Glimpse into the mind of a young ohio bush voter.

[RawMaterials]

Yesterday i was out with some old college acquaintance's, the election came up(very easy with me) and i asked whom they voted for here are there response's, age, and vague reasoning. This should help us understand what is needed to get this kind of voter next time. there ages range between 21-23 male, smart, athletic, but not "into" politics or news.

note, this was in a car ride home i didn't have time to relay get into a discussion and set them straight or open up there minds to reality.
but this is still good info to work with.


The first male, said he was undecided all the way up to election day, and went with bush. here were the reasons, first "I knew what bush track record was and what to expect, but not with Kerry." "Kerry could have gotten elected and just removed all the troops from Iraq, and then one week later we would be getting bombed".

The second male, said he didn't watch any debates(thats when i chimed in so you voted for bush, because there would have been no way if you watch the debates you could have voted for him, he laft)his main reason for voting for bush is that he never relay new what Kerry stood for, and didn't want to vote for the "anybody but bush logic".

I started to get into economic things and how bush is running up deficits, and the second male stated that most of the recession was Clinton's fault. i just about died, i quickly chimed in about greenspan and interest rates and how Clinton did his job as a president and that was to create a surplus and control spending that the other market factors were out of his control (mostly). this enlightened him.

so how do the democrats fix this, I think they need to start to get dirty they need to relay attack the Republicans. they also need to make sure they have a candidate that people can understand and identify with.

granted these guys didn't know allot about whats going on but it looks like there the norm. I also feel that they might have been heavily influenced by there parents, and are not quite ready to be informed and make critical decisions on their own. There is hope for voters like this because they are very bright.

[kcwayne]

1. Just some friendly advice

When you have a low post count, you really (not relay) should run your post through a spell checker at a minimum. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are so poor that you could easily be mistaken for a lurking freeper, who are invariably literacy challenged.

Edit: Oops! I screwed up, a case of the kettle calling the pot black.

[RawMaterials]

4. I know i have horrible spelling

but spell checkers don't catch spellings that are correct but still the wrong word for the contexts. hopefully people can take the meaning of the post, and not get hung up about spelling and grammar.

[Dr.Phool]

6. My spell checker

Keeps saying to use "Sanitarium" instead of Santorum!

Try it.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

5. And that would be "invariably"

not invariable.

[kcwayne]

7. Correct you are.

[Straight Shooter]

11. Just some friendly advice here, too

"... who invariable are literacy challenged."

Umm, the correct word is "invariably."

[liberal N proud]

2. That about sums up the mentality of the bush lovers

The believed all they saw on FAUX and CNN

[dogtag]

10. It's even worse than FAUX and CNN...

many voters only listen to right wing radio because in most markets, it's the only game in town. I was shocked to learn how many people don't watch any 'political' TV, only sitcoms or special interest stuff like NASCAR, home decorating or American Chopper, etc. No exposure to news at all. As bad as FAUX is, they at least have the token 'liberal' such as Juan Williams and Alan Combes, not that they are able to add much to the conversation.

There's a huge pool out there that doesn't read newspapers or magazines and doesn't watch any news/politics on TV. They only have second hand information from their so called 'informed' family or friends or the babbling liars on right wing radio. Watch a debate? You've got to be kidding. That would interfere with wrestling or something equally important!

[Name removed]

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[YellowDoginthehouse]

3. By fixing the educational system

You can't teach compound-complex subjects to one clause thinkers. Until we raise the educational bar in this country, we're going to be stuck with dumb voters.

If you compare the red states and blue states with public school rank, it'll really open your eyes. The problem is lack of education.

[Doohickie]

12. Yeah, the public school thing kind of bugs me.

I see it playing out like this:

If the people are ignorant, they will more readily vote for Republicans.

Republicans in power realize this, and *purposely* sabotage the public school system.

In so doing, they end up with a nation of dolts.

Sure, they stay in power, but the country collapses in its own ignorance.

But they won't care, because any wealth that does exist has been diverted to the Republican leadership and their cronies.




Make this the new meme; the new Common Sense: "The Greater Good is served when the greatest number of people benefit."

