repubs words on the Ukraine election to hang them on the U.S. election.

[scurvy_n_disastrous]

4. ditto-UKRAINE AND EXIT POLL historical ACCURACY, plus

all the other stuff: Berkeley, Dr Freeman, ignatzmouse's analysis in NC, etc...
But Ukraine is straight out of the republicans' mouth: Just see Powell and Lugar's statemennts.

[ohtransplant]

6. The real pros need to step up and soon.

There are a lot of folks doing great work but it's time for the professionals.

Instead of waiting for us to prove election fraud before stepping in, the MSM (in addition to K.O.)need to investigate and dedicate some resources to give this legs. Maybe it'll have to be up to outsiders like the BBC if our media doesn't have the intestinal fortitude.

The Democratic party also need to step up - to investigate, stir the pot, and challenge the process and the results. They can start at the bottom - at the local level so Kerry maintains a low profile and deniability.

Moderate repubs in Congress have a pig in this poke also. They're already taking a beating from the right and we haven't even started a second term. I think if there were enough momentum, they'd jump on the bandwagon but don't expect them to drive.

Framing the issue is dicey. There are land mines everywhere. I think it should be based on the idea that our elections are the foundation of democracy. If we can't depend on our foundation, how long will it take to fall? Today it's one party vs. another. Tomorrow it's even bigger.

[AnIndependentTexan]

10. actually what you just said is pretty good on framing the issue

Basically the way that I mean framing the issue is creating the talking points. One of the things I learned from this election and watching it closely is with Karl Rove republicans were able to frame every issue of the election.

I don't like how they did it, but some parts of that might have worked. I liked what you said:

"If we can't depend on our foundation, how long will it take to fall? Today it's one party vs. another. Tomorrow it it's even bigger."

I think we can work off of that. Basically what you just said opens up to Checks and Balances. Because of their control they have majority of everything. This means that we have no checks and balances. Our democracy was built on these principles. Without them we are even closer to not having a democracy. We just need to build on it. I may be wrong on this, but I think it could be very good on creating talking points.

[ohtransplant]

11. I can hear the music faintly in the background.

It's getting louder..and louder.

Bootom line. It needs to become a movement. Not just with people like us - but on Mai Street.

God Bless America.

[Oak2004]

12. It *is* a movement

There are many many Americans on our side.

There are, after all, a mere 27% or so who are actually happy with what's going on.

But everyone is waiting for someone else to tell them what to do.

Stop waiting.

We need local organization. It's at the local, not national, level that we can act most powerfully. Everyone here can help create that organization, by organizing their own local democracy groups. Keep the agenda broad, in order to include everyone (including some Republicans) who are with us. Use the groups to spread the word of what is really happening to your neighbors, along with the encouragement that we can change things. Start right away by taking action -- begin a simple boycott, ask people to put small signs in their windows, demonstrate outside your local elections office if you have BBV. When something happens that calls for larger demonstrations, or to raise money, or anything else fast, you'll know who to call.

Back in the '60s we could organize a demonstration in a matter of minutes, because activists used telephone trees. We need to become latter-day "minutemen" again

If you don't know enough people to start organizing, go to http://www.meetup.com, sign up for relevant groups, and get to know the people in your neighborhood that you need to know.

[ohtransplant]

17. Already on it.

and I agree that it literally starts at the grass roots - but you and I and 59,000 DUers, our friends, and families aren't enough. My point is this can't stop because an election is over (if it is). There are already good things happening like AAR but obviously much work is ahead.

We and people like us need to engage those who don't care, don't understand, or are misinformed. Our elected leaders need to stand and fight rather than fear being labeled as obstructionist or unpatriotic. And this administration ( and those who voted for them)must be forced to face it's record and the effects on American lives.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Oak2004]

18. It would be wonderful if our elected leaders stood and fought, and

I will continue to pressure mine to do so (you'd think Sanders, Jeffords, and Leahey might be able to find a spinal column among them), but it is not necessary that they do so. I can think of several instances in my lifetime where the people drove the train, and a few politicians hopped onto the caboose at the last minute to avoid being left at the station.

And, actually, 50,000 DUers plus family and friends, and their families and friends, and so on and so forth quickly adds up to a very impressive force. Don't underestimate the power here. I do think we're changing the nation, and the world, here.

[knowbody0]

7. also

we need to know that kerry's 20 years experience in elections, his expertise in law and in the constitution, give him a deeper, closer perspective on the situation. his lawyers no doubt are busy examining the facts and probabilities.
this silence, the coded messages, leave us frustrated to say the least, but with the experiences of 2000, kerry must have had a plan B. edwards as well.

[buddysmellgood]

8. I agree, we need a stronger case. I think we are close, but we need to

be able to show that the county that locked down its courthouse due to a nonexistant terror threat, actually messed with the vote. Or something on that level.
I understand that the tens of thousands of complaints stated under oath, could be enough to show people were denied their right to vote as stated in the constitution. In that case, I heard that Ohio's electors do not get to vote. I'm not clear on what happens in that case.

[politicasista]

9. Present strong evidence.

If you can get through to the passive campaign people.

[jamboi]

14. GO TO JohnnKerry.com & co-sign on health care bill. It'll Encourage him!!

[delphine]

16. Waiting for strong evidence

is all well and good, but there comes a time when someone needs to step up and say something.

The Kerry campaign people have been letting the greens and libertarians and Nader run with this because it serves their purpose without them having to say it was stolen.

Then if the votes just aren't there, they don't look really bad.

Except for a couple of things:

(a) you don't have to say it's stolen to say you want to make sure all the votes are counted correctly

(b) Nader and the glibs are not able to press the issue because they really don't have a leg to stand on in a state that requires a really good reason for a recount.

(c) The whole thing will go down the tubes if Kerry et al don't step in.

(d) Kerry's support is eroding because he has not stood up to the theft and fraud and manipulation of OUR votes. He says he has our back, but he didn't stand up for himself during the campaign, and he's not standing up for us now. Frankly I don't care what repukes say about him if he steps up. Standing firm for your convictions goes a long way with lefties, too.

It's high time for Kerry to step in.

Perhaps all what everyone seems to think is a smokescreen is really just Kerry not wanting to pursue this any further.

I don't know. But his "strategy" right now is really to walk a high wire - on one side is us getting really pissed off, and the other side is whatever repercussion he might face if he asks for recounts, etc.

He can't stay up there forever.