[RevCheesehead]

17. Or, in Star Trek speak,

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - or the one."

I know, but hey - it speaks the same message in a language some may comprehend. And before anyone quotes Kirk's "because the need of the one outweighed the needs of the many," please remember that was the exception, not the rule.

[Name removed]

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[IndyOp]

55. Public school vs. Home schooling

I don't have the reference, but heard a few months back that while a sizable proportion (80%) of kids who attend public schools believe that "government is just too complex to understand" hardly any home-schooled kids believe this (8%).

I teach college-aged students and, personally, believe that an awful lot of what they learn in public school is how to be passive in the presence of 'authority figures' (except, of course, when they need to attack in order to get those 3 points on the exam that they are just certain they deserve).

[Name removed]

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[Ganja Ninja]

8. Maybe they'll figure it out on their way to Iraq. n/t

[RawMaterials]

9. Or the welfare line when they graduate and cant find job and

cant pay off the student loans they had to take out, because school has raised tuition every year 10% for the last 4 years.

[Straight Shooter]

13. "God will provide."

And if God doesn't provide, well, Jesus still loves them.

[RawMaterials]

14. what i want to work on here is how do we reach these people

You cant sit down and discuss politics, budgets, world perception, globalization, welfare, and SS. we need simple marketing to reach the simpler population. we need to make it so apparent that the republicans don't give a Sh*t about the average worker, American.

[Name removed]

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[KoKo]

15. Look the poster is correct. I have Repug friends who are well educated

who would say the same thing as the the college acqaintances of the poster and it's because all they do is watch Fox or CNN for news.

It's the media and the control of the newspapers. The people I have known for years have become single minded since the media control. I used to be able to have discussions with these folks which I've known for 20 years, but I could see during the Clinton years with the rise of attack media that they became more close minded. Actually started to attack me because I defended Clinton. Yet these same folks could discuss Poppy and his policies and laugh about what a fool he was even though they supported him. But, after the Coulters and the other raving maniacs started somehow these friends changed. I became the person to attack. Several of them got hooked on Limbaugh and others got hooked on the MSNBC lineup during the Impeachment. It ruined their ability to think about anything else but "enemies."

I've had to break off contact with these people and leave it to a Christmas Card and a Birthday Card. They weren't the type of people to read The Nation or watch Bill Moyers in the first place but there was more discussion on TV and NPR at least hadn't turned Right Wing...so some opposing viewpoints slipped in.

We can work as hard as we want to try to convince folks differently, but until we get some Fairness back in the media we will be hollering into the wind...

[RawMaterials]

19. would it be pointless to try and get T.Kerry

to buy a national TV station? would it just get censored by the FCC.
A little Birdie told me that the FCC was going to go after Satellite next.

[rox63]

21. Maybe Gore and Edwards should try it

Very shortly, neither will be in any elected office, and both will have a lot of money and free time. Maybe they should get together and start a liberal TV network.

[RawMaterials]

23. we need democracy in our media n/m

[Name removed]

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[laruemtt]

16. just curious as to why you think these guys are "smart"?

[Locrian]

18. what kind of family?

Sounds like they "voted for dad". Read George Lakoffs book on "Dont Think of an Elephant". Chapter one is here:

http://www.chelseagreen.com/images/DTE_Sampler.pdf

Basically he says that there are two groups and they all hinge on the view of the family. One is authoritarian (ie the repugs), sees in black and white, doesnt question, wants to punish, thinks helping the poor is enabling, etc. The other sees shades of gray, is nuturing, basically the opposite in terms of each other.

Explains why the right can love the death penalty, hate abortion, tax breaks to rich, tax the poor etc.


Then of couse they could just be stupid kids etc...

[NCvoter]

20. i laughed

at the word laft.

[RawMaterials]

22. this reminds me of what my wife is studding right now

logical fallacies ....its interesting how much of this shows up in politics and debate.

[Name removed]

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[Doohickie]

25. I hate abortion

But I don't think it should be banned.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

24. We all need to ask Bush voters why they voted the way they did.

Start writing it down and keep track of it.

[Nordic]

26. this is exactly why THE MEDIA IS THE PROBLEM

The media is not going its job, it doesn't even know its job anymore.

The media is now the enemy of this country.

[Name removed]

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[Nordic]

45. then what would you call it?

We have four pillars of democracy in this country. One of them is the press.

If the press is derelict in its duty, it's the same as, say, the military being derelict in its duty.

The democracy fails without the free press.

So if they are failing democracy due to their corporate whoredom, then they are the problem, they are what is failing America.

Therefore they are the enemy of democracy.

Fix them and the other problems in this country will fix themselves

[Starlight]

49. I agree. I think correcting the media problem is even more important

than the voting problems. Both are vitally important, of course, but if the media was doing its job, there's no way voting irregularities & *'s crazy policies & incompetent appointments would go unchallenged.

[Name removed]

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[GetTheRightVote]

28. It is nice to know that Demo are being acknowledge as greate thinkers

but we are people of the heart and welfare of others come easily to us, so power to the people and more power to the vote.

[Carolab]

29. I had a recent discussion with a Bush voter who said

he felt that changing presidents in "midstream" sent the wrong message to "the enemy". These guys don't even know who "the enemy" really is. Start there. I did--spent two hours informing this cluck about PNAC, the Bush-Bin Laden connections, etc. and also told him about Hijacking Catastrophy and the Bushco connections to Pakistan. His position was that we needed the borders and that's why we let Pakistan go on the nuclear arms sales and I told him that it was all about the pipeline through Afghanistan and if he didn't believe me he could find out about it by watching Hijacking Catastrophy and seeing that the military bases all follow the pipeline exactly. You need to get these people onto the net and point them to the right sites. Get them off the MSM crap they have been hearing and get them to the truth.

[Name removed]

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[BlueCaliDem]

44. Kerry Lost, Mr. 11-Post-Freeper? The Election Is Over, Then?

All the States have counted all their ballots, and their Secretaries of State have certified the vote count already, then?

As for Fahrenheit 9/11...You've Seen It? If so, isn't that breaking some sort of twisted Oath of RWers, or even treason to their Nationalist Agenda? Have the RW leaders already garnered themselves a Politburo, or Gestapo group to herd their "straying" flock back under control?

If not...You have NO right to criticize that what you have NO knowledge of--IF you want to appear half credible.

If you have seen Fahrenheit 9/11, point out to me where exactly Michael Moore's stretched the truth to the breaking point--and you can't obfuscate your answer with typical freeper retorts that not only stretch the truth of facts to the breaking points, but are outright lies, and proven to be so, time and again.

Oh, and do remember, will you please, that Fahrenheit 9/11 is a DOCUMENTARY, and documentaries are by design, information based on the film makers personal perception/belief/opinion of the subject.

To me, were it not for Fahrenheit 9/11, we would've never known that Bush sat like a deer caught in the headlights on 9/11, since that footage was suppressed by what you RWers love to rant "the liberal media", and that even more than the still ( and this is mind boggling to me! ) over 40% of the American people believe that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the WTC attack.

Now, I ask ya...If there was such a thing as a "liberal media bias"--which there isn't--why would liberals try to brainwash Americans into believing Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the WTC attack on 9/11, and feeding the deceptive perception that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Iraqis and NOT Saudis, with the last remaining of the four of the 19 being of Egyptian nationality?

There was mass hysteria in the United States, alright...and it all came from, and was fed by, the ultra right, to the right of right, rightwing, Republican owned, and operated media.

[Nordic]

46. I love the smell of fresh troll!

and especially when these so-called "people" who obviously haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11 decide to comment on it.

Go see the movie, fuckwad, and get back to us

[Name removed]

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[Straight Shooter]

32. Are you aware that you're [sic] little rant ... example of ... illiteracy

Proofread post before flaming.

Anyway, who cares what the WSJ reports? The WSJ is a piece of trash except for its financial section. They've been riding their own coattails for way too long now. Journalistic dinosaurs.

edit: I try to read the content of posts without judging the literacy or lack thereof of the writer. We are not all privy to a solid education, and dyslexia can be a rotten row to hoe. Maybe RawMaterials has gifts which are not apparent but just as valid as the overrated ability to spell and punctuate.

And the WSJ can kiss my didactic arse.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Nordic]

47. Will Godfrey make it to 13 posts?

something tells me it's an unlucky number for him

[Nordic]

48. Nope. I sorta figured

Thanks, mods!

[Straight Shooter]

43. If WSJ wants to play "more literate than thou," FreeRepublic awaits

There's so much ammunition on both sides of the aisle. WSJ has no room to talk. Their "hero" is a certain bozo whom they hold in esteem for playing the role of El Stupido.

Kudos for knowing the accurate expression is "couldn't care less."

A friendly wave to you and RawMaterials.

[Gyre]

41. How can you describe them as 'smart'?

There's nothing there except a few all-too-common dim bulbs.

BTW, what are they into? Let's guess...hmmm...sports and females! Am I right?

This is the group who judges who they want for president by who they most would like to sit around and shoot the shit with. Not smart, no depth. Some would say, no souls.

Gyre

[third_culture]

50. get informed

First I want to say that I don't like Bush, and if I was American I would have voted for Kerry, but you have got to do your research. And please, if you're going to make statements like this, you've got to know how to spell.
I'm a journalism student, so I read, A LOT. Newspapers from all over the world, The Economist, Harpers, The New Yorker, New Internationalist, and yes, The Wall Street Journal. I saw their comment about your post. That's how I got here.
I'm Canadian, liberal, and so I agree with what you're trying to say, but I just want to offer some advice. You say " granted these guys didn't know a lot about what's going on, but it looks likr they're the norm." It would seem you fit into that category as well. I'm not here to chew you out, or tell you you're wrong, but you should really look into the reasons why you dislike Bush. You may not like what you find... I sure didn't... because nobody likes to see that the reasons for which they were opposed to something were the result of left wing propaganda (we do it too).
Being left-wing without fully understanding the moderate (or 'right') perspective is unproductive and only creates more division.

[newyawker99]

51. Hi third_culture!!

Welcome to DU!!

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

52. Most americans are not into issues.

They vote on personalities and that's why dems have to make personal attacks on bush. Lord knows we have plenty of ammo. But most dems won't do it. I've heard it a million times. "We don't need to sink to their level - we can win on issues alone"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OnionPatch]

53. It's the right wing radio

I swear! I could have told this story myself. Whenever I go home to Ohio, I hear the same sort of stuff from my old friends. They've been listening to Limbaugh.

The only way we are going to win is get some radio ourselves. Air America is a good start. And sorry, NPR is good for the choir but they will do nothing to educate the kind of people we're talking about here. These people do not listen to public radio. EVER.

Howard Stern is great for these types and I think most of them would find Randi Rhodes really entertaining. But it's still not enough. They have something like 600 hours per day compared to our 40!!!

We need more liberals ranting OUR rants on the radio because it's what these guys are listening to.

[BlueInRed]

54. Thanks for this

This poster's experience echoes what many undecideds I talked to said.

Whether these voters should have done their homework better begs the question. As far as I'm concerned, if getting people like Bush out of power means bending over backwards to make sure our message is crystal clear to persuadable voters in purple states, then it is worth the extra effort.

Understanding why some persuadable voters went the other way is the key to winning in spite of vote fraud. We need enough voters on our side to overcome the Diebolds and Murdochs of the world. And from the people I've talked to who could've gone either way, it was a question of trust and voting for the devil they knew over the one they didn't. That is a problem we can solve and should put in the effort to solve, regardless of whether Democrats consider these voters ill-informed. A campaign's job is to inform, and we could have done a better job of informing swing voters of Kerry's own vision, not just the anti-Bush stuff.

[jsascj]

56. Well, as far as I'm concerned

There is absolutely no justifiable reason for ANYONE to vote for this dumbass...

My dog could do a better job than he did. Yes, he's a known quantity but look at what we all now know...he's a thug, a liar and he is about as bright as Rainman, actually even that's a stretch.

I sincerely hope that there really was fraud. Otherwise, I don't hold out any hope at all for the 60M people in this country who actually voted for this moron. Scares the crap out of me!